Audlem Annual Gathering of Historic Narrowboats

[JamesWoolcock]

Nice video. I suppose my only question is "what happened to the boat waiting to go down"? Were they informed that the line prevented them entering the lock until the butty had passed through (thus delaying them and wasting water) or did they just decide to wait? If the former, I can't see that happening in the days of yore so in order to get full marks, we need to see two such pairs transmitting in opposite directions - motor up - motor down - butty up - butty down.

Five, including the steerers, worked the boats through, while 'FreightLiner' Dave Williams went ahead with all his usual upbeat diplomacy and explained to oncoming craft what was happening. By the number of cameras out they all seemed delighted with what they saw. I didn't hear a single moan.

 

James (The fat guy in the cap with the bouncy labrador in Rebekah's super video.)

[nicknorman]

Five, including the steerers, worked the boats through, while 'FreightLiner' Dave Williams went ahead with all his usual upbeat diplomacy and explained to oncoming craft what was happening. By the number of cameras out they all seemed delighted with what they saw. I didn't hear a single moan.

 

James (The fat guy in the cap with the bouncy labrador in Rebekah's super video.)

I feel I am misunderstood. Had it been me waiting to go down I would have done so without stress, and nor was water an issue on that occasion. My point on both the water and the waiting was that this surely wouldn't have happened in the days when the canals were busy with pairs carrying for a living. I just can't see another working pair waiting patiently whilst the lock is cycled to bring the butty up. They must surely have gone one up one down, and how that was done with the lines attached must have been a whole more complicated technique. That was my point but as usual, pounced upon by those more interested in an argument than an informative discussion.

[Derek R.]

Was there a point to your comment Nick, I missed it if there was. But ignorant sarcasm I did see. "Misunderstood"? Only you would know.

 

A quote from Kingsley Amis: - "There's no point in writing if you can't upset someone".

 

Thanks to Rebekah for the video.

[nicknorman]

Was there a point to your comment Nick, I missed it if there was. But ignorant sarcasm I did see. "Misunderstood"? Only you would know.

 

A quote from Kingsley Amis: - "There's no point in writing if you can't upset someone".

 

Thanks to Rebekah for the video.

Yes there was, explained again twice, so if you cannot see it but see something else instead then can I suggest Specsavers? And maybe a visit to your GP for a dose of manners. Edited July 31, 2014 by nicknorman

[furnessvale]

At least they have sufficient knowledge to know their shiny boats are not some sort of replica something. Unlike some!

I presume you include SM Hudson in the "some" as they describe their boats as "Josher style", when Viking longship or perhaps Canadian canoe would be more appropriate.

 

I am pleased that you realise that your boat looks nothing like a Josher but I fear your assertion that others accept the same is misplaced, just as some Springer and Harborough Marine owners think they look like a Large Woolwich.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[nicknorman]

I didn't really plan to visit this thread at all, it's not my scene. However I did notice two unsolicited personal references to myself so inevitably got sucked in. Big mistake because the old fogies are a cantankerous lot with massive chips. I did enjoy the video, although it was a bit unrealistic if it was intended to replicate how things were done in "them golden days". But it seems that regardless, I am to come in for lots of stick so I'm not going to bother to be nice any more.

 

If it were up to me, all this old junk would be kept in a museum or crushed, and the old fogies put in a care home where both are then out of the way of the real world.

 

There, get your false teeth rattling around that, you miserable lot. I'm off to enjoy the real world.

[furnessvale]

I didn't really plan to visit this thread at all, it's not my scene. However I did notice two unsolicited personal references to myself so inevitably got sucked in. Big mistake because the old fogies are a cantankerous lot with massive chips. I did enjoy the video, although it was a bit unrealistic if it was intended to replicate how things were done in "them golden days". But it seems that regardless, I am to come in for lots of stick so I'm not going to bother to be nice any more.

 

If it were up to me, all this old junk would be kept in a museum or crushed, and the old fogies put in a care home where both are then out of the way of the real world.

 

There, get your false teeth rattling around that, you miserable lot. I'm off to enjoy the real world.

If you are referring to my helicopter post, I sense a major sense of humour byepass has occurred.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[nicknorman]

I presume you include SM Hudson in the "some" as they describe their boats as "Josher style", when Viking longship or perhaps Canadian canoe would be more appropriate.

