Best type of diesel to burn?

[Tony Brooks]

The road diesel additive is FAME. It starts as one form of vegetable oil or another but goes through a chemical reaction and cleaning process to make FAME. It will also be produced to a EN 14214 (unless the standard has altered since I researched it).

 

I am sure the friends "bio-diesel" will not be tested to comply with EN 14214.

 

If you read the bio-forums you will far too often find that the so called bio-diesel individuals use are simply filtered vegetable oil with things like white spirit and other additives mixed in. Bio-diesel does not seem to be a term that has any specification associated with it unless the specification is stated as in EN 14214.

 

The FAME making process produces quantities of glycerin that has to be disposed of. Part of that may be from the reaction chemicals but the other

part comes form the vegetable oil being processed.

[ziggyman]

its definitely fame as my friend uses transesterification to produce it, he adds methanol and a catalyst (sodium methylate) and then draws off the glycerol and then washes/filters it before its ready for use. I spoke to Uptown oils who are one of the largest bio producers in London and they confirmed this is right but it would be soooo nice if someone come on and said they use bio in a diesel heater. If not does anyone know what residual do you get left over when u burn red diesel? do u get a sticky substance at the bottom?

[Phil Ambrose]

I am confused, last time I read about using recycled cooking oil(2 or 3 years ago) it was filtered and mixed with white spirit, is this the same stuff

Phil

[ziggyman]

and its almost impossible for any biodiesel producer to reach the EN standard as the feedstock is always different on each batch you make

no biodiesel is not mixed with white spirit, you heat the used cooking oil to 65 degrees, add methanol and a catalyst and mix for 2 hours, draw off the glycerol and then filter!

[Dave Payne]

Can you tell me why you think this? I had a 1998 LDV Convoy for a number of years and ran it for a lot of them on home made biodiesel and I am almost sure it had a Lucas pump. Of course I may be having memory failure which is I admit quite possible.

 

 

Pop along to this forum, lots and lots of posts on why you should not run a lucas pump on SVO. I did run one Lucas pump on SVO but only for about 1 week, its to do with the SVO being to thick to lube the shaft, causing it to break.

 

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=9

 

 

I also had an old LDV convoy, mine had a Bosch.

[Phil Ambrose]

and its almost impossible for any biodiesel producer to reach the EN standard as the feedstock is always different on each batch you make

 

no biodiesel is not mixed with white spirit, you heat the used cooking oil to 65 degrees, add methanol and a catalyst and mix for 2 hours, draw off the glycerol and then filter!

Thanks for that, a vague memory is coming back to me about an aricle in WW about someone running a vintage engine on the stuff I described (I think) also think it had to be heated before injection into the engine.....think I'll stick with red

Phil

[Jerra]

I also had an old LDV convoy, mine had a Bosch.

Thanks for that! As I remember it 1998 - 2001 had Lucas prior to that Bosch and after that I haven't a clue, but as I said I may be wrong.

[Dave Payne]

you could be right, mine was 94 i think.... there are people that have run lucas pumps for several thousands of miles, but there are more that didnt make it past 100 miles, its just not worth the risk...

[Ex- Member]

A lot depends on the particular engine, I well recall Mercedes 190E 2.5L diesel owners mixing neat veg oil with half a tank of regular diesel straight from the supermarket and into the tank. One owner used it neat but had to start & run the engine first on proper diesel and then switched to veg oil when engine was hot, the veg oil also went through a heat exchanger to warm it up before reaching the pump & injectors, the car ran like a dream for years.

 

I have put veg oil in the stove diesel tanks but not in large quantities, I did come across a 25liter container full once which was 3/4 full I topped the 200l bow tanks up with regular diesel and never noticed the difference. I'v often chucked the odd litre or so in my wee van too when there's a good amount of derv in it.

 

Unfortunately veg oil has been hiked in price for some years now to match derv, so I'm not buying it from supermarkets before anyone asks.

 

We occasionally do house clearances though, foods and all that get thrown away, so it's a good way of getting rid of any veg oil left behind, it's surprising how much people have in their larders.

