Buying a sailaway widebeam and fitting of the interior. Is this madness?

[Ral Duke]

Hi all,

So, myself an my partner are considering buying a 'sail-away' which will consist of: Shell - primed and blacked, Windows, plywood floor, battoned -out and spray insulation, electrics in situ (inverter, fuse box, 240/24v).

 

I will also purchase a multi-fuel burner (4-5k) and install it.

 

Now, im considering doing The plumbing, gas, and installing partition walls/kitchen/bathroom with one other person full time for 2 months and moving to part-time for the following 6. We have budgeted 8k for the whole build and we will be purchasing second hand items to lower the cost I.e a kitchen with appliances can be obtained for >500 on eBay.

 

 

 

I have been dabbling in carpentry for 5 years, I have enough tools and access to a industrial work shop with a CNC machine (yes, that's right floral cut-out partitions!) I have also been living on a boat that requires constant attention for three.

 

I can provide a break down of the projected costs but is 8k realistic?

 

One thing I know very little of is plumbing. Is 1.5k enough for a full water system cold/hot: Boiler (for shower only), accumulator, pumps, etc

 

I appreciate this question may invite the polemicists but lay off the pejorative answers!

 

Thank you in advance

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

I appreciate this question may invite the polemicists but lay off the pejorative answers!

 

Thank you in advance

 

Excellent - I'm out

 

Richard

[Paul C]

Are you going to paint the outside before winter? I'd get costs for that too.....

[Ral Duke]

Hi. Yeah, we are going to do it ourselves.

[Paul C]

OK No worries, personally I can see how you'd be keen to crack on with the interior but primer is NOT waterproof and every day which passes without top coat, the primer is less and less effective so I'd look at painting the shell as job #1. I guess you've a fair idea of how much paint you'd need, and the cost of the paint, and have come up with a paint scheme a little more interesting than 1 colour everywhere?

 

Looking again at post #1, its good to see you're starting out with 24V in mind. Does the sailaway already come with a battery bank and its wiring? The multitude of electrical components can turn out to be quite a large proportion of the costs, especially the wiring.

[Grace and Favour]

Hi. Yeah, we are going to do it ourselves.

Good, that must be the very first thing you do - Primer, as you will know, will absorb moisture.

 

I'd suggest paints/process - but assume you've already bottomed it

[GoodGurl]

maybe you should read Deans blog, he did a WB refit in 10 days, well impressed.

[Ally]

Potentially doable if you're very careful, but without knowing the exact sail away spec and your final spec, its a piece of string question. Personally I'd raise the budget, unless you can get some real deals.

24v? Why not 12v, far easier to find 12v pumps, etc than 24v.

You also didn't mention if the engine will be fitted. If not, you've not got a chance on that budget I'm afraid.

Are you including curtains, furniture, toilets etc in the budget? Batteries?

Sorry, just not enough info to stab at your costs.

Increase the budget though, you'll be surprised!

[David Mack]

Hi all,

So, myself an my partner are considering buying a 'sail-away' which will consist of: Shell - primed and blacked, Windows, plywood floor, battoned -out and spray insulation, electrics in situ (inverter, fuse box, 240/24v).

 

And engine and sterngear?

 

Have you got a mooring or hardstanding? You can't really CC and fitout at the same time.

[Ral Duke]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses. I'm just beginning to look through the blogs now.

 

The sail-away comes with a 2x Leisure batteries, inverter, fuse box and wiring. I will be installing light fittings, sockets, etc etc.

 

As for colour initially we'll have two colours to get the paint down fast.

 

 

Any ideas for how much it is appropriate to budget for a full water system!?

[MtB]

Hi all,

So, myself an my partner are considering buying a 'sail-away' which will consist of: Shell - primed and blacked, Windows, plywood floor, battoned -out and spray insulation, electrics in situ (inverter, fuse box, 240/24v).

 

I will also purchase a multi-fuel burner (4-5k) and install it.

 

Now, im considering doing The plumbing, gas, and installing partition walls/kitchen/bathroom with one other person full time for 2 months and moving to part-time for the following 6. We have budgeted 8k for the whole build and we will be purchasing second hand items to lower the cost I.e a kitchen with appliances can be obtained for >500 on eBay.

 

 

 

I have been dabbling in carpentry for 5 years, I have enough tools and access to a industrial work shop with a CNC machine (yes, that's right floral cut-out partitions!) I have also been living on a boat that requires constant attention for three.

 

I can provide a break down of the projected costs but is 8k realistic?

 

One thing I know very little of is plumbing. Is 1.5k enough for a full water system cold/hot: Boiler (for shower only), accumulator, pumps, etc

 

I appreciate this question may invite the polemicists but lay off the pejorative answers!

 

Thank you in advance

 

 

Ok, as no-one has yet mentioned it, with boat work there is a 'rule of thumb'. Take your best, most accurately calculated estimates and double them.

 

So by this rule your project will cost £16k and will take four months.

 

My own experiences suggest tripling gets you closer to the truth, by the time you've really purchased EVERYTHING (as opposed to most of it) and truly finished it (as opposed to 'nearly finished' it.)

