CRT - NEW BOATING GUIDELINES PROPOSED FOR KENNET & AVON CANAL

[dew]

I've just received my copy of this document and I must say I am extremely impressed with it.

• CRT have clearly recognised that on the western K&A, things are done slightly differently to on much of the canal network (or at least, so I gather from speaking to people on here from other areas).
• Clarification of what constitutes a "place" is welcome in my eyes. The definitions are roughly what I and most others I know have been using previously and in a couple of cases add places that I wouldn't have previously considered (I used to wonder whether staying at Dundas straight after Claverton was ok, now I know that it is).
• 20km per year seems like a pretty reasonable (even slightly generous) guidline for yearly cruising range.
• The sort of Pay and Display system at visitor moorings does at first glance seem a little out of place, but it is important to note that it doesn't actually change the current usage, only provides an extra option. It also implies that the charge may be reduced from the £25/£50 currently signposted.
• Making debt collection for visitor mooring overstaying seperate from license fee renewal is going to reduce the number of horror stories in the press about unfair enforcement and save money on lifting out boats.
• Allowing us easy access to our own CRT cruising records is nice.
• I'm not sure what form "anonymised cruising records" made available to the public will take. I'm fine with publishing of statistis, but not ok with publishing of my individual records with just the name removed.
• The clarification of the process for dealing with exceptional circumstances preventing movement is welcome.
• The overall tone is polite and friendly, rather than the rude and confrontational communication that previously seemed the norm.

So overall, I would like to say a big thank you to CRT!

I've never been down there but would like to visit one day and agree, this seems very (almost too much) like a common sense approach. So thumbs up from me.

[luctor et emergo]

I wont comment on the proposal, but i will agree that the Western K&A is absolutely gorgeous. I will miss it.

[Sir Nibble]

Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Under this plan I can append the year between BOA and Avoncliffe so long as I make a weekend outing to Devizes and another to Bath at some point in the year.

What am I missing?

[madcat]

I agree we need younger boaters and liveaboards seem to be the youngest boat owners about for the most part. I'm a bit keen on loud rock music so not a hit with the beige sort of boater.

[luctor et emergo]

Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Under this plan I can append the year between BOA and Avoncliffe so long as I make a weekend outing to Devizes and another to Bath at some point in the year.

What am I missing?

Shhhh. <Another loophole>

 

[Nothing to see here... Move along now...]

[dmr]

Someone tell me why I'm wrong. Under this plan I can append the year between BOA and Avoncliffe so long as I make a weekend outing to Devizes and another to Bath at some point in the year.

What am I missing?

 

I believe there is still a requirement for a of progressive journey but over a reduced total range, so BOA to Avoncliff is an "ABA" (in CaRT terminology) so not allowed..

More interesting is that Bath to BOA (ABCDEFGFEDCBA) might be ok as long as there is also an annual trip to Foxhangers?.

We usually do Bath to BOA in either one or two days, but in the above scheme, with 14 days in each place, the return journey would actually take 6 months so that's getting pretty close to "real" continuous cruising.

Bath to FoxHangers and back, with two weeks at each place, is a years cruising (I bet this is no co-incidence) so although its not what I want to do its hard to argue that its not continuous cruising. We also start and finish at Bath each year but choose to go via Liverpool rather than Foxhangers, but thats our choice, and maybe when we are older we will only make it as far as Foxhangers.

 

The sad thing here is that if Paul Davies had done just a few extra miles he would still have his boat and CaRT would have saved a fortune in legal costs. In fact if I was Mr Davies I would be feeling a bit pissed off right now

 

............Dave

[Lady Muck]

I agree we need younger boaters and liveaboards seem to be the youngest boat owners about for the most part. I'm a bit keen on loud rock music so not a hit with the beige sort of boater.

Whether CRT like it or not, young, ccing liveaboards are the future of the waterways. I think it won't be long before the wealthy retired boater with a boat built to order is a rare thing, who is going to have a house to sell, a pension, or be able to retire young enough to do it?

[dmr]

Whether CRT like it or not, young, ccing liveaboards are the future of the waterways. I think it won't be long before the wealthy retired boater with a boat built to order is a rare thing, who is going to have a house to sell, a pension, or be able to retire young enough to do it?

 

No your wrong, there will be plenty, the canal will be full of wealthy retired CaRT managers who get to the age of 55 and suddenly become interested in boats.

 

..............Dave

[madcat]

I'm a big supporter of young liveaboards, the canals need the life and enthusiasm of youth.

[nb Innisfree]

I agree we need younger boaters and liveaboards seem to be the youngest boat owners about for the most part. I'm a bit keen on loud rock music so not a hit with the beige sort of boater.

When youngsters who like loud music get older they will want a bit of peace and quiet, I think that youngsters get the impression that they are the first generation to like loud music, when I was young in the 60s I liked it as loud as possible, now in my 60s and with a lower level of hormones and adrenaline I prefer a bit of peace and quiet, I've become 'beige' as all young generations do eventually.

 

I was thinking of the Barge at Honeystreet,, have not yet been to the live music at the 'shoes but its certainly got a superb jukebox and customers who work it well! Best not mention the bad pub.

 

.........Dave

Called in the Barge on the way past last week, we went in for a drink and see what to eat later, couldn't get away from the koud music, couldn't hear ourselves talk and had to take our drinks outside. Popped our heads in later to see if it was quieter, no chance, so ate on the boat instead, both times the pub was empty. Lovely old pub spoilt IMO.

