My boat has sunk in Kingston (1939 ww2 wooden motor cruiser)

[carlt]

 

Having read the advice on here from CarlT and others, I think I understand the logic of how the polythene works its magic, and can try to give you an answer worth having. But if CarlT or anyone else who actually has rescued sunken boats disagrees with me, please follow their advice not mine! Here goes...

If I could write out all my posts and send them to you to translate into readable English I'd probably get into a lot less bother.

 

You have interpreted my garbled mess perfectly, thank you.

 

As for hammering under water it is, just about, possible but usually unnecessary if you can wrap the plastic tight enough.

 

When refloating boats with open holds that have no A-frames to support the plastic I used laths or similar that had to be nailed to the gunwales although on one occasion someone turned up with a Landrover with a full set of tools that fitted on to his hydraulic bumper mounted winch and worked under water so we just used his drill to screw plywood sheets to the boat which was sheer luxury.

[Proper Job]

An industrial staple gun works well under water for securing plastic sheet

[Bettie Boo]

My thoughts are with the previous owner, she put in a lot of hard work to keep that boat afloat and it was her home for many years, you come along with no knowledge about working on a boat of this age and not knowing it's history, run her aground, trash the gear box and sink her all within the space of a few months, well done. This should be a lesson to all those out there who think it is a good idea to buy an old boat and think they know what their doing, as I say well done, no doubt another boat that has seen her last days on the water.

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but after reading the above post felt the need to get something off my chest......

 

Northernboater - what a vile & nasty little person you must be, to post something as harsh as that and completely unprovoked. Hopefully you never find yourself in a situation where you need the advice of the kind & helpful people on this forum.

 

btw - Senior Management? Well it can't require much in the way of writing skills. Nor would I expect any employees to report directly to you. With that attitude, your employee turn over would be to high to keep any business "afloat"

 

Marcus - I can offer not advice or physical support, but wish you all the best with your current situation and hope you get your boat re-floated without to much heartache or expense.

[carlt]

An industrial staple gun works well under water for securing plastic sheet

I use a B&Decker one because they are more comfortable to use and less of a sacrifice than if my posh one sinks or goes rusty.

 

[bizzard]

I once on the Bow backwaters at Stratford raised a completely sunken old ex naval pinnace purely with my L/Rover and a huge rope tackle and 6' prop beam.

With pump standing by, two weighted rope strops were dangled and placed under and around bow and stern and brought together to the main rope pulley tackle which I attached to the L/R's front bumper. The wooden beam was placed under the tackle rope on the banks edge to prop it right up so as to apply a decent vertical although angled upward and outwards pull on the boat, a mate held the beam until I got a gentle strain on the tackle and then let go. L/R in low reduction reverse and applied power and Hey, Hey and up she rises, and rose to gunwale level, while I held it there with all brakes applied, the pump was bunged in and she was afloat again. The whole operation took about 2 hours.

[Marcuswarry]

Hello, peter x, CarlT and everyone!

 

Thanks again for all your help!

 

I've got loads of battons there already fortunately...I think vertical battons sound like a good idea... And I could add horizontal ones from the top to the stern cabin roof, to give more strength as the boat rises... And the water levels change between 'inside' & outside the boat...

 

The hard bit will be nailing the bottom of the battons to the gunwales... But I can drill small holes above the water, and prepare as much of the frame above the water line as possible, before then nailing it in place....

 

And then wrapping the polythene around the construction... The bow is much easier as I have the railings to wrap around, and they are firmly fixed to the deck.

 

The boat is tilted, so will aim to get the raised and easier side done today!!

 

It may be necessary to try and level the boat a bit to do the more sunken side....

 

Yesterday we were able to move the boat fairly easily by pushing against a large boat... So a boat the other side too.. And I suspect we will be able to use winches and things to gradually move and then hold the boat level... That'll make it easier to work on... And I suspect slightly safer, and easier to raise than from the present tilted position?!

 

Does that sound like a plan?!

 

My step brother is sourcing some inner tubes to get into the bow cabin (strong roof)... To aid with water displacement and boyancy.. When it come to the raise day!!

 

And then I'll get as many pumps working as possible.

 

You've all been utterly amazing on this forum!!! What would be super amazing is on raise day, when it come to pumping, is if we get as many pumps as possible there.

 

So far, we've had 3 pumps displacing 300 L a minute... And that doesn't touch the sides. But then again, it's not been fully sealed... So I can t read too much into that.

