1939 sea plane tender - perkins S6M - gearbox issues, may need to find replacement!

[RLWP]

I'll try and bring some photos back

 

Richard

[Proper Job]

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist

[carlt]

I'll try and bring some photos back

 

Richard

Not just oily engine shots I hope....

[bizzard]

I reckon that's an ex naval pinnace too. I raised a sunken one on the Bow back waters years ago which looked the same shape and length but was of double diagonal construction.

[Marcuswarry]

Richard (aka 'the legend') has been and gone! With gearbox in hand, I feel he's certainly the man for the job!

 

Thanks you all for all your amazing helpful contributions to this thread!

 

Hmm... Pinnace is starting to look lie a good bet just got to find another boat like this one, and piece this whole thing together!!

 

Hope you're all enjoying this lovely sunny day. I'm going to embark on a spot of painting now!

 

Marcus

[Wanted]

 

Go team! good work folks, I am a little gutted that Richard has been within an ales distance of my manor and I am stuck on the Isle of Man, next time!

 

Keep us posted on progress Marcus, you have a lovely boat, when you get to Kingston I'll nip round for Tim's bubbly!

 

Rob

[Proper Job]

Richard (aka 'the legend') has been and gone! With gearbox in hand, I feel he's certainly the man for the job!

 

Thanks you all for all your amazing helpful contributions to this thread!

 

Hmm... Pinnace is starting to look lie a good bet just got to find another boat like this one, and piece this whole thing together!!

 

Hope you're all enjoying this lovely sunny day. I'm going to embark on a spot of painting now!

 

Marcus

 

I'm sure the inner workings of your gearbox will soon be posted on the forum or the Primrose Engineering web site

[RLWP]

Not just oily engine shots I hope....

 

No oily engine shots:

 

 

 

 

Rear cabin:

 

 

Wheelhouse rear:

 

 

Wheel:

 

 

 

It isn't always easy to tell with old boats, however I would say that what is there is what was always there. The rear cabin construction seems the same as the wheelhouse, the top and bottom of the wheelhouse match.

 

She's an elegant old girl

 

Richard

[Marcuswarry]

Nice pictures! Thanks Richard, glad you like her!

Marcus

[Grace and Favour]

She's a most graceful craft.......

 

And like all beautiful girls, many will lust after her, but if you look after her, Marcus, the joy will be yours!

[carlt]

 

 

 

She's an elegant old girl

 

 

She certainly is, however I'm not convinced either the wheelhouse or aft cabin are original but, without looking at her close up I couldn't be sure.

[Proper Job]

Many Pinnaces' were converted just after the war to 'gentlemens launches' when they became surplus

 

Almost certainly the wheel house and cabin would have constructed at the same time and 'in period'

 

As a Pinnace the area aft of the wheel house would have been a normal deck with small hold.

 

Looking at the bows, and the provinance that she was Sea Plane tender, I'm wondering if she was a passenger transfer boat?.

 

Very elegant boats were built to transfer (highly paying) passangers from the shore based terminals to the flying boats in the post war period when flying boats were king.

 

?

[OldGoat]

Many Pinnaces' were converted just after the war to 'gentlemens launches' when they became surplus

 

Almost certainly the wheel house and cabin would have constructed at the same time and 'in period'

 

As a Pinnace the area aft of the wheel house would have been a normal deck with small hold.

 

Looking at the bows, and the provinance that she was Sea Plane tender, I'm wondering if she was a passenger transfer boat?.

 

Very elegant boats were built to transfer (highly paying) passangers from the shore based terminals to the flying boats in the post war period when flying boats were king.

 

?

The passenger transfer boats were a lot bigger and had an upswept cabin top entrance to avoid the customers having to remove their hats.

There were a couple of them on the Thames some years ago. I met one in a lock and seemed to remember that it had a pair of Detroit Diesels.

 

If the OP cares to make a thread on the YBW Thames forum, there is an ancient mariner with the handle of "Byron" who knows a helluva lot about all sorts of craft. Give it a try.

[RLWP]

Welland Power are in Linconshire, but they might be able to put you in touch with someone more local who may have knowledge.

 

No luck with Welland

 

Richard

[Dharl]

The British Military Powerboat Trust ( http://www.bmpt.org.uk/index.htm ) is an organisation that it might be worth getting in touch with to find out more of the history of your lovey craft.

