Moorings in London

[Wanted]

The root of the problem lies in two places.

 

1) The planning system that restricts the building of new accommodation. Until we build enough homes to meet the demand from the population, people will have to compete with each other to buy what eactually exists. This forces the price up and the richest win. The people who lose (or who can't/won't play that game in the first place) end up scratching around squatting, boating, caravaning sofa-surfing etc

 

2) This effect is amplified by population growth. It is in any government's interest to grow their population so immigration policy is usually arranged to support population growth.

 

There are no problem-free nswers.

 

MtB

Assuming that everyone wants to buy.

 

I think that pressure could be relieved by either commandeering empty property that is unused for over three months or making people pay huge taxes to keep housing empty. Then we can bring back proper regulation as Mike (Blackrose) says and move away from this unsustainable need to own beyond our means.

[Delta9]

Private property is theft. Use it or lose it.

[zubeye]

Is there really a crisis? Everything is in high demand and short supply, and therefore expensive in central London. Car parking. Property. Moorings. tickets to the west end, Is this a crisis or economics? Every global financial center is the same. It's not inherent to UK policy. Unless you count city tax breaks.

 

You wouldn't expect to drive into zone 1 and get a free parking spot in a car, so I don't understand the entitlement about inner London moorings. I'm a newbie so apologies if I am misunderstanding things. For what it's worth, my experience of cruising in central London was excellent. Plenty of spaces in less popular spots and double berthing is socially acceptable in the popular spots. You don't go to London for water views and privacy after all.

Edited August 25, 2014 by zubeye

[MtB]

Assuming that everyone wants to buy.

 

 

No not everyone wants to buy, but virtually everyone wants accommodation. The root problem is too many people chasing too little accommodation. The proportions of owned and rented accommodation is a side issue.

 

ISTR some stats saying appoximately 10% of the accommodation in the UK is vacant at any one time. This included property temporarily vacant while up for sale/rent. I doubt forcing even the long term vacant stuff will make much of a difference.

 

MtB

[Lady Muck]

Is there really a crisis? Everything is in high demand and short supply, and therefore expensive in central London. Car parking. Property. Moorings. tickets to the west end, Is this a crisis or economics? Every global financial center is the same. It's not inherent to UK policy. Unless you count city tax breaks.

 

You wouldn't expect to drive into zone 1 and get a free parking spot in a car, so I don't understand the entitlement about inner London moorings. I'm a newbie so apologies if I am misunderstanding things. For what it's worth, my experience of cruising in central London was excellent. Plenty of spaces in less popular spots and double berthing is socially acceptable in the popular spots. You don't go to London for water views and privacy after all.

 

Yes there is a crisis. It's got considerably worse in the past five years, I have friends who rent private sector and rent hikes of £300 a month with no warning are not rare. It's nothing to do with entitlement. Everything is about making money, most of the new flats near me have been bought by Chinese investors who have never been here. The warehouses near me that are housing people cheaply, Haringey wants them demolished to build another development of luxury apartments. We are building investments for foreigners, not family homes, this to me is wrong.

[zubeye]

London is a global city fuelled by making money, yes that is true. I don't like it, and I'm not apologising for it, I'm just pointing a fact. I don't live in London for this reason - it's all about money.

 

For a long time, London has been fuelled by investments for foreigners. Nothing very new there. One of the largest banks in the city is HSBC, a Chinese bank. The Premier football league is populated by foreign managers and players with rare exceptions. London is a separate country in many ways to the UK. Not just philosophically. Tax differences mean it is different in reality also. Go to New York, or Tokyo or Paris, and again these are global hubs.

Edited August 25, 2014 by zubeye

[Lady Muck]

I do fear we're gonna end up renting people wire cages to live in like they do in Kowloon. There is already someone renting out plywood boxes above a garage near me, seriously, my friend went to view what she thought was a warehouse apartment and got a shock.

[mark99]

One of the largest banks in the city is HSBC, a Chinese bank.

 

Really?

[Burgiesburnin]

Wanted........lHaving worked in housing in London for years I can assure you it is not 'silly' to surmise that there is an increase in people living on boats because of the housing crisis, in the same way as the thousands of end of garden garages and warehouses are being rented out as cheaper housing (still not cheap) and not forgetting the tents that people are living in in our woodland, parks and even roundabouts.

The options of paying a three grand deposit that you are unlikely to see again and a grand and a half rent a month on a shoebox above a kabab shop or a 5K cruiser rent free are fairly obvious.

I'm not sure how to read your posts but it seems as if you want there to be a problem so you can moan at boaters that differ from you rather than directing your ire towards the decision makers.

Either way, that's your choice, but please don't belittle the crippling reality of housing in London as 'silly'[

 

Did you read my post? I said that it is "silly and immature to say the least" to blame The London Council for not providing accomodation. London is not a jail and people are there of their own free will. The rents that London "demands" are London's and if you want the product then you must pay for it. Don't blame others because you can't have what you want. If someone is not happy to pay a supply and demand rent then its easy. Move. "Having worked in London housing for years" I am surprised you have not developed an understanding of this before now. Maybe if you had and had contributed differently in your position at "London housing"then the situation would now be different. But it's not.

The point of my original post was that due to the housing shortage/situation in London I would not feel confident cruising into London and being able to find a mooring spot.

Because of informstive and constructive posts in reply to my original post I feel reassured that the situation is not as bad as I

understood it to be. I would now feel fairly comfortable with cruising into London.

Edited August 25, 2014 by Burgiesburnin

[Wanted]

Oh dear, so you post a question about a holiday in 'living afloat' which seems to be half rant half question and then when you get a reply you call it silly and immature. If you are suggesting that by working for the last 10 years or so with some of the most disaffected homeless people, housing hundreds and supporting more is not enough, and I agree, then we would be more than happy for some help.

