12V Leisure Batteries

[Richard10002]

 

Are you sure of your figures? Your use of Ah for Amp-hours seems rather muddled.

 

The Pro-Combi data sheet says it uses 1.8 amps in normal mode or 0.4 amps in power saver mode. In a 24-hour day that would be 43 Ah in normal mode or 9.6 Ah in power saver mode

 

You are correct on the terminology - It should read 4A in normal and 1-2A in power saver.

 

My readings are real life - turned on with the Consumer unit turned off, and all DC stuff off. The data sheet is clearly somewhat optimistic. Unfortunately, my recent experiences with Sterling have instilled an extreme lack of faith and trust in them. Power saver mode is somewhat hit and miss, in terms of what items will activate it, so its either on normal, or off.

 

I'd expect Victron and Mastervolt to be somewhat more efficient, and somewhat more effective and flexible.

 

 

 

Even so, running a very efficient 240V fridge would cost at least 43Ah per day.

[Nightwatch]

Just seen an advert in Towpath Talk for 3x Numax 110ah batts for £200 delivered with a 3 year guarantee. Surely for a consumable item that has got to be worth a punt? Even if you bin them after 3 years and get 3 more you are still paying less than you would for those posh 6v batteries.

Numpty question in response to Juniors post.

 

If, I was to buy 3 batteries as advertised but only connect two, all I need at present, would the third one survive not connected up and stored?

 

Martyn

[smileypete]

Yes this will be a good idea. Any tips on how frequently we should equalise?

 

It'll be on their website, I think it's about monthly or more often if they need it.

 

 

Numpty question in response to Juniors post.

 

If, I was to buy 3 batteries as advertised but only connect two, all I need at present, would the third one survive not connected up and stored?

 

Martyn

 

Would have thought a fully charged sealed one should do OK for 6 months if nothings connected, a non sealed one may need the odd charge or a small trickle charge. There should be a contact for Numax somewhere, who could advise.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited March 10, 2014 by smileypete

[bottle]

Numpty question in response to Juniors post.

 

If, I was to buy 3 batteries as advertised but only connect two, all I need at present, would the third one survive not connected up and stored?

 

Martyn

 

Fit the three, if you have the space.

 

Three will work 'less hard' than two, for the same load/usage and as long as re-charged correctly will last longer (life)

[ditchcrawler]

Numpty question in response to Juniors post.

 

If, I was to buy 3 batteries as advertised but only connect two, all I need at present, would the third one survive not connected up and stored?

 

Martyn

Why not connect all three and get the best of them all.

[Nightwatch]

Two good points. We already have four on the go. We bought Nightwatch with a 3kw? Inverter and it's been said that to have a couple more will increase the supply to the inverter. Is seven a bit over the top? Is six over the top?

 

We will be living onboard from June this year.

 

Is it a question of more the merrier where batteries are concerned?

 

Far too many questions for one post, Shirley.

 

Martyn

Edited March 10, 2014 by Nightwatch

[valrene9600]

Well you asked, and immediately rejected the only two alternatives I would recommend. Yes Trojan and US Batteries are expensiven, but properly looked after, will last up to three times longer than Bog Standard leisure batteries.

 

In case you change your mind, the cheapest source I have found are these people:-

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/

 

These are the batteries we have, so far they have beeinstalled nine years and still hold a full charge :-

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/US-125-Deep-Cycle-Monobloc-Battery-P4121.html

The batteries you link to are 6volt 242AH. Very interested in this debate so please excuse my ignorance but will 2 wired for 12volts = 242AH and if so doubling to 4 batts would be 484AH.

Just trying to compare price and spec against my present 4 x 110AH sealed.

[Paul C]

Two good points. We already have four on the go. We bought Nightwatch with a 3kw? Inverter and it's been said that to have a couple more will increase the supply to the inverter. Is seven a bit over the top? Is six over the top?

 

We will be living onboard from June this year.

 

Is it a question of more the merrier where batteries are concerned?

 

Far too many questions for one post, Shirley.

 

Martyn

 

The more the better but eventually you'll run out of space to fit more batteries, or run out of money to buy them, or their connection cables. Remember that once you have over 3 batteries, you need to think a bit harder about how you'll connect them and maintain the same current flow in/out of each battery; and that interconnecting cables, ring terminals, battery terminals and insulating covers all cost money.

At least on a narrowboat the weight penalty of more batteries is not an issue, since you can remove ballast to compensate. Except if all your batteries must be installed on one side of the boat....

[David Schweizer]

The batteries you link to are 6volt 242AH. Very interested in this debate so please excuse my ignorance but will 2 wired for 12volts = 242AH and if so doubling to 4 batts would be 484AH.