 

Assuming it's sealed, what do you think the minimum I need is, to give this some proper umph? 1000 L a minute? Or even more than that? There are pumps that displace over 200 L a minute in screwfix, for about £60... So I can always buy some more if needed!!!

 

Thanks again for all you advice & support!!

 

Marcus

X

[Proper Job]

I use a B&Decker one because they are more comfortable to use and less of a sacrifice than if my posh one sinks or goes rusty.

 

 

I've got an Ali Stanley one.

 

The spring went a bit rusty but nothing that a quick sqirt with WD40 couldn't cure

[carlt]

I once on the Bow backwaters at Stratford raised a completely sunken old ex naval pinnace purely with my L/Rover and a huge rope tackle and 6' prop beam.

 

I've dragged a couple of wooden narrow boats out of the centre channel with my Tirfor to get the gunwales out of the water, once using a ground anchor and once....errr...anchored off the bank pilings.

 

If anyone is tempted, btw, never use a telegraph pole as a Tirfor anchor point. They lean over surprisingly easily.

[carlt]

My step brother is sourcing some inner tubes to get into the bow cabin (strong roof)... To aid with water displacement and boyancy.. When it come to the raise day!!

 

 

I really wouldn't recommend putting anything buoyant in the cabin.

 

They contribute little or nothing to the lift and, even if you think the cabin is strong, may still do damage.

Edited July 30, 2014 by carlt

[RLWP]

I really wouldn't recommend putting anything buoyant in the cabin.

 

They contribute little or nothing to the lift and, even if you think the cabin is strong, may still do damage.

 

And will just float on top of the water once you start pumping out the cabin.

 

Put your efforts into wrapping the hull and the cabin and the gap where the steps beside the cabin doors used to be

 

Richard

[MtB]

Forgive me if I'm writing rubbish as I've never been involved with raising a boat, but looking at the photo surely all proposed work nailing vertical battens to the gunwales then attaching the plastic to them is unnecessary. My thinking is as follows:

 

1) The boat sank because water was entering the hull faster than it was being pumped out. To raise the boat, one needs to pump out water faster than it is re-entering the hull.

 

2) I note from the photo that the superstructure appears complete, undamaged, and covers the whole of the freeboard of the boat. This means if nothing was done other than putting a large pump (or lots of smaller pumps) into the boat it might yet rise, provided all the windows doors etc are closed. All that is necessary is for the pumps to remove water faster than it can enter though all the cracks, door gaps, flue holes etc, and of course the original hole that caused the sinking.

 

3) None of these holes or gaps is especially big, so it is probably worth a try at pumping first, with just the easy-to-get-at holes like the stove flue bunged up with sponges, rags etc.

 

4) If the boat fails to rise, the thin plastic sheet needs draping over and stapling directly to the superstructure I'd say. Far easier than fixing it to the proposed new vertical battens all around the hull, and will prevent water entering the interior of the boat just as effectively, probably more so.

 

These are just my thoughts as a self-appointed armchair expert. They may be wrong, but equally they may possibly save a lot of effort if my thinking is correct.

 

 

MtB

[carlt]

3) None of these holes or gaps is especially big, so it is probably worth a try at pumping first, with just the easy-to-get-at holes like the stove flue bunged up with sponges, rags etc.

...and the gap where the steps beside the cabin doors used to be

This sounds like a substantial hole to me which may be stuffable with a foam mattress or futon but taking it out of the equation by raising the freeboard is the easier option.

 

If it was a steel narrowboat in good order with secure hatches and doors I would agree...chuck a pump hose down the chimney, turn on the pump and go and have a cuppa...but wooden knackers have all sorts of holes above the waterline where the planks have shrunk and the cabins usually leak so these things have to be taken into account.

 

If you do the prep work first you don't spend a day or two pointlessly pumping finding leaks that you didn't know existed.

 

Builders Plastic is a lot cheaper than pump hire.

Edited July 30, 2014 by carlt

[MtB]

If you do the prep work first you don't spend a day or two pointlessly pumping finding leaks that you didn't know existed.

 

Builders Plastic is a lot cheaper than pump hire.

 

 

Point taken.

 

My other point was that the OP appears to be planning to erect a 'fence' of vertical battens all around the hull with the builder's plastic stapled to it, to raise the effective freeboard height.

 

This seems a lot more work (and less likely to succeed) to me, than stapling the builders plastic directly all over the existing boat structure. What are your thoughts on the two methods?