 

As so often happens when people talk about housing in London, you negate the personal aspects such as local connections, family, jobs, friends, schools, kids etc.

 

There are empty homes, second homes and homes being build for foreign investment. All of these things drive the demand, couple this with Landlords who will rent a shite hole out with zero safety and no comeback you start to get desperate and creative housing solutions. Some work, some don't.

 

London boating isn't as bad as all that but please don't rock up at 5pm in Camden expecting a space and then bemoan that London is full.

[MtB]

All of these things drive the demand, couple this with Landlords who will rent a shite hole out with zero safety and no comeback you start to get desperate and creative housing solutions.

 

This bit is a red herring in my opinion. What if the landlords made their shiteholes available free of charge? Or just gave them away to homeless people? Would it make any difference to the supply of accommodation available? Nope.

 

Same number of front doors, bedrooms, kitchens and bathrooms, it's just the flow of green pieces of paper that changed (to nick a term from H2G2). Made no difference to the housing shortage.

 

MtB

[Wanted]

 

This bit is a red herring in my opinion. What if the landlords made their shiteholes available free of charge? Or just gave them away to homeless people? Would it make any difference to the supply of accommodation available? Nope.

 

Same number of front doors, bedrooms, kitchens and bathrooms, it's just the flow of green pieces of paper that changed (to nick a term from H2G2). Made no difference to the housing shortage.

 

MtB

To be fair MTB, you just cut off the bit of my post that does effect demand, I wasn't saying that hooky landlords do, they just push people towards being more creative.

[peterboat]

We were in London in May walked from Padington along Regents and found no free spaces up to Camden town market I feel their are not enough moorings along that stretch. If more moorings were added the policing of the moorings would have to be effective to stop overstaying. Also for me their is the worry of where is all that sewage and rubbish going as well. I know I go on about it but the reality is we do not need more housing but less people in this very small country, otherwise one day their will be no canals because they will be built over for affordable housing. Not a pretty thought...................................................

 

Peter

[MtB]

We were in London in May walked from Padington along Regents and found no free spaces up to Camden town market I feel their are not enough moorings along that stretch. If more moorings were added the policing of the moorings would have to be effective to stop overstaying. Also for me their is the worry of where is all that sewage and rubbish going as well. I know I go on about it but the reality is we do not need more housing but less people in this very small country, otherwise one day their will be no canals because they will be built over for affordable housing. Not a pretty thought...................................................

 

Peter

 

 

It's 'there', not 'their' in this context...

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself

 

But I disagree with your point. There is plenty of space for peeps to live in. have yo ever looked down on the millions of acres of national parks from an aeroplane?

 

As a society we choose not to allow building of homes in it. Just as we choose not to fill in the canals.

 

MtB

[nicknorman]

There is plenty of space for peeps to live in. have yo ever looked down on the millions of acres of national parks from an aeroplane?

 

As a society we choose not to allow building of homes in it.

Ah yes, we have prime "new town" real estate up here, ripe for development. Just don't forget to bring yer wooly jumpers!

 

[Thorfast]

 

Really?

 

HSBC = Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation

[MtB]

I took Mark99 to be questioning the statement that HSBC was one of the largest banks in London, not that it was Chinese.

 

MtB

[mark99]

 

HSBC = Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation

 

Suggest you research the history. Does not matter what it's called. Originated from here, HQ in here. Owned by the shareholders not a country.

 

 

The Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation was founded by Scotsman Sir Thomas Sutherland in the then British colony of Hong Kong on 3 March 1865, and in Shanghai one month later, benefiting from the start of trading into China, including opium trading.

 

The Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited is a bank established and based in Hong Kong since 1865, when Hong Kong was a colony of the British Empire. It is the founding member of the HSBC Group and, since 1990, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the London-based HSBC Holdings P.L.C,.

Edited August 26, 2014 by mark99

[Thorfast]

 

Suggest you research the history. Does not matter what it's called. Originated from here, HQ in here. Owned by the shareholders not a country.

 

From their website........

 

The HSBC Group is named after its founding member, The Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited. It was established to finance the growing trade between China and Europe and was the inspiration of the Hong Kong Superintendent of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, Thomas Sutherland.

The bank first opened for business in Hong Kong, and was shortly followed by a second office in Shanghai. It became a pioneer of modern banking practices and to this day maintains its position as one of the foremost financial institutions in the dynamic markets of Asia-Pacific.

[mark99]

 

From their website........

 

The HSBC Group is named after its founding member, The Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation Limited. It was established to finance the growing trade between China and Europe and was the inspiration of the Hong Kong Superintendent of the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company, Thomas Sutherland.

The bank first opened for business in Hong Kong, and was shortly followed by a second office in Shanghai. It became a pioneer of modern banking practices and to this day maintains its position as one of the foremost financial institutions in the dynamic markets of Asia-Pacific.

 

 

Yeah but Hong Kong was British at the time. See my post above.

Edited August 26, 2014 by mark99

[Thorfast]

 

 

Yeah but Hong Kong was British at the time. See my post above.

 

The point is that it was an Asian based banking business until fairly recently, when they took over Midland Bank. They only moved their HQ to London in 1992.

[magnetman]

20,000 people on waiting list for council acomodation in Tower Hamlets. About 2000 spaces available in council accomodation. More people coming every minute. High reproduction rate.

 

Fill in the canals and build more flats

 

Oops

[MtB]

That's it. Blame immigration policy...

 

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

That's it. Blame immigration policy...

 

 

MtB

 

And enforce birth control

[MtB]

 

And enforce birth control

 

Oh yeah, that too.

 

Problem sorted.

 

Errr... now which political party proposes both these measures?

 

 

MtB