How many more boats can London take?

[NigelMoore]

I don't see why not. "Parliament" is not an entity with memory. Many of the MPs who disallowed it then, have been replaced by others. And anyway, there was not an "in-your-face" problem then.

 

Of course, theoretically, and it is a central tenet of English law that no Parliament can bind a future Parliament. But pragmatically, Cotswoldsman has a point too, which offsets the "in your face" problems you identify, with the misguided responses to the problems that have been publicised over the past years, giving credence to the former Parliament's concerns.

[oarfish]

After coughing up 9K for a year's mooring in Limehouse, there's no way in hell we are going to do that again, It's a mug's game. We travel 600+ miles a year. Pretty sure we can be relatively compliant CC with that.

Edited April 18, 2014 by oarfish

[nicknorman]

Of course, theoretically, and it is a central tenet of English law that no Parliament can bind a future Parliament. But pragmatically, Cotswoldsman has a point too, which offsets the "in your face" problems you identify, with the misguided responses to the problems that have been publicised over the past years, giving credence to the former Parliament's concerns.

Offsets it only to a minority of boaters, who represent a tiny minority of the population. Once it becomes widely known that these folk have cheap accommodation in central London, leave rubbish, make a noise and smoke, sell alcohol illegally (according to John), don't pay council tax whilst using many of the services that are funded by said tax, etc, the public resentment may be transmitted to the MPs

[jenlyn]

Offsets it only to a minority of boaters, who represent a tiny minority of the population. Once it becomes widely known that these folk have cheap accommodation in central London, leave rubbish, make a noise and smoke, sell alcohol illegally (according to John), don't pay council tax whilst using many of the services that are funded by said tax, etc, the public resentment may be transmitted to the MPs

Probably see a few Mp's there ;-) it's where most of them live.

[cotswoldsman]

Offsets it only to a minority of boaters, who represent a tiny minority of the population. Once it becomes widely known that these folk have cheap accommodation in central London, leave rubbish, make a noise and smoke, sell alcohol illegally (according to John), don't pay council tax whilst using many of the services that are funded by said tax, etc, the public resentment may be transmitted to the MPs

Nick don't take this the wrong way but " how is it in your world?" So with 8 million living in London, 2.5 million unemoyed etc Parliament is worried about a few thousand boaters?

[blackrose]

These people are not boaters, they just want a cheap London flat.

 

Bit judgemental unless you know them all personally?

 

Couldn't they be boaters who also want accommodation? The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

Looks like it can only get worse for genuine boaters wanting to visit for a few days.

 

 

Who says your definition of "genuine boater" is correct? For example, I know people on boats who think that only those who actually live aboard their boats all year round are genuine boaters, while part-timers who live in houses and take their boats out on weekends and holidays are not. Personally I think the truth is that there are lots of different kinds of boater and there's also a fair bit of snobbery and judgemental nonsense on this forum written by people who should know better.

Edited April 18, 2014 by blackrose

[nicknorman]

Nick don't take this the wrong way but " how is it in your world?" So with 8 million living in London, 2.5 million unemoyed etc Parliament is worried about a few thousand boaters?

A bit of statistic-mixing there! 8kk in London but not 2.5kk of them unemployed surely? The 2.5kk is the national figure. My original point was that, when the streets of posh London are blighted by scruffy boaters, suddenly it becomes something for MPs to worry about. If it were happening on the Walsall canal, the MPs would just say "Where's Walsall?"

 

But to answer your question, in my world it's booming. I just spent my pension money on a rental flat. One bedroom, open plan living/kitchen plus bathroom and a couple of walk-in cupboards, in a nice development but in not a great area. Put it up for rent at ...(think of a number and double it) and it's gone in 3 days.

Bit judgemental unless you know them all personally?

 

Couldn't they be boaters who also want accommodation? The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

 

Who says your definition of "genuine boater" is correct? For example, I know people on boats who think that only those who actually live aboard their boats all year round are genuine boaters, while part-timers who live in houses and take their boats out on weekends and holidays are not. Personally I think the truth is that there are lots of different kinds of boater and there's also a fair bit of snobbery and judgemental nonsense on this forum written by people who should know better.

You can always make a "don't generalise" point but it doesn't really bring much to the party. The previous posters making the point about inability to work a lock gives a clue. But I would say a good test is whether someone has bought a boat because they want to live on it (or just cruise on it) without being that concerned about where. As opposed to someone whose primary objective is to live in a set place (central London in this case) and sees a boat as the only way of achieving it.

[cotswoldsman]

A bit of statistic-mixing there! 8kk in London but not 2.5kk of them unemployed surely? The 2.5kk is the national figure. My original point was that, when the streets of posh London are blighted by scruffy boaters, suddenly it becomes something for MPs to worry about. If it were happening on the Walsall canal, the MPs would just say "Where's Walsall?"

