Cruising patterns with and without a home mooring

[magictime]

In 2012 we had a home mooring. In 2013 we gave it up and became 'CCers'. It didn't make a blind bit of difference to our cruising patterns, though - winter excepted - since even when we had a home mooring, the boat was away from it most of the year. Either we were out on it cruising (at weekends and during school holidays) or else it was waiting for us on the towpath somewhere for up to two weeks at a time.

Yet there seems to be a widespread assumption that a whole set of issues to do with overstaying, needing to know how far you're required to move after 14 days in one place, etc., only apply to CCers. Which makes me wonder two things:

1 - do other (non-liveaboard) boaters with home moorings generally leave the boat on those moorings the whole time they're not out cruising? (Presumably meaning that every time they do go out cruising, they're generally cruising the same local area?)

2 - alternatively, is there a general belief that (non-liveaboard) boaters with home moorings just don't need to worry too much about how far they move their boats and how often, since they're not required to comply with the CCing guidance? If so - just what are the (real or perceived) differences between what's required of boaters with and without home moorings, in terms of cruising patterns?

Edited February 20, 2014 by magictime

[Naughty Cal]

We tend to keep NC on her home mooring but we have a wide choice of waterways to choose for a weekend cruise from our home berth.

 

We are toying with the idea of keeping her elsewhere for a month or so this year but again that will be in a marina. Grimsby is favourite at the moment!

[Water Rat.]

I have always had a home mooring and once a year had a decent trip away with lots of local trips out and about. Last year I left my mooring and for five months I moved her around, technically I did still have a mooring but did not use it. My feeling was I got more out of the boat simply because I had to keep her moving on. I did get a bit tired of the same stretch of canal so have now moved to another area and have another mooring. I expect I will stay where I am for a while and then move again. I do like the safety of a permanent mooring - just not the mooring fees!!

[nicknorman]

As I understand it, the need to be on a progressive journey (ie move the boat significantly and not just bridge hop) is only associated with a declaration of no home mooring. If you have a home mooring the CCer rules obviously don't apply and indeed it would be surprising if most such boats were not mostly spotted in a fairly small radius from the home mooring. However they still have to move the boat at least once every 14 days, or shorter interval if so signed.

[Thorfast]

Our cruising pattern is much like Water Rats in posting #3.

Home mooring in a marina with lots of long trips away and some long weekends too.

Last summer left the marina and spent 4 months away often leaving the boat at other boatyards or marinas as we explored much further away, - we gave up the home mooring in June, but did not take up another until November - so now the boat is positioned at a new marina so we can explore a new area for a year or two.

 

Technically we were ccers for 4 months, but I doubt that CaRT picked up on that and I didn't bother telling them.

[Ray T]

As I understand it, the need to be on a progressive journey (ie move the boat significantly and not just bridge hop) is only associated with a declaration of no home mooring. If you have a home mooring the CCer rules obviously don't apply and indeed it would be surprising if most such boats were not mostly spotted in a fairly small radius from the home mooring. However they still have to move the boat at least once every 14 days, or shorter interval if so signed.

 

This is exactly what we do at the moment. As Mrs T still works we are limited to the time we are able to spend on the boat.

One of our favourite canals is The Ashby, personally I never tire of it.

 

The furthest we have been is Leighton Buzzard, sad I know but hey ho. We actually cruised more distant areas when we hired.

On my wish list is to take our own boat on the Llangollen and obviously to Croxton Flash on the T & M, having visited both these canals on hire boats.

 

When it is open and Mrs T is at work, Millie the Mutt and myself, regularly take the boat to the Boat Inn at Burdingbury, have a drink and a bite to eat. So much more pleasant than the car.

 

P.S. we moor the boat in a marina.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Ray T

[john6767]

We moor the boat in a marina. The last 2 summers the boat has been away from the marina for early May to Early September. During that time it is a mix of us on the boat cruising, the boat in a marina on a short term mooring or on a towpath somewhere. In the towpath case we have on occasion wanted to stay in the same place for say a month, therefore when the 14 days are up we have moved it for say the Saturday night, and then moved back to the same location for another 14 days. My understanding is that is acceptable practice, but others may disagree. To me it would be a bit boring if every trip was from the same marina and then back again. We have been as far as Lechlade south, and LLangollen and the River Weaver north, using this approach.

