My boat has sunk in Kingston (1939 ww2 wooden motor cruiser)

[bizzard]

Ahoy Marcus. Unless they are collapsable and not of the ordinary rigid type, large water containers will not need pumping with air, its the volume of water they displace that gives them bouyancy, air inside makes no difference, they would would float just the same if air was sucked out and replaced by vacuum.

All the very best of luck with it. Regards bizzard.

[Marcuswarry]

Hi bizzard,

I think I see what you mean.. If they were insode the boat...

But attached around the keel on the outside?

Mx

[John Williamson 1955]

If they're full or partly full of water when you attach them, they're easier to handle in the water, then you can blow air in to remove the water, increasing their buoyancy.

[RLWP]

If they're full or partly full of water when you attach them, they're easier to handle in the water, then you can blow air in to remove the water, increasing their buoyancy.

 

Remembering to have the bung hole at the bottom

 

I wouldn't mess about with all this supplementary buoyancy - Fairstar is a boat and will float perfectly well once you have her wrapped and start pumping

 

Richard

[bizzard]

Once off the bottom it should gradually straighten up onto an even keel because of the engines weight and ballast and possibly a heavyish iron keel but will be very tender and will wallow when trodden on until a substantial volume of water is pumped out.

Edited August 4, 2014 by bizzard

[Marcuswarry]

Thanks guys!

 

Richard, the issue is that on the side that's more submerged, the polythene won't come high enough, to attach to anything... But when the boat is level... Then the extended polythene gunwale I've got at the ready, will attach more easily, and work much better.

 

I could maybe try and get her level, by having a boat each side and using winches cleverly to pull her over.... But a bit of buoyancy underneath I feel would help? Will call you in a bit!

 

The good news is that I've attached all the batons underwater now. Phew! That's the most grizzly bit completed at least!!

 

Marcus

X

[smileypete]

Pic of the current efforts on the deeper other side might help to get some suggestions, if you have any such photos.

 

How about staple the top of the plastic to a batten, then fix the batten across the cabin doorway? If the water is over the cabin roof some I'd have thought it's OK as long as it can't get in through openings. If there's a lot of debris floating around inside, a big 'basket' of chicken wire or weld mesh to put the pump intakes in could help prevent them blocking.

 

At a guess I'd say it really needs a 3"/1000lpm petrol pump as a minimum, anything on top is a bonus. IF the openings are reasonably well covered it should come up fine.

 

Agree with RWLP, don't worry about extra buoyancy, as the water level inside drops through pumping that'll create plenty of buoyancy, the boat will level up as it stands up onto its keel.

 

Anyway sounds like you're doing a great job wrapping it, and with the right amount of pumps it'll come up no problem.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 4, 2014 by smileypete

[Arthur Brown]

Actually I think you should contact the Kingston Divers ASAP and possible attend their meeting (near Tolworth Towers) on thursday evening. Offer then some pics and project sketches then ask for their suggestions, remember this is partly a training exercise for them,partly a PR exercise and partly a salvage job. However in all likelyhood they will have all the buoyancy you need plus all the underwater manpower you need plus probably all the pumps you want. They will also likely have all the dive boats etc that they will want to put the gear and people where they need to be.

[Marcuswarry]

Thanks Arthur! Just left them a message...

 

Can't post pictures from my phone annoyingly... I'll email them to richard... Richard, please may you post them on here richard?

 

FYI the ducks in the pictures are Egyptian Geece... And they they taking to pooing on my roof. Charming!

 

Marcus

X

[Marcuswarry]

Hmm... The ducks.. Are Geece?! Hmm... Well you know what I mean... Mx

Hmm... The ducks.. Are Geece?! Hmm... Well you know what I mean... Mx

[Marcuswarry]

So, today I'm sourcing large water containers... So I have that option too...

 

What shape, size & type are best please?