 

But to answer your question, in my world it's booming. I just spent my pension money on a rental flat. One bedroom, open plan living/kitchen plus bathroom and a couple of walk-in cupboards, in a nice development but in not a great area. Put it up for rent at ...(think of a number and double it) and it's gone in 3 days.

Can't think of a number but my daughter let her 1 bedroom flat in London for £1,250 per month so guess the way you are talking a lot more than that?

[nicknorman]

Can't think of a number but my daughter let her 1 bedroom flat in London for £1,250 per month so guess the way you are talking a lot more than that?

Not quite, but not that far off. But that Aberdeen prices are close to London prices says something about the state of the economy up here. Well, that is until independence when all property will be nationalised.

[Mystery man]

Hi

New to the site

Just reading this and I believe London usage will grow as it appears to be outside the norm, fees are increasing just like house prices and people are still able to pay so it would appear that mooring fees are at market rates or am I Nieves.

[cotswoldsman]

Not quite, but not that far off. But that Aberdeen prices are close to London prices says something about the state of the economy up here. Well, that is until independence when all property will be nationalised.

Boats that cost £20,000 are being let for £500 per month so maybe you should have invested in a few boats in London

[jenlyn]

Well, that is until independence when all property will be nationalised.

And the scots live off the imf. I'll just be glad to see all those blasted Aberdeen Angus steakhouses in london, begger off back to Scotland!

Boats that cost £20,000 are being let for £500 per month so maybe you should have invested in a few boats in London

And B&Q sheds, you forgot the sheds.

[nicknorman]

Boats that cost £20,000 are being let for £500 per month so maybe you should have invested in a few boats in London

You're probably right, but a/ think of the 550 mile drive when the tenants complained that no more poo would go down their toilet and b/ I do have some ethics. Allegedly.

I'll just be glad to see all those blasted Aberdeen Angus steakhouses in london, begger off back to Scotland!

 

That was always a con. Aberdeen is a city, Angus is a district some way south of Aberdeen. So there is no way a bit of cow can be both Aberdonian and a resident of Angus. But then Londoners are easily fooled.

[jenlyn]

You're probably right, but a/ think of the 550 mile drive when the tenants complained that no more poo would go down their toilet and b/ I do have some ethics. Allegedly.

 

That was always a con. Aberdeen is a city, Angus is a district some way south of Aberdeen. So there is no way a bit of cow can be both Aberdonian and a resident of Angus. But then Londoners are easily fooled.

They ain't fooled that easily, we all knew the jellyfish stinging Cameron was really a yes campaigner hired by salmond

[alan_fincher]

The previous posters making the point about inability to work a lock gives a clue.

 

I have met considerable numbers of people who have just bought a boat never having boated one before, and clueless about everything.

 

They even include people who have bought Hudsons, or have bought an absolutely brand new off the shelf boat and spent £30K having it modified to their specific needs, with no idea what their specific needs are.

 

If being clueless before you bought a boat disqualified you from ownership, then vast numbers of people would not now own one, ut they haven't all taken them to big cities as cheap accommodation.

Nick don't take this the wrong way but " how is it in your world?" So with 8 million living in London, 2.5 million unemoyed etc Parliament is worried about a few thousand boaters?

 

there are probably more people living rough in London than there are on boats, and Parliament doesn't seem too concerned about them, unfortunately......

[John V]

 

I have met considerable numbers of people who have just bought a boat never having boated one before, and clueless about everything.

 

They even include people who have bought Hudsons, or have bought an absolutely brand new off the shelf boat and spent £30K having it modified to their specific needs, with no idea what their specific needs are.

 

If being clueless before you bought a boat disqualified you from ownership, then vast numbers of people would not now own one, ut they haven't all taken them to big cities as cheap accommodation.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

 

Bit judgemental unless you know them all personally?

 

Couldn't they be boaters who also want accommodation? The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

 

Who says your definition of "genuine boater" is correct? For example, I know people on boats who think that only those who actually live aboard their boats all year round are genuine boaters, while part-timers who live in houses and take their boats out on weekends and holidays are not. Personally I think the truth is that there are lots of different kinds of boater and there's also a fair bit of snobbery and judgemental nonsense on this forum written by people who should know better.

 

I don't come close to agreeing with a lot of the stuff you post these days Mike, but this is absolutely spot on in my view.

 

Who has the right to say that they are a more genuine boat owner than any other? The intended use of canals largely came to a halt 50 years ago, so what gives me a greater right to them now than anybody else?

[Lady Muck]

there are probably more people living rough in London than there are on boats, and Parliament doesn't seem too concerned about them, unfortunately......

There are a lot more people living in vans and trucks in the capital but no one notices them. I don't hear about any student photography projects for instance but I do know a lot of people doing it. There are sometimes as many as five or six vans outside our gates. People in live in vehicles tend to move every day, but if you go to the industrial estates around here where its very easy to get a job, you'll see plenty of these vans.