 

I would certainly try bio diesel/veg oil if the price was right, there's not much that won't burn well if mixed 50/50 or more with proper diesel. I've also thrown in used engine oil in the bow tanks but filtered it first.

[Dave Payne]

i used 100% WVO in my old BMW for 8 months, like you say was a nightmare in the cold to start, and i had all sorts of problems, but then i was doing 300 miles a day for work so the saving was worth it...

 

In the end however it did kill the car, it smelt of oil really bad and the stuff gets everywhere and sticks to everything..

[Naughty Cal]

Thanks for that, a vague memory is coming back to me about an aricle in WW about someone running a vintage engine on the stuff I described (I think) also think it had to be heated before injection into the engine.....think I'll stick with red

Phil

Ah but what is your red made up of?

 

We found out that our usual supplier is using white road diesel (DERV) coloured red at source which of course now has a percentage of bio diesel within the fuel make up.

[Alastair]

veg oil or biodiesel has a much higher viscosity than red diesel so it would be highly unlikely to work in any diesel stove that relies on an injector (without replacing the injector nozzle). The viscosity also changes a great deal when the oil warms up, so there would be issues there with tuning the air/fuel mix in the burner. If you have a preheater on the fuel inlet then you might get decent results but it would take a bit of fiddling and replacing injector nozzles.

 

In a drip-feed stove then you would have to be more careful to pre-heat the stove before letting in the fuel. As long as you tuned the burn to 'blue flame' then I see no reason why it shouldn't burn quite well.

[jake_crew]

All road fuel is bio even if it doesn't say so (as permitted by law).

 

Petrol can have up to 5% ethanol content.

 

Diesel has up to 5% veg oil content.

 

It is debateable what you get bio-wise and sulphur-wise when you buy "red diesel" at a boatyard.

 

The only way to stay bio-free is to use proper heating oil.

[Phil Ambrose]

Ah but what is your red made up of?

 

We found out that our usual supplier is using white road diesel (DERV) coloured red at source which of course now has a percentage of bio diesel within the fuel make up.

What I meant was thar I wasn't going to faff around mixing lotions and potions and just keep using red from my usual supplier and accept I will be using whatever happens to pass for red at the time Phil Edited December 3, 2013 by Phil Ambrose

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for that, a vague memory is coming back to me about an aricle in WW about someone running a vintage engine on the stuff I described (I think) also think it had to be heated before injection into the engine.....think I'll stick with red

Phil

And I think he is a member of this forum and was also on the local TV news

Our ex mooring warden use to burn straight used engine oil in his drip feed burner so a lot depends on what you are trying to burn it in. I have a Dickinson that runs on red diesel, There is not half the crap collecting in the burner pot as there was 5 years ago.

[peterboat]

I used it as a mix with kero in my bubble stove the bio I bought was a failed batch and was very cheap about £200 for a thousand litres it mixed well with the kero and burnt well wish I could get more. Dave my contact for it used it in his garage heaters and was happy as well

 

Peter

[Ex- Member]

I used it as a mix with kero in my bubble stove the bio I bought was a failed batch and was very cheap about £200 for a thousand litres it mixed well with the kero and burnt well wish I could get more. Dave my contact for it used it in his garage heaters and was happy as well

 

Peter

 

I popped to a local garage that we bought heating oil or Kero from last year. Was annoyed to find it's now 84ppl when last year it was 72ppl I recently had the tanks filled with Red delivered to the boat by fuel boat for 82ppl I think the local garage is just charging more as they don't sell that much. I still bought it though as it does burn better even when mixed with Red

[ditchcrawler]

 

I popped to a local garage that we bought heating oil or Kero from last year. Was annoyed to find it's now 84ppl when last year it was 72ppl I recently had the tanks filled with Red delivered to the boat by fuel boat for 82ppl I think the local garage is just charging more as they don't sell that much. I still bought it though as it does burn better even when mixed with Red

Red was 80p on the North Oxford last week for heating, unfortunately they were closed on Saturday