Drive Plate? speculation please

[ditchcrawler]

Isn't that where you broke down last time.

[MtB]

That key is past its best too. Bearing Services ( at Uxbridge if you are going that way) should be able to sell you a new piece which you can saw to length with a hacksaw- Take the old one in with you.

 

Might also be worth getting some Loctite 641 or similar to coat all the bits with when you put it together again. This is similar to MtB's silicone bodge, but using a proper engineers bodging adhesive.

 

N

 

On reflection if I were to bodge it properly I wouldn't use silicone. Car body filler would be more durable, and a better job.

 

 

MtB

[HappyBunny]

Isn't that where you broke down last time.

 

actually I loved Marston Doles ..... but it was a long way to the nearest road .... as Richard will vouch .... in Berkhamsted this time

 

I'm probably putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5, but you haven't got a moped/motorbike on your front deck have you?

 

no, you are making 4 .... that is me with my little KE 100 on the front deck .... think I passed you yesterday

 

Bung the four bolts in for now - that wasn't your original problem

 

Richard

 

but I have forgotten what the original problem was ...... ... oh yeah .... she dropped her key .... and hey, I know loads of proper names for coupling thingy bits now .... and have an intimate knowledge of, and love for, the inner beauty of the fenner fenaflex

[junior]

 

 

no, you are making 4 .... that is me with my little KE 100 on the front deck .... think I passed you yesterday

 

 

 

Ah well I didn't see you yesterday, but it was me you waited for in the lock on the way into Berkhamstead last week. We then had the conversation about the best place to trade, the candy boat etc.

 

Pleased to meet you!

[HappyBunny]

 

Pleased to meet you!

 

Ah yes .... and you

 

Well, like Blanche Dubois, I have always been amazed at the kindness of strangers .... and not so strangers ....... a welcome visit from Batavia, and his fancy measuring gadget (but don't tell anyone!) confirmed that the shaft is very worn .... and the taperlock mechanism in the fenner coupling beyond bodging with even industrial quantities of loctite. Not only is it in two pieces, but the threads on the locking grub screws worn to practically nothing .....

 

So, after phoning round some distinctly unhelpful local bearing suppliers, it would seem that the taperlock bushes are like rocking horse poo .... but Richard suggested Chris B, who had more success .... and, hopefully, now the required parts are making their way to the home counties .... and soon into my greasy paws

 

As she will be coming out of the water next year for blacking, i am hoping to delay replacing the shaft till then, and maybe beef up the coupling at the same time (I know you CAN do it while still in the water, but to be frank, I find that prospect a bit alarming ) . Hopefully, by jiggling the shaft back a bit, i may be able to fix the new taperlock onto a relatively unworn section of shaft .... and get underway again relatively soon

 

However, I am a little out of my comfort zone on this. so if anyone is knocking around Berkhamsted at a loose end on Monday, and fancies getting down and dirty in my engine bay, or just telling me I am proceeding correctly .... they would be massively welcome .... I may have chance to do it on Saturday but have visitors coming at some point ......

Bunny

[Caprifool]

The way you put "distinctly unhelpful" made me chuckle. That's how they all are on my side of the ocean. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[HappyBunny]

The way you put "distinctly unhelpful" made me chuckle. That's how they all are on my side of the ocean. Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

yes, it would appear that, even if you know what you want, have part numbers, the fact that you have titties means that they have to talk to you as if you are a complete cretin and be as rude as possible ..... or maybe bearing suppliers are just like that with everyone .... a little customer service training would definitely be helpful

[bizzard]

A good botch might be to beef up the worn shaft end might be to once a new key is inserted in its slot to cut a layer or layers of oven foil to size and stick it around the shaft where the taper lock grabs it. Ideally the amount of wear needs measuring with say feeler gauges or Vernier but it can be done with trial and error. Again ideally very thin slithers of shim steel in various thicknesses (thousandths of an inch) can be had at good engineers stores which would be more professional.

[jake_crew]

On the opposite hand, I recall the parts lady at the Triumph dealership in St Albans (1970s) who knew every part number by heart and would be back with it even before you'd finished describing the item you wanted.

 

I remember a few blokes "crashing on her rocks" assuming she just made the tea !