[Bunny]

Don't know if it is termed as having a home mooring or whether we are termed c/cer's but we have had the same winter mooring for the last 4 winters. Nov/March/but during the other months we are generally found in the midlands, fens, Manchester ect We have a winter mooring as we don't want to move every 14days because of work / family commitments. We do livaboard. Bunny.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Bunny

[magictime]

As I understand it, the need to be on a progressive journey (ie move the boat significantly and not just bridge hop) is only associated with a declaration of no home mooring. If you have a home mooring the CCer rules obviously don't apply and indeed it would be surprising if most such boats were not mostly spotted in a fairly small radius from the home mooring. However they still have to move the boat at least once every 14 days, or shorter interval if so signed.

 

Sure, I can see that boaters with home moorings need to be allowed to move up and down the same stretch(es) of canal repeatedly. But in terms of having to move on after 14 days (or less), boaters with and without home moorings are in the same boat (sorry), aren't they?

 

I suppose what I'm driving at is this: another thread has started up recently in which the merits of clarifying the guidance on CCing, in order to spell out how far CCers have to move after 14 days (or less) in one spot, are being debated. But isn't CCing a bit of a red herring in this context? Wouldn't some basic guidance on how far you have to move to be in a different 'place' be equally applicable/useful to many boaters *with and without* home moorings?

 

I have a feeling I once read a thread in which someone suggested that boaters with home moorings don't actually have to move to a different 'place' every 14 days - just to a different 'location', which might not be as far away. I was wondering if that view - that the basic rules on what counts as 'overstaying' are different for CCers and non-CCers - is widely held?

[trackman]

I believe nickorman's explanation of the "rules" is right.

Our cruising pattern is rather like the op's but we use our boat more as we are both retired. However we do a lot of child care for grand children which means time away from the boat and the need to leave it where we can get to public transport.

We currently have a CRT mooring but have ccd in the past. I don't think it has made a real difference to our cruising pattern whether we have a mooring as our behaviour would normally be compliant with the cc requirements either way.

[nicknorman]

Sure, I can see that boaters with home moorings need to be allowed to move up and down the same stretch(es) of canal repeatedly. But in terms of having to move on after 14 days (or less), boaters with and without home moorings are in the same boat (sorry), aren't they?

 

I suppose what I'm driving at is this: another thread has started up recently in which the merits of clarifying the guidance on CCing, in order to spell out how far CCers have to move after 14 days (or less) in one spot, are being debated. But isn't CCing a bit of a red herring in this context? Wouldn't some basic guidance on how far you have to move to be in a different 'place' be equally applicable/useful to many boaters *with and without* home moorings?

 

I have a feeling I once read a thread in which someone suggested that boaters with home moorings don't actually have to move to a different 'place' every 14 days - just to a different 'location', which might not be as far away. I was wondering if that view - that the basic rules on what counts as 'overstaying' are different for CCers and non-CCers - is widely held?

Yes I think that's pretty much right. With a home mooring, you just have to move every 14 days max, but not necessarily to another "place" - ie bridge hopping is permissible. But without a home mooring, you have to comply with the "bona fida for navigation" thing as interpreted by CRT's guidance for those without a home mooring. There is no "guidance for those with a home mooring" except the 14 day rule, and obviously any VM restrictions.

[magictime]

Yes I think that's pretty much right. With a home mooring, you just have to move every 14 days max, but not necessarily to another "place" - ie bridge hopping is permissible. But without a home mooring, you have to comply with the "bona fida for navigation" thing as interpreted by CRT's guidance for those without a home mooring. There is no "guidance for those with a home mooring" except the 14 day rule, and obviously any VM restrictions.

 

It still looks to me, then, as if the rules for those with home moorings are at least as nebulous as the rules for those without. Do non-CCers have to move one boat length after 14 days? One bridge? One mile? Again, the CC thing just seems to be a bit of a red herring if what we're trying to address is the (potential or actual) problem of popular/convenient mooring spots being clogged up by boaters staying for extended periods in one small area.

[bottle]

It is simple, to me anyway, I CC and move the boat when and where I want, but do comply with any signs that may be present. ie. 24 Hrs maximum etc.

 

I expect those in a marina possibly do the same.

 

I honestly cannot see the problem and definitely do not want to be told where (how far) and when I have to move my boat.

 

I have not seen any over-stayers, bridge hoppers on the system, I am not in one place long enough to tell if they are.