 

I was thinking large rectangular ones, would hold better against the hill... Than round ones... And ideally ones with decent handles, so the ropes can hold them very firmly...

 

In fact not ropes... I have straps and winches that would make them super tight to the hull.

 

Obviously the right type of container will make life easier... One that is likely to stay the right way up... So has something for the straps to go through top and bottom...

 

Arthur, I'm waiting to hear back from Kingston divers ... So trying to source my own stuff too. My friend has a compressor that we're going to pick up now... So all I'm missing are large containers!

 

Thanks again everyone for all your help!

 

Marcus

X

Hill = hull

[IanM]

The square tanks with cages around them are called IBC's. Knowing the technical name might help in your search

[churchward]

Far to far away in North Wales to be any practical use but I wish you and anyone helping good luck in raising the boat successfully. Have faith and lots of pumping capacity!

 

It will be worth all the effort the old girl looks a great boat when on top of the water.

[RLWP]

The square tanks with cages around them are called IBC's. Knowing the technical name might help in your search

 

And are, from memory, a metre cube. So, if Fairstar weighs 20 tons, you will need twenty to float her

 

Richard

[Marcuswarry]

Thank you ian, churchward & richard!

 

Richard, I think the boat should only be about 4 tonnes with the bulk of it under water, as the wood is neutral or even bouyant, and the only metal is the engine and a few steal bits.

 

I only want to create enough buoyancy for her to bob up a little bit and so she can level out... it'll then be easier to raise polythene gunwales... And steadier before pumping like mad.

 

Does that make sense?

 

So could try between four & 6 maybe... With equal numbers either side of course...

 

Marcus

[carlt]

A completely different method of raising FAIRSTAR was proposed by a neighbour while I was there. One that crossed my mind too.

 

Obtain two lifting strops. Dive down and work one under each end of the boat as far in as possible. Attach the ends to two large boats brought alongside FAIRSTAR then slowly apply some tension.

 

Slowly lift the boat over a number of hours so the water escapes the same way it got in towards the end. Once freeboard is obtained, sling in the pumps.

 

This seems more viable to me than wrapping the boat in plastic.

 

 

MtB

 

After the strops have popped out for the umpteenth time because you can't get them under far enough (especially with a boat shaped boat) you then go back to the tried and tested method of plastic and pumps, as long as you haven't ripped the bows off when the strops give way of course.

 

The potential for damaging one or more of the boats usually puts folk off volunteering theirs for the operation too.

 

I have refloated two boats in the past by lashing a work boat to it, filling the hold full of water until it is almost ready to sink itself and then pumping the water out, lifting the sunken boat enough to make it pumpable.

 

These were metal boats though and I would pretty much guarantee that a wooden boat like this one would not survive the effort.

Thank you ian, churchward & richard!

 

Richard, I think the boat should only be about 4 tonnes with the bulk of it under water, as the wood is neutral or even bouyant, and the only metal is the engine and a few steal bits.

Wooden boats are neither neutral nor bouyant.

 

When we raised Lucy there was only a couple of feet of water left in her when she finally started to float and this was with 4 empty IBCs in her hold.

[RLWP]

I'm not clear about the 'the plastic doesn't come above the water' bit Marcus. What are you using?

 

Are you using this stuff: https://www.macbuildingproducts.com/product_info.php?products_id=288&gclid=CjwKEAjwgYKfBRDvgJeylem9xDUSJACjeQ7ATZOMigs_yYIg8n-wv6R8KKq4K6rAg4YJfvtF7tYZBRoC2A3w_wcB

 

Which is 25 metres long by 4 metres wide. That should be plenty

 

Richard

Edited August 5, 2014 by RLWP

[Marcuswarry]

Thanks CarlT!

 

Richard, I'm using these:

 

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Polythene-Dust-Sheet-Roll-2x50m/p/154962

 

2m wide sadly. Humph.

[RLWP]

Ahhh...

 

That wasn't what I expected

 

Richard

[carlt]

Thanks CarlT!

