Servicing Barrus shire 45 (yanmar) engine

[bargeeboy]

Must get down to see you all at some point. But you know what it's like to try and get some time away!

 

See you soon,

 

David

 

I hope Drew will see you first as he's still got Kangaroo dumped at Hack Green

[TeeELL]

I realise that this is a very late input, but rather than start a whole new thread (and then get abuse from 'some of our members' ) I offer the following:

 

This is for a Barrus Shire 45 based on the Yanmar 4TNE84

 

AIR FILTER data from www.uni-power.co.uk

 

RDG 5795 (Virgis filter) £14.95 (probably plus VAT and P&P)

119808-12520 (Donaldson filter) £46.89 ( ditto)

 

OIL FILTER e-Bay genuine Yanmar part

Yanmar 119305 -35150(35151) £5.95 + £2.00 p&p

 

FUEL FILTER MGR Fluid Power Ltd, Southam. Warks, CV47 8HS

Type 522 £2.00 + + Carriage + VAT (Min order value £20 + Invoice total of £27.03)

 

(These filters fit both my fuel filter with water/sediment trap and the engine secured filter)

 

 

OIL

 

I'm still trying to track down a suitable supply of 10W30 API CC oil, if only because the retailers of the Barrus Shire oil are rather distant - I would also like to try and buy bulk. After all the handy 5ltr bottle doesn't fill an engine requiring 5.8 ltrs!!

The PRM gear box will get a quality oil from wherever - if I find a bulk source as above, then that otherwise any quality mineral based 10W30 should be just fine.

 

So, if I find a source of oil I'll post the details in due course. Hope this is of use to any of you with the Shire 45 (or other Shires with the same requirements (looks like Shire 35 thru' 50 for Air and Oil filters and Shire 45 and 50 for the fuel filter)

[Lady Muck]

Thanks for that Tony, its really useful - next time I'm in the engine 'ole I'll look for the fuel filters brand that we are currently using. - We bought them from our marine engineer last time he fixed our engine.

[steelaway]

Many thanks. I was thinking of something like an 18 x 10 RH blade, but just wanted to be sure.

 

Must get down to see you all at some point. But you know what it's like to try and get some time away!

 

See you soon,

 

David

 

I have a 57ft with a Barrus 45. I tried an 18 x 10 on my fiends new boat (same spec) and found it under proped

I fitted a 18 x 12 on my new boat and found it under proped. Fitted a 18x1 4 and had bad cavitation.

Finaly fitted a 19 x 12 - perfect. Now the cruising speed is at 16-1800 rpm exactly at peak torque and peak MPG.

It will still rev to 2500 but that is definitetly ramming speed!

 

Alex

[TeeELL]

Just a quicky but this propellor business should really be on another thread - note the title of the thread but that is the way of this forum ho hum!!

 

Any way getting back to the engine servicing. I have to report that thus far I've not tracked down an alternative to The Shire engine oil and what is more much of the oil that is mineral based and purports to be the latest equivalent is twice the price I paid for the Shire product in 2 separate 'swindlers'!! I have a couple more places to try, after that I will be identifying the closest Shire dealer between Swindon and Walsall and diverting in for 15 ltrs

[paulcatchpole]

To (sort of) continue on the original oil filter theme...

 

We've an ST2 which has no oil filter - just a blanking plate where the filter would be.

 

Does anyone know if we can fit a plate there to take a filter, or should we not be worrying after 30 years of running without one?

 

PC

[TeeELL]

As far as oil is concurned I've got next to nowhere. I've had a quote at £3.85 litre but that will need VAT added on so I'm going to stick with Barrus Shire oil from a swindlers somewhere.

[Nickhlx]

I have found Morris Oils technical dept to be more than helpful when I have enquired after suitable oils for older and new engines in the past and they do manufacture both straight mineral and synthetic oils, and greases and other lubricants too.

 

http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/

 

Nick

Edited October 31, 2008 by Nickhlx

[Flyboy]

If anyones going to France you may be interested to know that you can can get API CD 15/40 oil in Auchan hypermarkets. I've recently brought back some at a cost of 6 Euros ( £5 ) for 5 litres. This oil is ideal for Barrus and Isuzu engines and probably most others too.