 

I am pleased that you realise that your boat looks nothing like a Josher but I fear your assertion that others accept the same is misplaced, just as some Springer and Harborough Marine owners think they look like a Large Woolwich.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

No, I was particularly including the idiot Lawrence who is determined to think that Hudsons are an attempt at a replica. And if you think that a something -STYLE means it is a replica, I'm afraid I have to lump you in the same category. Do you really not understand the difference between a -style and a replica? (I'm sure you do really, when it suits you).

 

Having just spent a weekend at the Hudson open day in the company of numerous owners, I can assure you that none of them consider their boats to be a replica of a josher, most of them don't even know or care what a josher is.

 

Only folk whose primary aim is to sneer at others, don't realise this. How arrogant of them to think that the old junk they hold so dear must be a source of envy for everyone else. It isn't.

If you are referring to my helicopter post, I sense a major sense of humour byepass has occurred.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Yes, and no sense of humour bypass (that is not what "unsolicited personal references" means). I have no problem with your post except it resulted in my getting sucked into this thread against my better judgement since it would inevitably lead to more abuse. Edited July 31, 2014 by nicknorman

[Pluto]

Nick, can I suggest obtaining Towpath Encounter http://iarecordings.org/friends/sightseen/tpe.html. It is not about long lining, a comparatively modern technique, does show how two horse boats passed each other, and I think is an excellent example of how heritage can be used to promote canals today. I have shown the video to people across Europe, and they all end up enthusiastic for a visit to our canals. Heritage is just one aspect of English canals today, but it can offer much to modern canal users if done in the right way. We do need to find some way of retaining a canal's historic character, while at the same time allowing modern usage, which is just as much part of a canal's history as its original use for transporting goods.

[nicknorman]

Nick, can I suggest obtaining Towpath Encounter http://iarecordings.org/friends/sightseen/tpe.html. It is not about long lining, a comparatively modern technique, does show how two horse boats passed each other, and I think is an excellent example of how heritage can be used to promote canals today. I have shown the video to people across Europe, and they all end up enthusiastic for a visit to our canals. Heritage is just one aspect of English canals today, but it can offer much to modern canal users if done in the right way. We do need to find some way of retaining a canal's historic character, while at the same time allowing modern usage, which is just as much part of a canal's history as its original use for transporting goods.

Thanks, I am interested but perhaps not to the extent of £13!

 

I agree with the rest of your post and it of course highlights that the "traditionalists" are rather stuck in a particular era of 1st half of the 20th century, when the real history of the canals is much longer than that. I do find the historic canal infrastructure fascinating, I am just less into the old boats and folk dressing up and carrying on as if they were living in a bygone era. I am 57 and pride myself on staying abreast of technology (bearing in mind the canals were the "high tech" of the time) and folk who are always backward-looking are an anathema to me. It's the same with cars - I have no interest in old cars but give me a nice a Roman road any day over the M6!

[carlt]

Unfortunately for you (fortunately for the rest of us) things can't be frozen in time, and you have a choice either to move with the times (which doesn't mean abandoning old skills and ways, merely learning new ones as well), or to become unhappy. It is a pity you seem to be choosing the latter.

 

 

Despite being a traditionalist fogie (middle aged rather than old) I agree entirely.

 

If there were no "shiny boats" there would be no canal system left for the traditionalists to play on.

[Pluto]

Thanks, I am interested but perhaps not to the extent of £13!

 

I agree with the rest of your post and it of course highlights that the "traditionalists" are rather stuck in a particular era of 1st half of the 20th century, when the real history of the canals is much longer than that. I do find the historic canal infrastructure fascinating, I am just less into the old boats and folk dressing up and carrying on as if they were living in a bygone era. I am 57 and pride myself on staying abreast of technology (bearing in mind the canals were the "high tech" of the time) and folk who are always backward-looking are an anathema to me. It's the same with cars - I have no interest in old cars but give me a nice a Roman road any day over the M6!

If you want to see the video, just come along to an event where we have the L&LC heritage boat Kennet, and we would be happy to show it to you. There is a calendar of where Kennet is on the L&LC Society website http://www.llcs.org.uk/html/kennet_project.html#calendar.

[Derek R.]

Here's a fantastic video of Aquarius and Ilford long lining up the Audlem flight after they left the gathering.

 

Great to see techniques like this being kept alive.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e4TjsROGOYM

 

Superb video. I posted a link to it on another forum, and it has been very well received from California to the Antipodes. (As has the music from 'Flook'!)

