are vetuses really that bad?

[Ally Charlton]

Hello all

 

Saw this boat:

 

http://rugbyboats.co.uk/Trads/traditional-narrow-boat-built-by-colecraft-for-sale.html

 

really liked the look of it (online at least) and then noticed Dominic saying "vetus" in the walk through, searched the forms and got seriously put off because of this engine.

 

Are they really something to be avoided at all costs?

 

the posts seem to suggest that there are design faults which could cause overheating problems, catastrophic surely!!!!

 

posts also seem to suggest that vetus parts are prohibitively expensive but can be substituted with Mitsubishi parts?

 

I am doubly concerned as the advert for this boat suggests that this boat has been continuously cruised for 18months

 

Any comments appreciated

[Paul C]

In general there's nothing particularly worse or better than other marinised industrial/tractor/small diesel engines eg Beta, Canaline, Isuzu but their parts to seem to be more expensive than others.

 

There's possibly known faults with the occasional specific engine, but certainly not across the whole Vetus range of engines. Maybe its best posting links to the threads which put you off; or asking Dominic for further details etc.

[Titus]

I had a Vetus Mitsubushi on my last boat and it was a cracking engine, as long as it was serviced regularly it ran fine.

[Tony Brooks]

The base engine is Mitsubishi so is good. The Vetus sourced stuff they hang on it to make it a marine engine less so and definitely expensive.

 

One particular gearbox has problems running out of gear for long periods so is not much use for typical canal use and it is reported that Vetus have refused warranty claims because the engine in question had been run out of gear for too long.. They also fit/fitted an electric fuel pump with a stupidly small filter inside. Is OK if you know about it and have a primary filter before it. Again not very bright.

 

As long as I could get non-Vetus parts (including the electrical parts) and the gearbox was a PRM I would have one if I liked the boat.

 

It would also be a good idea to make sure the cooling system modification (if appropriate) has been done or get it dome.

[Pete & Helen]

The base engine is Mitsubishi so is good. The Vetus sourced stuff they hang on it to make it a marine engine less so and definitely expensive.

 

One particular gearbox has problems running out of gear for long periods so is not much use for typical canal use and it is reported that Vetus have refused warranty claims because the engine in question had been run out of gear for too long.. They also fit/fitted an electric fuel pump with a stupidly small filter inside. Is OK if you know about it and have a primary filter before it. Again not very bright.

 

As long as I could get non-Vetus parts (including the electrical parts) and the gearbox was a PRM I would have one if I liked the boat.

 

It would also be a good idea to make sure the cooling system modification (if appropriate) has been done Tor get it dome.

 

Tony, What cooling modification are you referring too. I'm sure the rest of the Ventus engine crowd would like to know more and how to check theirs has been done or what to do, Thanls

Edited October 19, 2013 by Pete & Helen

[dor]

Nothing wrong with the engines. The Technodrive gearboxes are crap though. And parts are ridiculously expensive, even by marinised engine scales.

[Guest]

Cooling mods I did to my vetus 415 are here:

http://destinynarrowboat.weebly.com/vetus.html

There are different ways of doing it, and in some cases the mod wasn't even required. I have had to change the filler neck on the heat exchanger too, which I did quite recently, and haven't updated the site yet.

I have had this boat with a Vetus engine for close on ten years and 2000 cruising (NOT charging) hours. I wouldn't be put off a boat if it had a Vetus engine, but if I were building from scratch I would consider other options. It is true that vetus advise against prolonged running out of gear, and I have a copy of their email to that effect somewhere. I find the gearbox rather noisy on engaging gears, though it has been 100% reliable.

 

Edit : Just noticed that it is a Vetus 414 in the ad. and not the later 415/417 series. Don't know a great deal about these, so the above may not necessarily apply. My mate put a 414 in his boat many years ago, and swore by it. That was three boats ago though!

Edited October 19, 2013 by Guest

[PaddingtonBear]

Talk to Dominic, he posts on here and not withstanding that he is a fine chap and a rareity as a boat broker..... honest.

[Richard10002]

I've got a Vetus 4.14 on my boat. It's done about 2000 hrs according to the clock. I've owned it for 2 years of its 12 years, and it hasnt missed a beat. It also looks like it did the day it was fitted. My surveyor described it, but said nothing negative about it.

[Guest]

I've got a Vetus 4.14 on my boat. It's done about 2000 hrs according to the clock. I've owned it for 2 years of its 12 years, and it hasnt missed a beat. It also looks like it did the day it was fitted. My surveyor described it, but said nothing negative about it.