[alan_fincher]

I have found Morris Oils technical dept to be more than helpful when I have enquired after suitable oils for older and new engines in the past and they do manufacture both straight mineral and synthetic oils, and greases and other lubricants too.

The caveat here would be that their advice does not always align with that of those marinising an engine.

 

For BMC 1500 and 1800 engines Morris recommend a monograde SAE 30 known as Supreme 30.

 

If you ask Calcutt, marinisers of this engine, they say "that's not a good idea", it really should be a multigrade.

 

Some people swear by the Supreme 30 oil, but I found it didn't suit too well - I was "using" quite a bit, which I don't with a multigrade.

 

How you are supposed to know, if you are not a chemist dealing with mineral oils, God knows!

 

If anyones going to France you may be interested to know that you can can get API CD 15/40 oil in Auchan hypermarkets. I've recently brought back some at a cost of 6 Euros ( £5 ) for 5 litres. This oil is ideal for Barrus and Isuzu engines and probably most others too.

Is that definitely true ?

 

I thought even some of these more modern engines specifically recommended using nothing higher than an API-CC ?

 

I must admit I don't know which manufacturers, though....

 

EDIT:

 

OK Just checked Narras user manuals, and API CD 15w/40 is what's recommended, so that Auchan oil would be fine, (and a bargain!).

Edited November 5, 2008 by alan_fincher

[chris w]

Isuzu state API-CC but do say that IF CC is not available one can use an API-CD oil. Certainly nothing higher than CD should be used as was confirmed to me in a phone call with HMI-Isuzu. Even CD though is considered a compromise. CC will give maximum protection against bore glazing, being a "rougher" oil.

 

Chris

[alan_fincher]

Isuzu state API-CC but do say that IF CC is not available one can use an API-CD oil. Certainly nothing higher than CD should be used as was confirmed to me in a phone call with HMI-Isuzu. Even CD though is considered a compromise. CC will give maximum protection against bore glazing, being a "rougher" oil.

 

Chris

Yes, I had just reached the same conclusion.

 

So for an Isuzu it sounds like it's best to hold out for an API-CC, whith API-CD being at best a compromise.

 

But Barrus explicitly say API-CD for the Shire range.

 

I must admit that whilst I've found it quite easy to find API-CC, I don't think I've ever seen API-CD anywhere.

 

For completeness of the more popular Japanese engines, Beta seem to say any of API-CC, API-CD or API-CE.

[Guest TerryL]

i am due to service my 2006 shire 45 (yanmar)engine for the first time and would like to know if there is a suitable oil filter and oil in one of the high street motor part stores.

Farm/lawn/hire machinery outlets will stock parts for Yanmar.

[ditchcrawler]

Isuzu state API-CC but do say that IF CC is not available one can use an API-CD oil. Certainly nothing higher than CD should be used as was confirmed to me in a phone call with HMI-Isuzu. Even CD though is considered a compromise. CC will give maximum protection against bore glazing, being a "rougher" oil.

 

Chris

http://www.withamgroup.co.uk/vintagelubs.html Classic is a CC grade oil

[DameEdna]

Is that definitely true ?

OK Just checked Narras user manuals, and API CD 15w/40 is what's recommended, so that Auchan oil would be fine, (and a bargain!).

 

 

From what I can see the CC and CD rating are now obsolete primarily because oil's have moved on, newer grades do the same job and do it better. In olden days additives couldn't control; the shear strength of the oil over a wide temperature, now (especially with synthetics) they can.

 

What you really need is an oil that maintains it's viscosity over a wide range of temperatures (5W50), and doesn't get effected by sulphur.

 

France taxes oil differently that we do so it's much cheaper. I use a fully synthetic in my motorcycle which costs around £30 in the UK and less than £16 in France.

[alan_fincher]

From what I can see the CC and CD rating are now obsolete primarily because oil's have moved on, newer grades do the same job and do it better..

 

For the engines being talked about, the recommendations both by the manufacturers, and by other experts, is that you need an oil that is made to one of the obsoleted specs.