[cereal tiller]

 

Ah yes .... and you

 

Well, like Blanche Dubois, I have always been amazed at the kindness of strangers .... and not so strangers ....... a welcome visit from Batavia, and his fancy measuring gadget (but don't tell anyone!) confirmed that the shaft is very worn .... and the taperlock mechanism in the fenner coupling beyond bodging with even industrial quantities of loctite. Not only is it in two pieces, but the threads on the locking grub screws worn to practically nothing .....

 

So, after phoning round some distinctly unhelpful local bearing suppliers, it would seem that the taperlock bushes are like rocking horse poo .... but Richard suggested Chris B, who had more success .... and, hopefully, now the required parts are making their way to the home counties .... and soon into my greasy paws

 

As she will be coming out of the water next year for blacking, i am hoping to delay replacing the shaft till then, and maybe beef up the coupling at the same time (I know you CAN do it while still in the water, but to be frank, I find that prospect a bit alarming ) . Hopefully, by jiggling the shaft back a bit, i may be able to fix the new taperlock onto a relatively unworn section of shaft .... and get underway again relatively soon

 

However, I am a little out of my comfort zone on this. so if anyone is knocking around Berkhamsted at a loose end on Monday, and fancies getting down and dirty in my engine bay, or just telling me I am proceeding correctly .... they would be massively welcome .... I may have chance to do it on Saturday but have visitors coming at some point ......

Bunny

PM sent

[Batavia]

A good botch might be to beef up the worn shaft end might be to once a new key is inserted in its slot to cut a layer or layers of oven foil to size and stick it around the shaft where the taper lock grabs it. Ideally the amount of wear needs measuring with say feeler gauges or Vernier but it can be done with trial and error. Again ideally very thin slithers of shim steel in various thicknesses (thousandths of an inch) can be had at good engineers stores which would be more professional.

The one saving grace is that there is about 20 mm of shaft which was inboard of the taper bush that is not scored at all, so it should be possible to use this, if the prop can be pushed back. We didn't look down the weed hatch at the time to see if this would cause any problems. There was about 0.4mm of wear on the shaft (and probably rather more on the taper bush and it was very "corrugated".

 

One slight problem is that the end of the shaft is slightly mushroom-ed (possibly from banging against the gearbox shaft - the clearance between the two shafts was very small?), so a bit of filing might be required to get the new bush on.

 

Luckily the keyway in the shaft looks pretty undamaged, unlike the one in the taper bush, which was quite worn and the bush had cracked along one edge of the keyway.

 

I should be around on Monday if any assistance is required.

 

Chris G

[Caprifool]

I drive a Saab 900i. When i need parts for it first check the local dealers. -No mate, don't have it! -Uhm, how long would it take to order it? -Two weeks mate!

 

Then I log on to eBay in the UK and have the parts delivered in three days.

 

And it's a SWEDISH car!

 

Drives me mad.

[Chalky]

I drive a Saab 900i. When i need parts for it first check the local dealers. -No mate, don't have it! -Uhm, how long would it take to order it? -Two weeks mate!

 

Then I log on to eBay in the UK and have the parts delivered in three days.

 

And it's a SWEDISH car!

 

Drives me mad.

 

Our proper Saab 900i (pre GM days) had over 200K miles on it. The dealers used to consider those mileages on Saabs of that generation to be "just run in".

[MtB]

A good botch might be to beef up the worn shaft end might be to once a new key is inserted in its slot to cut a layer or layers of oven foil to size and stick it around the shaft where the taper lock grabs it. Ideally the amount of wear needs measuring with say feeler gauges or Vernier but it can be done with trial and error. Again ideally very thin slithers of shim steel in various thicknesses (thousandths of an inch) can be had at good engineers stores which would be more professional.

 

Another, quicker and cheaper approach is to use the feeler gauges to establish the size of the gap to fill, then instead of running around looking for shim steel of that particular thickness, get a pair of scissors and cut the feeler gauge blade off the set and use that.

 

A new feeler gauge set to replace the buggered one will be way cheaper than buying the shim steel.