[Ray T]

 

Well quoted Dave, I agree with all your sentiments, too many shiny boats too little real knowledge.

 

Laurence, I am a self confessed "shiny boater". However, I have a love of the history of our canals. Any book, recording, video of the past I avidly devour, I am fascinated by the restored working boats of the past and the life led on them.

 

However, Nick is right in his thinking the canals are as they are now, there cannot be a return to the past. Without the hire boats, in my view the successor of the working boat as they are earning money, which is the sole reason of the existence of the working boat of the past, the shiny boats etc.. the canals as we know them would not exist.

 

I do try to operate my shiny boat within the accepted practices of the past, and yes I do understand the history.

 

You are fortunate to have the use of work horses from the past, not all of us are able or want a ex working boat, but that is where they are from - the past, their role can never be fully recreated, a glimpse yes, but that is all.

 

Please have a wider vision, you have a wealth of knowledge but at times you come across as somewhat pompous, IMHO of course.

 

There is room for us all.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Ray T

[Laurence Hogg]

 

Laurence, I am a self confessed "shiny boater". However, I have a love of the history of our canals. Any book, recording, video of the past I avidly devour, I am fascinated by the restored working boats of the past and the life led on them.

 

However, Nick is right in his thinking the canals are as they are now, there cannot a return to the past. Without the hire boats, in my view the successor of the working boat as they are earning money, which is the sole reason of the existence of the working boat of the past, the shiny boats etc.. the canals as we know them would not exist.

 

I do try to operate my shiny boat within the accepted practices of the past, and yes I do understand the history.

 

You are fortunate to have the use of work horses from the past, not all of us are able or want a ex working boat, but that is where they are from - the past, their role can never be fully recreated, a glimpse yes, but that is all.

 

Please have a wider vision, you have a wealth of knowledge but at times you come across as somewhat pompous, IMHO of course.

 

There is room for us all.

 

Ray,

Not intended to annoy those who have newer craft and operate them properly, their input is perhaphs more important than those with historic craft as they are carrying the traditions forward with new boats.

One thing you did get wrong though

 

"You are fortunate to have the use of work horses from the past, not all of us are able or want a ex working boat, but that is where they are from - the past, their role can never be fully recreated, a glimpse yes, but that is all".

Really??

 

I consider myself "lumbered" with these boats, one set up "ready to go" and work with CRT, crewed at my expense, run at my expense, use by CRT this year so far ONE DAY!!!!!

 

The other being rebuilt for a organization who will be the benefactor but is showing little interest in the future evolution, why do we bother?

 

Sealed bids welcomed

 

I truly believe we have well passed through the peak of waterway interest and are now on the down slope, quite what is in the future I don't know, certainly the management doesn't seem any better than it was, there are no "golden horizons" to be aimed for, perhaps come the failure of CRT amalgamation with the EA will produce a Government run "Inland Waterways Executive" IWE ........... now that rings a bell...!

Edited August 4, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[alan_fincher]

The long-lining the loaded pair was great to see, but equally i think it has to be accepted that even if done with total precision, it can cause some inconvenience to the dozens of leisure boats, (including many hire-boats) trying to use those congested lock flights at the same time.

 

We were behind Aquarius and Ilford when they first tried to come down the Audlem flight, and things got fairly manic, with a significant build up of boats behind them, (not aided by an uphill boat having gearbox failure in a short uphill pound, where it then got tied up on a lock landing awaiting assistance).

 

In fairness to those operating the pair, they appeared to accept the situation, and after a while tied up the butty, and carried on with just the motor. They brought the butty down later in the day when things had calmed down.

 

I completely applaud them for doing this, and think it was a sensible decision in the circumstances.

As has been said, these busy canals are no particular boat owners personal playground, and we all need to coexist in a way that everybody enjoys their own style of boating.

 

Poor behaviour by "those playing at being working boaters" does those of us who own these boats no favours, and we all need to compromise. On the way back South with "Sickle" we were told that one of the historic boat crews leaving Audlem had turned the bottom Tyrley lock on a down-coming boat. This isn't great, as it is nigh on impossible to stop in the bottom pound at Tyrley, and if it is at all possible, having the next lock ready for you can avoid all kinds of fun and games. A shame then that "historic boat" crew has scored another negative point that ultimately counts against us all.

(Hopefully a balanced and fair post from someone who has both types of boat.)