 

If in doubt read the manuals that are available on line, or phone them up.

 

Anyway, if a higher specced oil will do the job equally well, why are there specialist firms out there specifically blending to the older specifications ?

 

I don't intend to get into a debate over it - it's been done to death on the forum before, and I'm convinced, and know what I would (and do) use.

 

Alan

[rover220]

From what I can see the CC and CD rating are now obsolete primarily because oil's have moved on, newer grades do the same job and do it better. In olden days additives couldn't control; the shear strength of the oil over a wide temperature, now (especially with synthetics) they can.

 

What you really need is an oil that maintains it's viscosity over a wide range of temperatures (5W50), and doesn't get effected by sulphur.

 

France taxes oil differently that we do so it's much cheaper. I use a fully synthetic in my motorcycle which costs around £30 in the UK and less than £16 in France.

 

older oil grades are specified for a reason. a modern oil (eg, api cf) will tend to let the bores glaze up compared to an api cc for instance. modern oils are quite simply, too good at what they do for this sort of use.

[TeeELL]

Alan, be careful of what you read. My engine is based on the Yanmar TNE range (it is approx 5 years old) and the manual is quite specific on the use of API CC oil. However, the latest handbook, off t'internet, mentions API CD oil as an option. I'm going to maintain my conclusion that, having searched t'internet and oil distributors I'm sticking with the Barrus Shire Oil - not least because it is not overly expensive and, I guess, does what the engine requires. It still surprised me that a 'modern' engine should require such a quaint oil - after all I cannot imagine that these Jap engines are based on prehistoric designs!!

 

Bye the bye, just to add to the confusion, one company I approached who produce API CC oild assured me that API CC is NOT a Multi-grade type oil - I've a list of at least 25 Multi-grade API CC oils from a whole variety of manufacturers - I gave up at this point!!

[alan_fincher]

Bye the bye, just to add to the confusion, one company I approached who produce API CC oild assured me that API CC is NOT a Multi-grade type oil ...................

 

The problem is I think is that the API thing is a specification, not the same thing as a grade.

 

So some oils that comply with API-CC are multigrades, whereas others are indeed a monograde.

 

The much recommended Morris Supreme 30 is an SAE 30 monograde, but still complies to API-CC.

 

It's arguable whether it's a good choice for boat engines, but if is for example Morris' recommendation in a BMC, and lots of people swear by it.

 

Most manufacturers, (or more accurately marinisers, I guess), seem to point you at multigrades, however.

 

I've been using a "Lister Petter" oil, (which I'm told is also actually by Morris), but was daft enough to pay £19.50 for 5 litres in my chandlery before we went cruising, (I thought it had gone up unreasonably since the last lot). Same product at Uxbridge Boat Centre was £15.40. I do get annoyed with such blatant differences.

[Gary Peacock]

Alan, be careful of what you read. My engine is based on the Yanmar TNE range (it is approx 5 years old) and the manual is quite specific on the use of API CC oil. However, the latest handbook, off t'internet, mentions API CD oil as an option. I'm going to maintain my conclusion that, having searched t'internet and oil distributors I'm sticking with the Barrus Shire Oil - not least because it is not overly expensive and, I guess, does what the engine requires. It still surprised me that a 'modern' engine should require such a quaint oil - after all I cannot imagine that these Jap engines are based on prehistoric designs!!

 

Bye the bye, just to add to the confusion, one company I approached who produce API CC oild assured me that API CC is NOT a Multi-grade type oil - I've a list of at least 25 Multi-grade API CC oils from a whole variety of manufacturers - I gave up at this point!!

 

The new Yanmar engines uses CD the older series use CC if anyone is desperate for either we have lots of it in stock and are willing to post it out if you are happy to pay the carriage.

[steelaway]

The new Yanmar engines uses CD the older series use CC if anyone is desperate for either we have lots of it in stock and are willing to post it out if you are happy to pay the carriage.

 

 

 

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

 

useful site for oil information and much more

 

Alex

[TeeELL]

For those of you interested, the e-Bay Amman/Yanmar filters have arrived and appear to be the genuine article.