 

MtB

[bizzard]

 

Another, quicker and cheaper approach is to use the feeler gauges to establish the size of the gap to fill, then instead of running around looking for shim steel of that particular thickness, get a pair of scissors and cut the feeler gauge blade off the set and use that.

 

A new feeler gauge set to replace the buggered one will be way cheaper than buying the shim steel.

 

MtB

Good idea Mike but a bit tedious trying to feed in or stick down several widths of feeler gauge and you would probably need about 4 sets of them to get enough of the blade size you need for the job.

However here's another plan. Now I like Pilchards very much and the very small tins of the Glenryck ones are enough for an ideal snack, on toast, with a salad or for sandwiches. I have one of these unopened and have just measured its diameter with my hernia gauge and it says 2'' OD, which if a slit slot were cut with scissors lengthwise up it to dodge the keyway slot it would sit snuggly around the prop shaft. Batavia reckoned that the shafts wear at the position in question was about 0.4mm wear plus some in the taperlocks bore too, so I reckon one of these small Glenryck pilchard tins would be ideal, and so at 65p per tin at Sainsburys and possibly even cheaper elswhere and with the added benefit of a tasty snack to boot yum, yum. And if Happy bunny stocked up with several tins she get lots of tasty snacks plus several spare tin shimming for her propshaft.

I think there's a Sainsbury in Berkhampstead, also Tescos and Waitrose.

I could even open my tin and have pilchards on toast for supper and could even mail the empty tin to her, with the end caps cut off, slit and flattened out it would fit nicely in an envelope and go 2nd class post and would look a bit like like a Christmas card if I left the red coloured label on, although a pilchard is depicted on it with the usual little logo stating OMEGA 3. OMEGA 3! now that has a very good engineering sound to it too. Those little tins are very useful for all manner of things. I always save them.

Edited December 13, 2013 by bizzard

[alan_fincher]

I have always respected you great knowledge and design ingenuity up until now Biz, so it is unusual to see you get things wrong!

 

No Sainsburys in Berkhamsted, unfortunately!

 

However I believe Happy Bunny has a small motor bike on board that might have the capability to reach Apsley, so with a bit of modification your plan might still be salvaged.

[bizzard]

I have always respected you great knowledge and design ingenuity up until now Biz, so it is unusual to see you get things wrong!

 

No Sainsburys in Berkhamsted, unfortunately!

 

However I believe Happy Bunny has a small motor bike on board that might have the capability to reach Apsley, so with a bit of modification your plan might still be salvaged.

Thanks, but, Oh! Alan they sell tins of Glenryck pilchards everywhere, And I saw them in that small Tescos in Berko in 2005 when I pulled up there in Lady Olga.

[HappyBunny]

Good idea Mike but a bit tedious trying to feed in or stick down several widths of feeler gauge and you would probably need about 4 sets of them to get enough of the blade size you need for the job.

However here's another plan. Now I like Pilchards very much and the very small tins of the Glenryck ones are enough for an ideal snack, on toast, with a salad or for sandwiches. I have one of these unopened and have just measured its diameter with my hernia gauge and it says 2'' OD, which if a slit slot were cut with scissors lengthwise up it to dodge the keyway slot it would sit snuggly around the prop shaft. Batavia reckoned that the shafts wear at the position in question was about 0.4mm wear plus some in the taperlocks bore too, so I reckon one of these small Glenryck pilchard tins would be ideal, and so at 65p per tin at Sainsburys and possibly even cheaper elswhere and with the added benefit of a tasty snack to boot yum, yum. And if Happy bunny stocked up with several tins she get lots of tasty snacks plus several spare tin shimming for her propshaft.

I think there's a Sainsbury in Berkhampstead, also Tescos and Waitrose.

I could even open my tin and have pilchards on toast for supper and could even mail the empty tin to her, with the end caps cut off, slit and flattened out it would fit nicely in an envelope and go 2nd class post and would look a bit like like a Christmas card if I left the red coloured label on, although a pilchard is depicted on it with the usual little logo stating OMEGA 3. OMEGA 3! now that has a very good engineering sound to it too. Those little tins are very useful for all manner of things. I always save them.