[fanshaft]

The long-lining the loaded pair was great to see, but equally i think it has to be accepted that even if done with total precision, it can cause some inconvenience to the dozens of leisure boats, (including many hire-boats) trying to use those congested lock flights at the same time.

 

We were behind Aquarius and Ilford when they first tried to come down the Audlem flight, and things got fairly manic, with a significant build up of boats behind them, (not aided by an uphill boat having gearbox failure in a short uphill pound, where it then got tied up on a lock landing awaiting assistance).

 

In fairness to those operating the pair, they appeared to accept the situation, and after a while tied up the butty, and carried on with just the motor. They brought the butty down later in the day when things had calmed down.

 

I completely applaud them for doing this, and think it was a sensible decision in the circumstances.

 

As has been said, these busy canals are no particular boat owners personal playground, and we all need to coexist in a way that everybody enjoys their own style of boating.

 

Poor behaviour by "those playing at being working boaters" does those of us who own these boats no favours, and we all need to compromise. On the way back South with "Sickle" we were told that one of the historic boat crews leaving Audlem had turned the bottom Tyrley lock on a down-coming boat. This isn't great, as it is nigh on impossible to stop in the bottom pound at Tyrley, and if it is at all possible, having the next lock ready for you can avoid all kinds of fun and games. A shame then that "historic boat" crew has scored another negative point that ultimately counts against us all.

 

(Hopefully a balanced and fair post from someone who has both types of boat.)

 

It was indeed a most enjoyable event and thanks to all involved in the organising. A great video too.

Regarding the turning round of the bottom lock at Tyrley that is not probably aimed at me - but my lock wheeler (a great guy with a modern boat who lives in Market Drayton) had gone ahead and as a boat exited the bottom lock he kept it for me. Within a minute or so I must have come into view but the crew of a modern boat coming down were extremely disgruntled as they wanted to turn the lock round. Admittedly their boat had just left the next lock up before I arrived but the steerer managed fine (as I have done in that pound) and didn't have to wait too long and was quite friendly. The crew on the bank all turned their backs on me which I thought a bit odd (I didn't know why of course) and didn't help - my guy having gone ahead. I just thought this incident might have got 'turned round' a bit!

regards

David L

[alan_fincher]

 

Regarding the turning round of the bottom lock at Tyrley that is not probably aimed at me - but my lock wheeler (a great guy with a modern boat who lives in Market Drayton) had gone ahead and as a boat exited the bottom lock he kept it for me. Within a minute or so I must have come into view but the crew of a modern boat coming down were extremely disgruntled as they wanted to turn the lock round. Admittedly their boat had just left the next lock up before I arrived but the steerer managed fine (as I have done in that pound) and didn't have to wait too long and was quite friendly. The crew on the bank all turned their backs on me which I thought a bit odd (I didn't know why of course) and didn't help - my guy having gone ahead. I just thought this incident might have got 'turned round' a bit!

regards

David L

 

David,

 

I doubt from my understanding that what I referred to was a misreported version of you going through it. It was described clearly to us that a downhill crew already had the lock full, ready to boat into from the next one up, and that a "historic" crew turned it. Holding the lock empty after another downhill boat had left it wouldn't fit what was described.

 

Having watched you boat, I know you and your crews are usually the model of good behaviour!

 

We didn't ask which boat(s) so I don't actually know for certain though who the baddies were!

[fanshaft]

 

David,

 

I doubt from my understanding that what I referred to was a misreported version of you going through it. It was described clearly to us that a downhill crew already had the lock full, ready to boat into from the next one up, and that a "historic" crew turned it. Holding the lock empty after another downhill boat had left it wouldn't fit what was described.

 

Having watched you boat, I know you and your crews are usually the model of good behaviour!

 

We didn't ask which boat(s) so I don't actually know for certain though who the baddies were!

Thanks Alan for your kind words and it's good to know for sure that I was not the culprit!. There ,may be more to this than meets the eye of course..................

 

Regards

 

David L

[JamesWoolcock]

Long lining on the locks on the Shropshire Union

 

There is a lovey old photograph to the right of the restaurant door at The Talbot in Market Drayton of a motor waiting above Tyrley top lock with a line running over the bottom gates ready to bring a butty in when the chamber has been emptied.

 

I wish I'd been able to photograph AQUARIUS and ILFORD doing the exactly the same two weeks ago. I hope someone did.

 

James