 

Richard, I'm using these:

 

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Polythene-Dust-Sheet-Roll-2x50m/p/154962

 

2m wide sadly. Humph.

These are better than DPM because of their flexibility but, once you've got one of those on, it might be worth putting a DPM over the top of it but surely the gunwales aren't 2m below the water?

[luctor et emergo]

 

After the strops have popped out for the umpteenth time because you can't get them under far enough (especially with a boat shaped boat) you then go back to the tried and tested method of plastic and pumps, as long as you haven't ripped the bows off when the strops give way of course.

 

The potential for damaging one or more of the boats usually puts folk off volunteering theirs for the operation too.

 

I have refloated two boats in the past by lashing a work boat to it, filling the hold full of water until it is almost ready to sink itself and then pumping the water out, lifting the sunken boat enough to make it pumpable.

 

These were metal boats though and I would pretty much guarantee that a wooden boat like this one would not survive the effort.

 

Wooden boats are neither neutral nor bouyant.

 

When we raised Lucy there was only a couple of feet of water left in her when she finally started to float and this was with 4 empty IBCs in her hold.

Well, I have wondered about those support boats. What type of boats are they? If narrow boars, or small cruisers, they'll only be of use as a platform for the pumps, they won't be stable enough to hang anything of the side, or to lift your boat of the bottom.

If you fix IBC's to the side, you create a one meter wide gap between support boat and your boat. You will need to support you pump hoses with battens or somesuch, otherwise they'll slip into the water.

[Marcuswarry]

CarlT, you're right I guess... It's a little shorter than 2m, as I wrapped some around the batons to fix it to the hull...

 

I just have a feeling that if level, through buoyancy underneath... I'll be able to make a much stronger extended gunwale... As on the submerged side... Nearly two metre of polythene flapping about just doesn't feel like it will work to be... One of those pesky Egyptian geese could swing by and year it to threads in seconds...

 

M

[RLWP]

 

 

 

Richard

[smileypete]

Thanks for posting a pic of the other side.

 

What looks to be needed is to wrap across the wheelhouse doorway openings very well, as the water pressure when pumping out will try to force the doors inward, staple/batten to the window/door frames. Then wrap well across any submerged doorway openings and portholes which are open or may burst open inward for the same reason, don't forget any large vents too.

 

For larger openings best use thick poly as it'll take water pressure better, then overwrap with thinner decorating dust sheet which will seal the edges better when it's pumped:

 

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-All-Purpose-Heavy-Duty-Polythene-Sheet-3x4m/p/114301

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-1000-Gauge-Blue-Damp-Proof-Membrame-4x12-5m/p/152859

(can always buy extra and return what you don't need)

 

It's not too bad as it's not an open hull boat, so there's no need to create a framework to dam the water behind, gonna need a BIG pump though.

 

Something that may help is cut up old plastic containers or thin ply, use them as 'washers' to staple or nail through in the more critical areas so the plastic's less likely to tear.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited August 5, 2014 by smileypete

[Marcuswarry]

I've gone around the entire gunwale with the polythene membrane... You just can't see it, because it's wrapped up, next to the batons I used to fix it to the hull.. Ready to be released when ready....

 

It's taken me ages to do that... It was especially hard on the more submerged side... I was really hoping that would be the main part of the polythene work done!

 

Raising that polythene membrane will take all the other holes on the steps, deck etc out of the equation....

 

But, it's tricky to raise it high enough on the submerged side... Hence why I'd like to level the boat, by adding buoyancy around the outside of the keel... And then raising the polythene gunwales and pumping like crazy.

 

I guess I'm trying to seek approval for that method.. And trying desperately to ensure I haven't wasted all my time with my polythene gunwales : ( ...

 

Don't humour me though I suppose. If you think my suggestion is idiotic, then I guess I'll have to man up, and consider a rethink / jump back into the Thames : ( ...

 

Mx