Just trying to compare price and spec against my present 4 x 110AH sealed.

 

Yes, 4 x six volt 242Ah batteries will give you 12v 484Ah Wired like this:-

Edited March 10, 2014 by David Schweizer

[ditchcrawler]

Two good points. We already have four on the go. We bought Nightwatch with a 3kw? Inverter and it's been said that to have a couple more will increase the supply to the inverter. Is seven a bit over the top? Is six over the top?

 

We will be living onboard from June this year.

 

Is it a question of more the merrier where batteries are concerned?

 

Far too many questions for one post, Shirley.

 

Martyn

Dont forget, I doesn't matter how much battery capacity you have, you still have to replace it

[Nightwatch]

Too true.

 

Alternator. The bigger the output, the more load on the drive belt. Is this correct. I have a 50hp Shire. What is the largest alternator I can attach.

 

I'm also toying with the idea of 400w solar.

 

Am I barking mad? I am trying to be serious.

 

Martyn

[bottle]

I do not know the largest you could fit but Beta Marine fit a 175 amp 12v on their Beta 43.

 

Of course it is doubtful you would get anywhere near full output, not enough 'revs' even with suitable pulleys and the batteries being partially charged will reduce it as well.

 

400 watts of solar is good and depending on your usage should cover it during the sunny Summer and cover a lot of it in the Spring and Autumn.

 

No matter what size your battery bank it will not last long if you try to run 3Kw of it, if expecting to run that sort of load then it would be better to run the engine or a generator when that loads is on.

[by'eck]

 

Yes, 4 x six volt 242Ah batteries will give you 12v 484Ah Wired like this:-

 

Assuming you take positive feed from top left as shown, then negative feed should be taken from bottom right in order to better balance battery their use (or vice versa if it better suits).

[Nightwatch]

 

No matter what size your battery bank it will not last long if you try to run 3Kw of it, if expecting to run that sort of load then it would be better to run the engine or a generator when that loads is on.

Thank you for that. It's a rarity that we have anywhere near 3kw load on. Wife's hair drying. We run the engine as the inverter complains. Not enough battery? I am swaying towards solar power. A bit like a plant I suppose.

 

Not sure why the previous owner fitted such a large inverter. Perhaps he ran high wattage items.

 

Martyn.

[Jambo]

OK so I had some extra work come up this week which means I've been able to afford to expand our capacity a bit and go for 6 x T105s.

 

I've been looking at the Smartgauge battery wiring diagrams and wondering how to wire up 3 pairs of 6Vs. I'm guessing I have to do method 3 but is there a way of doing method 4 with an odd number of pairs?

 

Also I mentioned up thread that I was looking for battery cables with crimped lugs already attached. Anyone got an online source?

[David Schweizer]

 

Assuming you take positive feed from top left as shown, then negative feed should be taken from bottom right in order to better balance battery their use (or vice versa if it better suits).

 

I do not understand, why will taking the feeds off at opposite corners of the set up will make any difference ?

[Ex- Member]

There was a company on E bay that did battery cable to size and crimping and there's one on line somewhere. We bought a small hydraulic crimper for just £45 it's a brilliant bit of kit and what you would pay extra in crimping services would probably pay for one of these.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-70mm-8-Ton-Force-Hydraulic-Crimper-Cable-Wire-Crimping-Tool-Kit-8-Die-/400387679431?pt=UK_BOI_Materials_Supplies_Electrical_ET&hash=item5d38f724c7

 

 

We went for the US2200 batteries. I used method 3 method for connecting the batteries 4 just looked more complicated and I liked the idea of a Pos Neg isolated posts which do work really well. I made the posts myself from 10mm Brass studding and Brass nuts & washers.

 

 

The posts run through the floor section as there's a cavity underneath. This is where I connect the 70mms alternator cables. You could mount such posts on board or reinforced panelling. The standard posts you can buy are basically too small.

 

I'm not sure if you're in our area, but you're welcome to borrow crimpers for the job if you are.

[Paul C]

While we're on the topic of pairs of 6V batteries, I noticed that the Victron BMV702 now offers mid-point monitoring as part of its battery monitor capabilities. Any interest to people?

[Proper Job]

 

I do not understand, why will taking the feeds off at opposite corners of the set up will make any difference ?