Purely out of interest, do you know what gearbox was fitted to the 414? Cheers.

[MtB]

I thought you decided previosly you absolutely HAD to have a chuffy engine!

 

There's no way a Vetus fits this...

 

 

MtB

[kevinl]

Just a case of "give a dog a bad name", if you repeat something long enough it becomes fact. I've had a Vetus for 6 years without a problem, the guy I bought it of had it 5 years before that and said it was the best engine he'd had so it's at least 11 years in this boat but it's a 1980's built engine. Vetus engines mainly go in seagoing yachts where an unreliable engine really matters and they have a generally good reputation. Currently Dottyshirl's out there with a Barrus it doesn't prove they're a bad engine. Looks like a nice boat for the money, I wouldn't let the engine put me off.

K

[Odana]

My last boat had one and it was great. As a 3 cylinder, it was a bit 'bouncy' and under a cruiser stern noiser than some, but it never let me down in 12 years

[OldGoat]

Vetus sell mainly / mostly to the rag and stick brigade, who are used to paying top prices for their stuff.

I'm guessling that the engine marinizations are for auxiliary engines to get the boat back into harbour, consequently they aren't stressed as much as a canal transmission would be. Hence the Technodrive gearbox.....

 

Some of the stuff that Vetus source is good. But all of it is very much Vetu$$$$

[Guest]

Just a case of "give a dog a bad name", if you repeat something long enough it becomes fact. I've had a Vetus for 6 years without a problem, the guy I bought it of had it 5 years before that and said it was the best engine he'd had so it's at least 11 years in this boat but it's a 1980's built engine. Vetus engines mainly go in seagoing yachts where an unreliable engine really matters and they have a generally good reputation. Currently Dottyshirl's out there with a Barrus it doesn't prove they're a bad engine. Looks like a nice boat for the money, I wouldn't let the engine put me off.

K

We can only speak as we find. My Vetus is similar age to yours and is a very reliable unit. Unbelievably good starter even in those winters a couple of years back, and very clean running engine. I have however had to do various modifications to overcome some niggling problems with the cooling system. I also fitted a Thornycroft air filter, as Vetus don't actually fit an air filter. I have had it suggested that canal boats don't need an air filter, though have been surprised at the state of the filter after twelve months (not just dog hairs.) Perhaps I was unlucky?

[mrsmelly]

Hi

 

The base engine is very good but vetus marinisation is crap and even though its crap it is also very very very expensive for parts. I have had lister/beta/bukh/bmc on my private boats and at present a vetus. At work we have fords/john deere/volvo and perkins. We also have lots of other vetus kit including steering and bowthrusters. In my opinion vetus are overpriced and over here !!

BUT I wouldnt let it put you off, I still bought this boat obviously knowing it had a vetus fitted as its not too big a deal and after a few mods its absolutely fine, just find yourself a supplier of service items there are plenty out there with sensible pricing.

As a bye the way Dominic is unique in the world of boat sales in that he is totaly honest and can sleep at night

 

Tim

[Timleech]

Vetus sell mainly / mostly to the rag and stick brigade, who are used to paying top prices for their stuff.

I'm guessling that the engine marinizations are for auxiliary engines to get the boat back into harbour, consequently they aren't stressed as much as a canal transmission would be. Hence the Technodrive gearbox.....

 

Some of the stuff that Vetus source is good. But all of it is very much Vetu$$$$

 

 

Vetus do offer alternative boxes, for extra money, but that's no help to someone looking at second hand boats and of course most builders will buy the stock unit to keep their final price down/profits up.

 

Tim

[Guest]

I hope member DOR won't mind me saying this, but he fitted a hydraulic PRM and a Python drive to his Vetus. The difference compared to mine is stunning, in that there is no sound when engaging gears.

[dor]

I hope member DOR won't mind me saying this, but he fitted a hydraulic PRM and a Python drive to his Vetus. The difference compared to mine is stunning, in that there is no sound when engaging gears.

And it is still working well Cat!

 

Vetus sell 96% of their engines to the salty water market. Think of a boat going out fishing for a day, it probably only engages/disengages the drive a handful of times. Now consider a narrowboat going up 15 locks of the Audlem flight where in two hours you probably engage/disengage drive a 100 times. This is why Technodrive gearboxes are fine for salty water but have their limitations on canals. Same goes for the lubrication issue where that 96% are very unlikely to run their engines out of gear for extended periods. Trouble is, if you specify a PRM150 then Vetus add the cost of the gearbox to the standard engine/Technodrive rather than making an allowance for the Technodrive box, which I don't think are that much different in price to the PRM.