We've also got 2000 people in Tottenham living in warehouses that don't have residential planning permission. They need low rent and a big space (many of them working as set designers, in the arts, the theatre, dancers etc). Haringey wants to evict them and replace with something unaffordable and unsuitable.

We freelancers can only stay in the capital if there are affordable rents. We all need to be here for work. Plenty of us can't do the same job somewhere else, last time I checked the fashion capital was not Leeds and the West end theatre district was not in Birmingham. Rents have just rocketed but our fees have not. Our old £500 a month flat in Clapton (in 2004) is now £1200 a month.. Its why I'm on a boat. I guess that means I'm not a genuine boater.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Lady Muck

[John V]

 

Who has the right to say that they are a more genuine boat owner than any other? The intended use of canals largely came to a halt 50 years ago, so what gives me a greater right to them now than anybody else?

 

 

"Grandfather rights".....???

 

p.s. not being ageist of course

[nicknorman]

I guess that means I'm not a genuine boater.

What are you doing on here then?

 

Anyway, taking up Alan's point, of course people have to start somewhere and that means they won't know what they are doing to start with. But I come back to why they decided to buy a boat. Take Blackrose's case. He was moored on the Thames and presumably worked in London. When he got a better job elsewhere, in the west of the country, he moved his bait there and continued to live on it even though he could probably have got a flat cheaper than the cost of running a boat.

 

But I would bet that a good percentage of the London towpath hogs, on getting their dream job in another part of the country, would sell their damp and cramped boat immediately and rent a nice flat. I can't prove that of course, and neither can it be disproven, but if proof is required for this argument then it is a non-starter.

[Tuscan]

I don't come close to agreeing with a lot of the stuff you post these days Mike, but this is absolutely spot on in my view.

Who has the right to say that they are a more genuine boat owner than any other? The intended use of canals largely came to a halt 50 years ago, so what gives me a greater right to them now than anybody else?

Interesting point in the pub last night there was much talk by the local boaters in there that the majority of the working boats at the rally (who were not in the pub but in the village hall) were just enthusiastic brass polishers that played at being boaters by just attending rally's. You will gather from this that I have a sore head having started at one and ended at another!

 

I agree that what makes the canals so vibrant is the mix of boats and boaters that can be found on it.

[Lady Muck]

But I would bet that a good percentage of the London towpath hogs, on getting their dream job in another part of the country, would sell their damp and cramped boat immediately and rent a nice flat. I can't prove that of course, and neither can it be disproven, but if proof is required for this argument then it is a non-starter.

Those that hate it just don't last. We had a very mild winter, if we have a proper one, that usually sorts out the men from the boys, although I dread to think what it will be like in town with that many boats and a load of frozen elsans and taps.

[John V]

There are a lot more people living in vans and trucks in the capital but no one notices them. I don't hear about any student photography projects for instance but I do know a lot of people doing it. There are sometimes as many as five or six vans outside our gates. People in live in vehicles tend to move every day, but if you go to the industrial estates around here where its very easy to get a job, you'll see plenty of these vans.

We've also got 2000 people in Tottenham living in warehouses that don't have residential planning permission. They need low rent and a big space (many of them working as set designers, in the arts, the theatre, dancers etc). Haringey wants to evict them and replace with something unaffordable and unsuitable.

We freelancers can only stay in the capital if there are affordable rents. We all need to be here for work. Plenty of us can't do the same job somewhere else, last time I checked the fashion capital was not Leeds and the West end theatre district was not in Birmingham. Rents have just rocketed but our fees have not. Our old £500 a month flat in Clapton (in 2004) is now £1200 a month.. Its why I'm on a boat. I guess that means I'm not a genuine boater.

 

 

Many years ago I earned part of my living as a roady-electrician-sound/lighting engineer on the West end function/cabaret scene and during the busy times through November and December often doing two gigs a day, I slept in the van along with the equipment.

This was because I could only afford to live too far out of town to be able to commute quickly enough.

[Ssscrudddy]

I have been doing some voly lock keeping in Stoke Bruerne this week. I never cease to be amazed by the number of boats that arrive at Stoke Bruerne top lock without an idea of how to operate a lock. And that excludes the hire boats from Gayton. I am always (I hope) happy to help and usually during conversation I find out that the owner of the boat has bought it 'locally'<snip>

This bit made me laugh, with the number of boats for sale in the area, if you head south the 1st lock will be Stoke Bruerne top lock, so it's no wonder so many dont know how to work a lock (which you would know anyway).

It was 6 months before I had to do a lock, my GF usually does them, this time I was with my Sister helping her move the boat she had just bought, & I had to show her how to work a lock... having never worked 1 until that point.

 

I just cant see the attraction of London. When I was in my late teens I was always there, every weekend. Now I cant stand the place. Last time I went there was to see Iron Maiden play at Twickenham.

[Lady Muck]

Also just to add, being on a boat for financial reasons and having a love of boating and the canals are not necessarily mutually exclusive. There are plenty of new boaters here who fall in love with the waterways and get really into it. We all start somewhere don't we?