 

Hmmmm ... "i'll have a fishy on a little dishy" ..... looks like pilchards on toast for second breakfasts... and lunch ... and dinner ..... fortunately, I am very partial to small fishes, always keeping a minimum of two tins in my storecupboard (along with a few, well five, of those part baked loaves, just in case .... ) ....

 

but I buy from poundland or BM home bargains ... 2 for £1 ... BUT any excuse to go for a blat on my little KE ... and as my wayward son has finally gone corporate and started working for "the man" ... in the "experimental kitchens" at Sainsbury's no less ..... I shall be shopping there in future .... as an aside, it all sounds a bit Heston Blumenthal to me .... experimental ktchens

 

now where are my tin snips ..... i am a bit "old skool" when it comes to feeler gauges, preferring the rizla paper method

 

So I hope to have the parts in my sweaty little paws later today .... tomorrow I shall be attending a support group for those who have addiction issues with small fish ... and eating what I hope will be the first of many "with all the trimmings" festive lunches (not a pilchard in sight) .... and on monday .... i shall be on it like the old car bonnet .....

 

[RLWP]

The lid of a cat food tin I just picked up in the kitchen is 0.2mm

 

Beer cans have a lot of smooth, non corrugated material in the sides, and can be cut with ordinary scissors

 

Richard

Edited December 14, 2013 by RLWP

[HappyBunny]

The lid of a cat food tin I just picked up in the kitchen is 0.2mm

 

Beer cans have a lot of smooth, non corrugated material in the sides, and can be cut with ordinary scissors

 

Richard

 

We'll have NO cat food on board Herbidacious .... no sir-ee ....... I am no crazy cat lady .... a few tinnys on the other hand .....

 

I have a mental image of you Richard, verniers in hand ... rifling through the kitchen cupboards ..... but useful information no less

thanks

 

[HappyBunny]

Hmmm ... well after consuming a large quantity of pilchards .. procuring the necessary parts ... and Chris from Batavia very generously spending some time here this morning ....

 

we reached a point where the new taperlock slid onto the shaft .... the bafflingly oversized key fitted into the slot ....

 

and with great excitement offered it up ....

 

only to find the the bit with the propeller on didn't line up with the bit coming out of the gear box .... by quite a long way

 

Closer inspection of the engine mounts revealed that the cause of the problem lies there and the engine has slumped meaning the shafts are out of alignment .....

 

.... so i am now waiting for the phone to charge and start ringing engineers ......

[Batavia]

It looks as though the coupling was originally fitted without a key and as the shaft/bush slipped and wore way, it was just tightened up until the wear between the two was about 1.5 mm. At that point, someone hammered in a key that was about 1/16" too high and all was well-ish until the recent failure.

 

The mis-alignment between the two halves of the coupling is at least 6 mm laterally and goodness knows what angular-ly.

 

The engine mount issue just compounds the problem!

 

Chris G

[Chalky]

From my limited knowledge I believe that the Fenner type tyre coupler can stand that level of misalignment without problems.

 

• Large misalignment capability, 4° angular, up to 6mm parallel and 8mm axial

http://www.fptgroup.com/fenner.asp?title=&pageid=2672

[HappyBunny]

From my limited knowledge I believe that the Fenner type tyre coupler can stand that level of misalignment without problems.

 

• Large misalignment capability, 4° angular, up to 6mm parallel and 8mm axial

http://www.fptgroup.com/fenner.asp?title=&pageid=2672

 

Gosh .... truly a flexible friend ... thank you ... think I need to sort the engine mount issues though ....

 

couple more pics for anyone into flexible coupling porn .... and maybe this will finally shame me into getting the dank hole that is my engine bay cleaned up

 

 

[Albion]

From my limited knowledge I believe that the Fenner type tyre coupler can stand that level of misalignment without problems.

 

• Large misalignment capability, 4° angular, up to 6mm parallel and 8mm axial

http://www.fptgroup.com/fenner.asp?title=&pageid=2672

Whilst such a coupling may be capable of tolerating such severe misalignment it doesn't make sense to start it off at such extreme misalignment. IMO, starting at as close to perfect as can be reasonably obtained allows for any shift in engine mounts etc in the future. It also must make sense to reduce the running stress on the new component as much as possible.

Roger