[Richard10002]

Purely out of interest, do you know what gearbox was fitted to the 414? Cheers.

Just had a look at my survey and it says Hurth HBW100.

[Guest]

Just had a look at my survey and it says Hurth HBW100.

Cheers, Richard. They must have switched to Technodrive later on, then. I think Hurth may have been an option on my 415, but I didn't know at the time.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Guest

[PhilR]

And it is still working well Cat!

 

Vetus sell 96% of their engines to the salty water market. Think of a boat going out fishing for a day, it probably only engages/disengages the drive a handful of times. Now consider a narrowboat going up 15 locks of the Audlem flight where in two hours you probably engage/disengage drive a 100 times. This is why Technodrive gearboxes are fine for salty water but have their limitations on canals. Same goes for the lubrication issue where that 96% are very unlikely to run their engines out of gear for extended periods. Trouble is, if you specify a PRM150 then Vetus add the cost of the gearbox to the standard engine/Technodrive rather than making an allowance for the Technodrive box, which I don't think are that much different in price to the PRM.

 

I understand exactly what you are saying, but I would have thought that a big percentage of these *salty water* engines will be fitted to sailing boats. In many of those cases the engines will be mainly used for maneuvering into/out of harbour + a fair bit of battery charging in harbour. So I assume the Technodrive gearbox is also unsuitable for sailors? ...... unless they engage a gear when battery charging.

[Ally Charlton]

thanks for all your opinions. Went to luck at Bramble this afternoon. 100mile round trip!!! Lovely boat and really helpful staff at Rugby but unfortunately not for us :-( although I have to say that this decision had less to do with the engine in the end and had more to do with having to walk crablike and sideways down the boat once past the galley. Can I ask changing topic slightly, are the corridors on non walk through boats of a standard width?, both me and my husband really struggle to get down them.

[Guest]

 

I understand exactly what you are saying, but I would have thought that a big percentage of these *salty water* engines will be fitted to sailing boats. In many of those cases the engines will be mainly used for maneuvering into/out of harbour + a fair bit of battery charging in harbour. So I assume the Technodrive gearbox is also unsuitable for sailors? ...... unless they engage a gear when battery charging.

Don't know so much about salty boats, but don't many have a saildrive as opposed to a NB type gearbox?

 

Even coming into and out of harbours, I can't see the gears being engaged/disengaged as much as when we do the Wigan flight of locks for example a few times a season. We can do several hundred locks in a season; how many gear shifts would that be?

 

Don't know much about battery charging at sea.

 

On the subject of the Technodrive box/battery charging, I did email Vetus about this some years ago. They seemed to suggest that it was idling that caused problems, and if the engine must be run out of gear for some time, then raise the revs a little. I try not to let it idle out of gear, but have followed this advice raising revs to about 1000-1100 revs. No probs. after ten years, but I do mostly use a genny for stationary charging.

thanks for all your opinions. Went to luck at Bramble this afternoon. 100mile round trip!!! Lovely boat and really helpful staff at Rugby but unfortunately not for us :-( although I have to say that this decision had less to do with the engine in the end and had more to do with having to walk crablike and sideways down the boat once past the galley. Can I ask changing topic slightly, are the corridors on non walk through boats of a standard width?, both me and my husband really struggle to get down them.

The one on our boat is quite narrow. It was inevitable in our case, but walk through gives more shoulder room.

[alan_fincher]

Can I ask changing topic slightly, are the corridors on non walk through boats of a standard width?, both me and my husband really struggle to get down them.

If there is a corridor, doesn't that actually make the boat "walk through", rather than "non walk through"?

 

Though I think I know what you mean!

 

If the boat has a decent "tumble-home", (inward slope of the cabin), and the corridor is at the side, then it needs to be quite narrow, if the resultant "room" to the side of it is going to have maximum usable space. Wide corridor implies narrow bathroom, for example.

 

This probably affects tall broad shouldered types more than those who are shorter, because it brings your shoulders up into the narrowest part.

 

The alternative is walking through the middle of things like bathrooms, and this is a very personal choice. i think so- called "walk through" bathrooms actually mean a less "walk through" boat, because when anyone is in there with the doors shut, you can't.

 

I'd rather be able to pass down a narrow corridor at any time, than find a barricade when I need to ass through the boat, but as i say, it is personal preference and individual circumstances. if you ere alone on a boat most of the time then walk through bathrooms are not going to inconvenience you when you are!