 

 

MtB

And engine and sterngear?

 

 

 

Isn't the engine and sterngear what makes it a sailaway?

 

 

 

Have you got a mooring or hardstanding? You can't really CC and fitout at the same time.

 

 

Excellent point. Hard standing is far superior for fitting out but involves one extra craning operation, to add to the unbudgeted expense over-run.

 

 

MtB

[Robbo]

I think that's all possible for 8K, especially as your doing yourself. just read up on the BSS and RCD to be compliant.

 

1.5k for a boiler is doable, but if you want something better than a diesel preheater. Budget around 3-4k for a diesel Pressure Jet type system. Gas boiler will be cheaper if just wanting hot water and not central heating.

[ditchcrawler]

I think that's all possible for 8K, especially as your doing yourself. just read up on the BSS and RCD to be compliant.

 

1.5k for a boiler is doable, but if you want something better than a diesel preheater. Budget around 3-4k for a diesel Pressure Jet type system. Gas boiler will be cheaper if just wanting hot water and not central heating.

Interesting, I have just been catching up on George Clark's amazing spaces where two brothers try to fit out a Narrowboat for 8K and couldn't quite manage it. That was a very minimal fit out open plan with just a toilet/shower room

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

what is your time scale? can you move on with an airbed, porti pottie and camping stove ? Do a bit every weekend and enjoy the waterway. Are you keeping your house? I refited Merlin over 12 months and altered the design as we found some things not right. You could use a domestic gas centrsal heating boiler if you have enough mains power available. Do a power audit and work out what size of battery bank and recharging system you need. Use plastic water pipe as copper can rot with acid water as we found out.

[peterboat]

Yes I think you will struggle at 8k I would put in a solid fuel stove with backboiler you can add to it later. Also at this stage its easier to make it gravity add a caorifier etc etc, Your electrics you need to work out everything then barter with Edmundsons or some other electrical factor wood the same Good luck and I hope you manage on the budget

 

peter

[Phil Ambrose]

A chap rocked up with a fat boat sailaway to our marina 2 years ago and as he was a brickie he in tended getting all his building mates (chippies, sparks and plumbers) to all get stuck in and as he said "Bish Bosh 2 months job done" that was as I said 2 years. ........

Good luck with your build.

Phil

[DeanS]

We spent 4K and did the following:

 

1. gas Morco heater £200

2. Water pump £70

3. Gas cooker £200 on auction

4. Sink £50 off Ebay

5. Flooring £200

6. All the ply walls, (6mm, ceilings 4mm).

7. Kitchen

8. Full size shower off Ebay £200 with the taps etc

9. Mattresses for beds

10. Sofas x 2 from IKEA

11. Coal stove 7kW - £150 off the forum

12. Thetford casette toilet £200

 

We moored in a marina, so didnt need any 12V systems...just used a temporary battery which lived near the water pump for a while. We added batts and 12V drop down lighting later...used 220V lighting/lamps in the beginning.

 

We initially painted the boat with a protective metal paint. Later I sanded that down, added undercoat and repainted it (purple) for £60 .from B&Q

 

Have used a Chinese invertor...3kW for 2yrs. Still going strong. £240

Added 920W solar panels and 2x30A MPPT controllers.

Added 6 x 110AH batts

Bought a cheap Clarke gennie. 2.8kW - £250

 

Next project will be adding Calorifier, radiators etc.

 

 

ETA - If you want to build quickly, you need to have no one living on board, no need to sleep, a Screwfix and a wood merchant within walking distance, a fixed mooring with elec shorepower.

Edited August 6, 2014 by DeanS

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Hi all,

 

 

I will also purchase a multi-fuel burner (4-5k) and install it.

 

 

I can provide a break down of the projected costs but is 8k realistic?

 

 

I appreciate this question may invite the polemicists

 

 

 

I'll avoid the polemicism and instead just be didactic with some advice on where to focus on investment.

 

Installing a solid fuel stove cheaply may be possible if you are incredibly lucky and find all the right materials at the end of metaphorical passing rainbow(s)

 

However more usually, the correct stove, heat resistant back board, flue-pipe and chimney are not cheap, but looking through our incident database, installing a solid fuel stove incorrectly because wider budget constraints are applied to the stove some people have paid for later through the loss of the boat or their lives.

 

Solid fuel stoves and electrics are always at the top of the league table of causes of incidents. With stoves you have the risk of fire and of carbon monoxide poisoning so it is doubly important to avoid any element of getting-away-with-bodging.

 

A less than perfect stove installation may also cost you time and money concerning fuel use and maintenance. It may burn more fuel and may need more flue cleaning and tar removal.

 

And you mentioned gas work, so touching on another carpenter that had spent 24 years making an absolutely beautiful job of the woodwork and fittings on a dream boat, you should also be very cautious about any gas work and the cost of an incorrect installation. I recommend a Gas Safe registered fitter should be invested in.

 

Hope this helps you with the careful consideration of where to spend meagre funds

[Ral Duke]

We spent 4K and did the following:

 

1. gas Morco ......