[Paul C]

 

It still looks to me, then, as if the rules for those with home moorings are at least as nebulous as the rules for those without. Do non-CCers have to move one boat length after 14 days? One bridge? One mile? Again, the CC thing just seems to be a bit of a red herring if what we're trying to address is the (potential or actual) problem of popular/convenient mooring spots being clogged up by boaters staying for extended periods in one small area.

 

Are you looking for the absolute minimum distance you can move a boat (with a home mooring, while its out and about)? I don't think there's actual legislation, but common sense would mean it would be sufficiently different. For example, moving up 1", or one set of rings, or one boat length, is taking the piss. Moving off a particular mooring but onto another distinct one in the same (overall) place would be okay though.

[MtB]

I have not seen any over-stayers, bridge hoppers on the system, I am not in one place long enough to tell if they are.

 

This is the problem isn't it. You wouldn't. But this is the source of all the heat and friction regarding CCers, or rather CMers.

 

Peeps with a home mooring usually DO cruise the same sections of cut repeatedly through a season. This means they get to see and recognise the few boats moored here and there on the public towpath in the same place all summer and never moving. Then they begin to wonder why they are paying £2k a year for their own home mooring.

 

Enforcement for CRT must be a whole lot more difficult that it first appears. I think another problem is that even if a boat is under the 'enforcement process' or has been given permission by CRT to stay there due to exceptiona circumstances, there is no way for passing local marina boaters to know this and they subsequently perceive that boat to be 'getting away with it'.

 

MtB

[magictime]

It is simple, to me anyway, I CC and move the boat when and where I want, but do comply with any signs that may be present. ie. 24 Hrs maximum etc.

 

I expect those in a marina possibly do the same.

 

I honestly cannot see the problem and definitely do not want to be told where (how far) and when I have to move my boat.

 

I have not seen any over-stayers, bridge hoppers on the system, I am not in one place long enough to tell if they are.

 

 

 

Are you looking for the absolute minimum distance you can move a boat (with a home mooring, while its out and about)? I don't think there's actual legislation, but common sense would mean it would be sufficiently different. For example, moving up 1", or one set of rings, or one boat length, is taking the piss. Moving off a particular mooring but onto another distinct one in the same (overall) place would be okay though.

 

Yeah, I'm not suggesting there's a huge problem as long as people apply a bit of common sense/good faith and don't just take the piss. I'm just suggesting that insofar as there is a problem with a lack of clarity in the rules leaving room for pisstaking behaviour, it's a problem that applies to CCers and non-CCers equally.

[nicknorman]

This is the problem isn't it. You wouldn't. But this is the source of all the heat and friction regarding CCers, or rather CMers.

 

Peeps with a home mooring usually DO cruise the same sections of cut repeatedly through a season. This means they get to see and recognise the few boats moored here and there on the public towpath in the same place all summer and never moving. Then they begin to wonder why they are paying £2k a year for their own home mooring.

 

MtB

I wish you would stop agreeing with me, it's making me nervous...

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=64274&p=1246122

[bottle]

This problem is similar to one I had in my job, there were 'rules' and guidelines but it was up to us how we applied them but if we did so and 'it went wrong', all hell let loose and we were out of a job.

 

It was impossible to lay down in black and white what to do in each situation, knowledge, experience and common sense were needed.

 

so

 

We have rules and guidelines for using our boats on the canal, with our knowledge, experience and common sense, we comply but if it goes wrong, we lose the right to have a boat on the canal.

[NBDensie]

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm not suggesting there's a huge problem as long as people apply a bit of common sense/good faith and don't just take the piss. I'm just suggesting that insofar as there is a problem with a lack of clarity in the rules leaving room for pisstaking behaviour, it's a problem that applies to CCers and non-CCers equally.

 

I agree that exactly the same reasonable rules on overstaying should apply to both CCers and people with genuine moorings and believe they should be followed in their spirit not merely the details of their wording. The disadvantage of clarity is that piss-taking can be justified on the basis of detailed textual analysis rather than common sense.

 

However as I understand it a problem is that restrictions on CCers are enshrined in law which makes the devising of a general strategy much more difficult.

[b0atman]

A guideline used by BW I thought was the 10 lock miles distance which although sounding reasonable failed at foxton

[nine9feet]

We have rules and guidelines for using our boats on the canal, with our knowledge, experience and common sense, we comply but if it goes wrong, we lose the right to have a boat on the canal.

 

Except that losing the right to have a boat on the canal is the final step of a long process. If you are genuinely trying to follow the guidelines when CCing and you get it wrong you will be warned rather than your boat being immediately taken.