 

 

MtB

[peterboat]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but after reading the above post felt the need to get something off my chest......

 

Northernboater - what a vile & nasty little person you must be, to post something as harsh as that and completely unprovoked. Hopefully you never find yourself in a situation where you need the advice of the kind & helpful people on this forum.

 

btw - Senior Management? Well it can't require much in the way of writing skills. Nor would I expect any employees to report directly to you. With that attitude, your employee turn over would be to high to keep any business "afloat"

 

Marcus - I can offer not advice or physical support, but wish you all the best with your current situation and hope you get your boat re-floated without to much heartache or expense.

ditto

[carlt]

This seems a lot more work (and less likely to succeed) to me, than stapling the builders plastic directly all over the existing boat structure. What are your thoughts on the two methods?

What I would probably do first is fasten the plastic to the gunwales with staples then just secure it to the stanchions at the front with cable ties and drape it over the stern cabin stapling it to the roof if necessary though it is difficult to say definitely having just the one photo to go on.

[bizzard]

There must be a harder way;- like so.

Drive into the river bed by the piling method (hammer), out of say old scaffold planks or old corrugated iron sheets to make a coffer dam all around the boat . Pump out coffer dam, drain boat, fix leaks, fill dam to refloat boat. Flog coffer dam afterwards to the council to build a pier in it for a road bridge.

[Marcuswarry]

Thanks again!

 

I'll try fixing the plastic to the boat first before building the vertical battons....

 

How far down the gunwales should I go please? And will a heavy duty staple gun really hold it at the gunwales? Or are intermittent batons required.... So they can be nailed in more securely?

 

Marcus

[MtB]

I'd say as far down as you can comfortably reach. But I stress, I've never done this so could be talking rubbish.

 

Bare in mind that once the pumping starts, water will begin to flow into the boat though all the little cracks, holes etc, and the plastic sheet should get drawn to the holes by the water flow, and stop it.

 

Once this happens and the water level inside the boat begins to fall, you've cracked it and the boat will begin to float.

 

I might be able to come over this afternoon myself and offer practical help, or at least moral support.

 

 

MtB

[carlt]

Thanks again!

 

I'll try fixing the plastic to the boat first before building the vertical battons....

 

How far down the gunwales should I go please? And will a heavy duty staple gun really hold it at the gunwales? Or are intermittent batons required.... So they can be nailed in more securely?

 

Marcus

About 1' to 18" should do it and, if you can get it tight enough, you may not need staples at all except to secure the ends of the rolls.

 

Reinforce the roll beginnings with some thicker plastic folded over (bits of coal sack are ideal) to stop the staples pulling through the plastic.

Edited July 30, 2014 by carlt

[Proper Job]

The advantage Marcus has is that he knows his boat and can identify where potential points of entry for water are.

 

Water will flow back in through sink wastes, engine vents, exhausts and all of those other holes that are usually above the water line. It's amazng just how much water can flow in through these.

[MtB]

P.S. Where are you, exactly?

[carlt]

The advantage Marcus has is that he knows his boat and can identify where potential points of entry for water are.

 

Water will flow back in through sink wastes, engine vents, exhausts and all of those other holes that are usually above the water line. It's amazng just how much water can flow in through these.

At least he hasn't got an SR2.

 

On more than one occasion I've puzzled over the lack of progress of a lift until the owner has said "Do you think my SR2 will work after this?" (Facepalm moment)

[RLWP]

This sounds like a substantial hole to me which may be stuffable with a foam mattress or futon but taking it out of the equation by raising the freeboard is the easier option.

 

 

These are very substantial holes, say two foot square and empty directly from the deck into the hull. You can see the loose plastic covering one of them here, where there should be steps leading from the main to the foredeck:

 

 

Richard

[carlt]

What a sexy boat!

Well worth the effort, heartache, torn muscles, hypothermia, depression, total exhaustion, etc. that you have to look forward to over the next few years

[RLWP]

Knowing a little about the boat, the rear deck is fibreglassed, so shouldn't leak. Apart from the stem, the hull is OK. I believe the fore deck leaks, the missing steps are massive holes and there will be leaks around the cabin. I would be aiming to wrap all around hull from just below the portholes and focusing on getting the foredeck, steps and cabin watertight. Hoses for pumps can go in through the sunroof

 

Good job I'm not paddling in the Thames

 

Richard

Edited July 30, 2014 by RLWP