Edited September 10, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[Sir Nibble]

I believe there is still a requirement for a of progressive journey but over a reduced total range, so BOA to Avoncliff is an "ABA" (in CaRT terminology) so not allowed..

More interesting is that Bath to BOA (ABCDEFGFEDCBA) might be ok as long as there is also an annual trip to Foxhangers?.

We usually do Bath to BOA in either one or two days, but in the above scheme, with 14 days in each place, the return journey would actually take 6 months so that's getting pretty close to "real" continuous cruising.

Bath to FoxHangers and back, with two weeks at each place, is a years cruising (I bet this is no co-incidence) so although its not what I want to do its hard to argue that its not continuous cruising. We also start and finish at Bath each year but choose to go via Liverpool rather than Foxhangers, but thats our choice, and maybe when we are older we will only make it as far as Foxhangers.

 

The sad thing here is that if Paul Davies had done just a few extra miles he would still have his boat and CaRT would have saved a fortune in legal costs. In fact if I was Mr Davies I would be feeling a bit pissed off right now

 

............Dave

That does presume that you spend a fortnight at every stop, that's a limit not a requirement. One day to Bath and back picking up a supermarket receipt to prove I've been there. 14 days Avoncliffe, 14 days BOA, one day to Devizes again picking up a receipt. One day back to BOA picking up fuel at Hilperton, repeat ad infinitum. You are correct in that this would have legitimised Davies. To me this looks like total surrender to the "NCCCs" and all the money spent in court has been wasted. Now, here we have a laid down pattern of limited cruising identified as compliant, boats will flock to the area and I for one would probably ditch my mooring and do the same. After all it's no more cruising than I would do anyway.

Piss takers and anglers will be well pleased with this.

[Jerra]

That does presume that you spend a fortnight at every stop, that's a limit not a requirement. One day to Bath and back picking up a supermarket receipt to prove I've been there. 14 days Avoncliffe, 14 days BOA, one day to Devizes again picking up a receipt. One day back to BOA picking up fuel at Hilperton, repeat ad infinitum. You are correct in that this would have legitimised Davies. To me this looks like total surrender to the "NCCCs" and all the money spent in court has been wasted. Now, here we have a laid down pattern of limited cruising identified as compliant, boats will flock to the area and I for one would probably ditch my mooring and do the same. After all it's no more cruising than I would do anyway.

Piss takers and anglers will be well pleased with this.

I don't know the area, but wouldn't something like that, in one area make it awfully difficult to claim it wasn't acceptable in another area?

[KenK]

 

I don't know the area, but wouldn't something like that, in one area make it awfully difficult to claim it wasn't acceptable in another area?

Yes, I agree you have hit the nail on the head. The report already talks about extending it to the rest of the K&A. Once you set a precedent in one area it would be difficult for C&RT to go to court arguing they didn't mean it to apply to the whole system.

 

Ken

[luctor et emergo]

So, which one would you like to see rolled out for the rest of the system?

The Uxbridge RMP (£££)

The K&A Boating Guidelines (free)

 

Answers on a postcard..

[KenK]

 

So, which one would you like to see rolled out for the rest of the system?

The Uxbridge RMP (£££)

The K&A Boating Guidelines (free)

 

Answers on a postcard..

The Uxbridge RMP, C&RT need money for maintenance. Once you set a precedent like this what stops everyone who currently has an online mooring giving them up and stating that they are CCers. The system is there for everyone to use, it doesn't matter how you use it but everyone should pay a contribution for its upkeep, if we do not then we won't have it. Once large numbers of boaters are seen to be getting a free ride then how do C&RT recover the loss, increase licence fees? Charge for visitor mooring?

How can it be fair when even a small number of boaters are allowed to moor for free when the rest have to pay, just because in the past they have refused to abide by the licence conditions to which they agreed when they applied for that licence?

In the short term this will benefit a small number of boaters in the longer term it will be bad for the rest of us.

 

Ken

[cotswoldsman]

So, which one would you like to see rolled out for the rest of the system?

The Uxbridge RMP (£££)

The K&A Boating Guidelines (free)

 

Answers on a postcard..

Lets see how they both work and then decide. The main thing is in both cases the boaters involved have been involved in the process. Just out of interest in the K&A one does that like the RMP allow boats to stay in one place without moving (Winter Mooring) for 5 months?

[sassan]

Lets see how they both work and then decide. The main thing is in both cases the boaters involved have been involved in the process. Just out of interest in the K&A one does that like the RMP allow boats to stay in one place without moving (Winter Mooring) for 5 months?

 

I don't believe it does, but we can still buy a winter mooring permit seperate from this arrangement.

[cotswoldsman]

 

I don't believe it does, but we can still buy a winter mooring permit seperate from this arrangement.

So Luctor was not really comparing like for like then?

dont get me wrong I have no problem with the K&A proposal if that is what boaters want but it is different to the RMP 2 different products so to speak

[Sir Nibble]

How long do these consultations normally take? My mooring fee is due soon and there is no way on Gods earth I'm paying for a mooring if this scheme comes off.

[jenlyn]

So, which one would you like to see rolled out for the rest of the system?

The Uxbridge RMP (£££)

The K&A Boating Guidelines (free)

Answers on a postcard..

Although the RMP is as you say £££, it's not got tc's that will put you before a kangaroo court and stick points on your licence. The k&a one seems to add another raft of rules and regs that are open to interpretation, and will probably get stuffed by some in its first 12 months.

How long do these consultations normally take? My mooring fee is due soon and there is no way on Gods earth I'm paying for a mooring if this scheme comes off.

This one is three months.