 

Certainly has the look of a Naval Pinnace. Can recommend the YBW forums for, lots of knowledgeable people on there too!

[Proper Job]

Another one might be one of the sea plane sites?

 

Are remember coming across a site which IIRC was BOAC and the flying boat terminals at Poole and Southampton. Can't find it now.

 

edit: I should have tried harder: http://www.pooleflyingboats.com/about.html

The passenger transfer boats were a lot bigger and had an upswept cabin top entrance to avoid the customers having to remove their hats.

There were a couple of them on the Thames some years ago. I met one in a lock and seemed to remember that it had a pair of Detroit Diesels.

 

 

 

I hoped that we English may have been a little more subtle than our American counterparts who tended toward semi planing hulls and big twin V8's

 

But I take your point about the patrons not having to remove their hats. Top form

 

No luck with Welland

 

Richard

 

What's the verdic on the box? Had a chance to do any investigations yet?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Proper Job

[RLWP]

Not good

 

Richard

[RLWP]

You could ask on the Airfield Information Exchange forum or trawl the threads Clicky.

 

Discussions are ongoing there

 

Richard

Edited April 17, 2014 by RLWP

[Marcuswarry]

Eeek. Please can you update me when you get a chance? M

[Proper Job]

Not good

 

Richard

 

Oh dear

 

I've put feelers out but they're all coming up blank.

[Proper Job]

I see you've put a post on the BMPT site (http://www.bmpt.co.uk/perkins-s6m-gearbox-for-pinnace_topic957.html#9124)

 

Let's hope this comes up with something.

 

S6's appear to have been widely used in dragline cranes as well as vehicles and other stationary uses. I wonder if someone has had a marine engine, ditched the gearbox and used the motor?

[RLWP]

The problem is this. Somehow, the lubrication of the reverse gear cluster has failed. The Perkins has a straight cut reverse cluster, like a Lister does: http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=48882.

 

Because it is a more powerful and sophisticated set up, the planet gears have roller bearings or ball races. Without oil, these have dried out and turned to dust. This didn't stop the box from working, but it did mean that the planet gears moved outwards and didn't engage properly, putting loads on the teeth that they didn't like. They have now failed:

 

This is the front of the reverse gear pack:

 

 

and these are the planet gears:

 

 

 

Like the Lister box, in reverse the carrier is stationary and the gears revolve. In forwards, the clutch locks the pack solid but the drive still goes via the teeth on the lower gear here. Losing the teeth means all drive is lost

 

Finding replacements is the current challenge, hence the other forums. If that doesn't work, making new gears is the likely solution

 

In other news, the output of the main box has a generous pinion:

 

 

which engages on the inside of a beautiful ring gear:

 

 

which gives a speed reduction without changing the direction of rotation. Lovely stuff. After nearly seventy years, that bloody pinion doesn't want to come off. I'm going to have to make up a collar to pull it with

 

All good fun, if you like that sort of thing

 

Marcus, I'll give you a call later

 

Richard

Edited April 17, 2014 by RLWP

[Proper Job]

I know it would be a great shame but, what about marrying up a modern PRM if it's beyond economical repair and you can't get an immediate replacement?

 

A 500 or 750 should be enough

[bizzard]

I once had an old book called 'Wonders of world aviation' 1938ish. And in it was a photograph dated 1937 of all the posh passengers being rowed out in what looked like a 30' ships lifeboat to an Imperial Airways Short Empire flying boot moored in Southampton water.

[jake_crew]

In other news, the output of the main box has a generous pinion:

 

After nearly seventy years, that bloody pinion doesn't want to come off. I'm going to have to make up a collar to pull it with.

 

Do be careful Richard.

 

On our Gleniffer we pulled, prized, jerked, thrutched and pulled again on a flange at the back end of the gearbox ( a bit like the one in the middle of the picture above).

 

And eventually managed to break a piece off ( again like I think I can see in your picture).

 

After further perusal of the tiny cross section diagram with a magnifying glass we noticed a tiny area of cross hatching - meaning a screw thread as you know.

 

We then unscrewed it by hand !

 

Not one of our better days, though I realise you may not have a diagram at all.

Edited April 17, 2014 by jake_crew