Thanks for this. This is essentially the kind very of break down and approach similar to our own. Really helpful. We won't be sleeping on it for the first two months. Although, I may have the odd occasional nap.

 

Did you ever have anyone come and assess your progress - if so, what kind of approach did you take with this i.e from design stage or later in the build? Or would you say your fully capable?

 

Thanks

 

 

I'll avoid the polemicism and instead just be didactic with some advice on where to focus on investment.

 

Installing a solid fuel stove cheaply may be possible if you are incredibly lucky and find all the right materials at the end of metaphorical passing rainbow(s)

 

However more usually, the correct stove, heat resistant back board, flue-pipe and chimney are not cheap, but looking through our incident database, installing a solid fuel stove incorrectly because wider budget constraints are applied to the stove some people have paid for later through the loss of the boat or their lives.

 

Solid fuel stoves and electrics are always at the top of the league table of causes of incidents. With stoves you have the risk of fire and of carbon monoxide poisoning so it is doubly important to avoid any element of getting-away-with-bodging.

 

A less than perfect stove installation may also cost you time and money concerning fuel use and maintenance. It may burn more fuel and may need more flue cleaning and tar removal.

 

And you mentioned gas work, so touching on another carpenter that had spent 24 years making an absolutely beautiful job of the woodwork and fittings on a dream boat, you should also be very cautious about any gas work and the cost of an incorrect installation. I recommend a Gas Safe registered fitter should be invested in.

 

Hope this helps you with the careful consideration of where to spend meagre funds

Hi,

The sentiment of the aforementioned 'getting-away-with-bodging', and resulting death I do not take lightly and I appreciate the advice.

 

A friend of ours has previously installed a couple of multi-fuel burners on boats and is willing to advise/asses our work. In terms of Gas work, I will do what I can but yes, I will certainly invest in a Gas Safe registered fitter.

 

"Bish Bosh 2 months job done"

 

Marevellous. Thanks!

 

[Ral Duke]

what is your time scale? can you move on with an airbed, porti pottie and camping stove ? Do a bit every weekend and enjoy the waterway. Are you keeping your house? I refited Merlin over 12 months and altered the design as we found some things not right. You could use a domestic gas centrsal heating boiler if you have enough mains power available. Do a power audit and work out what size of battery bank and recharging system you need. Use plastic water pipe as copper can rot with acid water as we found out.

I have a futon which we will use to sleep on for a period and in all seriousness, we are young so porti-poti and camping stove is more than suitable and I'm glad to hear someone else suggest it.

 

We're moving from our house as we are both renting and are purchasing the vessel as our first place to live together. I think we will have on-shore power for 2 months and then borrow a generator.

 

As for plastic water pipes, I've recently read how they are a good idea due to fluctuations of heat and corrosion - thanks.

 

Power Audit - Yeah, that's something I will be doing. We plan to install LED light - strips (not excessively) etc in order to keep requirement down.

 

 

You could use a domestic gas centrsal heating boiler if you have enough mains power available.

 

We won't have mains power available for the first year but I'm going to look into this - We're going to buy a gas water heater (paloma?) for the sink and so, the boiler would solely be for the shower - I've just started to read about this so, as of yet, I'm not sure which is the best option in terms of boilers.

 

I did find a posting where someone recommended boiling a kettle and using a mug to pour the water over themselves - wonderful pragmatism.

 

 

[Ral Duke]

Interesting, I have just been catching up on George Clark's amazing spaces where two brothers try to fit out a Narrowboat for 8K and couldn't quite manage it. That was a very minimal fit out open plan with just a toilet/shower room

Even more interestingly; I'll actually be speaking to one of the brother's - Matt - tonight. I heard their starting point was a boat that had a completely burnt interior and they need to install electrics and the whole shabang. I think our project benefits from the boat being in good nick.

[dor]

The one thing I seriously underestimated the cost of was the solid wood, but then I did use a lot of oak.

 

If your boat is currently in primer and has been outside (or inside and pron e to condensation) I would seriously recommend taking it back to bare metal. As others have said, primer is porous and holds water and if you paint over it it will come up in blisters.

 

And take note of Rob's comments regarding the SF stove. Cheap second hand ones can often be dangerous and besides which, the flue will not be up to current standards.

[Polishicebreaker]

Interesting thread, does anyone have more info on the gas leak tester please?

Cheers

Interesting thread, does anyone have more info on the gas leak tester please?

Cheers

[Phil Ambrose]

Interesting thread, does anyone have more info on the gas leak tester please?

Cheers

Interesting thread, does anyone have more info on the gas leak tester please?

Cheers

Just search bubble tester, can be found at most chandlers and Ebay

Phil

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

To talk more on experiance, The first solid fuel stove (villager) was repositioned (another hole in the roof) then replaced with an antique Norwigian pipe stove 6 ft tall, Line the wall with glazed brick. We prefered porti potii to pump out as you can sling the casset into the back of the car to move to the elsan point, wheras you may have to go through a lock to turn the boat round for a pump out.