It's expained in the link to the Smartgauge site on post 40

 

It's basically to balance the cable length that link the batteries to ensure that the batteries get the same charge/discharge voltage

[Jambo]

There was a company on E bay that did battery cable to size and crimping and there's one on line somewhere. We bought a small hydraulic crimper for just £45 it's a brilliant bit of kit and what you would pay extra in crimping services would probably pay for one of these.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4mm-70mm-8-Ton-Force-Hydraulic-Crimper-Cable-Wire-Crimping-Tool-Kit-8-Die-/400387679431?pt=UK_BOI_Materials_Supplies_Electrical_ET&hash=item5d38f724c7

 

 

We went for the US2200 batteries. I used method 3 method for connecting the batteries 4 just looked more complicated and I liked the idea of a Pos Neg isolated posts which do work really well. I made the posts myself from 10mm Brass studding and Brass nuts & washers.

 

The posts run through the floor section as there's a cavity underneath. This is where I connect the 70mms alternator cables. You could mount such posts on board or reinforced panelling. The standard posts you can buy are basically too small.

 

I'm not sure if you're in our area, but you're welcome to borrow crimpers for the job if you are.

 

Nice looking set up. We have the posts already so method 3 should be doable. It's just that the orientation is posts - 6V pair - 6V pair - 6V pair. The first pair will need cables as long as the final pair but are located right next to the posts so there'll be a fair bit of slack cable to tuck away. Thankfully the batteries aren't too big so it should be manageable.

 

Thanks for the offer of the crimper loan but we're London based. I had been eyeing those up - they look pretty good. Will see what the difference in price is and work out if it's worthwhile going for it.

[by'eck]

 

I do not understand, why will taking the feeds off at opposite corners of the set up will make any difference ?

 

Please read this - although referring to balancing load on paralleled 12 volt batteries, the same applies to two or more pairs of 6 volt ones wired series/parallel to give a 12 volt bank.

[David Schweizer]

 

Please read this - although referring to balancing load on paralleled 12 volt batteries, the same applies to two or more pairs of 6 volt ones wired series/parallel to give a 12 volt bank.

 

Yes Thanks, Proper Job gave a Llnk as well.It's all a bit academic in our case as we only have two US125 6v 242Ah batteries in serirs on our boat,

[Ex- Member]

 

Nice looking set up. We have the posts already so method 3 should be doable. It's just that the orientation is posts - 6V pair - 6V pair - 6V pair. The first pair will need cables as long as the final pair but are located right next to the posts so there'll be a fair bit of slack cable to tuck away. Thankfully the batteries aren't too big so it should be manageable.

 

Thanks for the offer of the crimper loan but we're London based. I had been eyeing those up - they look pretty good. Will see what the difference in price is and work out if it's worthwhile going for it.

 

Hi Jambo

 

Ours wasn't too bad, I recall the longest lead was 18 inches it was only the closest battery that needed to take up some slack. I recall using 40mms cable for the leads.

 

This was the end product, the bullet type fuse was in readiness for the solar input. Just a point though this 60a fuse failed and kept tripping for no apparent reason so we now use a 100a mega fuse instead.

 

 

The crimpers do work well giving a very neat crimp. I was going to sell them on, but they probably will come in handy again so now part of the tool kit. Also I used the glued heat shrink, a bit dearer but definitely much better especially for thicker cable.

Edited March 11, 2014 by Julynian

[Jambo]

Well we had a fun afternoon crimping. That crimper is impressive - it handled 70mm2 cable with ease.

 

We had a slightly tense couple of hours getting the T105s in place and everything wired up again.

 

We've fired up the charger and it's charging them at ~14.5V. I'm hearing a fair bit of fizzing from the electrolyte. Is that normal? Don't think I'd noticed it with my old batteries.

 

My girlfriend (whose nose is more sensitive than mine) thought she could smell a faint sulphurous smell just when we'd started charging which scared me slightly but there isn't any smell now.

 

Otherwise everything looks fine. It's just quite a scary process when it's your first time!

[Loafer]

Well we had a fun afternoon crimping. That crimper is impressive - it handled 70mm2 cable with ease.

 

We had a slightly tense couple of hours getting the T105s in place and everything wired up again.

 

We've fired up the charger and it's charging them at ~14.5V. I'm hearing a fair bit of fizzing from the electrolyte. Is that normal? Don't think I'd noticed it with my old batteries.

 

My girlfriend (whose nose is more sensitive than mine) thought she could smell a faint sulphurous smell just when we'd started charging which scared me slightly but there isn't any smell now.

 

Otherwise everything looks fine. It's just quite a scary process when it's your first time!

Shouldn't be fizzing at 14.5 V. Maybe the odd bubble. Have you requested a second opinion from another voltmeter? And make sure it's directly across one of the batteries, rather than stuck in a cigar lighter away from the batteries.