Problem what problem?

[Mick and Maggie]

There is quite a furore going on at the moment. No, not the old chestnut about the pros and cons of cassette over pump-out toilet system. That argument was settled a long time ago. The overwhelming evidence points to a macerator pump out as being the best option. The updated version of 'bucket and chuck it' that is a cassette is so old school and has been consigned to canal history.

However, in this instance the furore is one that has been fabricated about people overstaying on visitor moorings. Now I am a bit philosophical. I don't make the common assumption that everyone on a visitor mooring has overstayed. I have no idea at all if that is the case on arrival. Because we are out on our boat and away from our home territory. Unless I want to overstay on a mooring to monitor the comings and goings which would defeat the object. There is no way that I am going to actually know. So I make the assumption that it was just a bit of bad luck and I can either move on or ask someone if I can breast up to their boat.

With the best will in the world, there are other problems that need to be sorted out first. How many times have you come to a mooring to find boats not sharing mooring rings. This poor practice is leaving what was described as 'privacy gaps'. There is this notion bandied about of being a 'considerate' boater. But I have had boaters on visitor moorings refuse to move their boats closer and close up the 'privacy gap' to allow me enough space to moor. I have had people refuse to let me breast up when I have asked. In that instance, I don't have an axe to grind. Some people just do not like people walking across their front or back decks.

So what will the Canal and River Trust do to educate boaters on a more friendly etiquette. If boats around me move on and my boat becomes isolated in a gap, I will move the boat to make a single larger space. I will always share a ring. I offer to let other boats breast up alongside. I get taken up on the offer, about 50% of the time. But I don't wait to be asked I always offer.

Here the angler dry's his keepnet on the no fishing notice.

Yet at the same time there is another huge elephant in the room that I have come across many many times. But not only on visitor moorings, but on lock landings and water points. I have been greeted with shouts and arm waving, I have had threats to break my boat windows and other kinds of abuse such as maggots and ground-bait thrown at the boat. I don't see or know of any meaningful consultation taking place to address the issue. I don't see any suggestions such as on the spot £25 fines being levied against the miscreants. In this case the whole of a landing can be 'off limits' to boaters from early morning to late in the evening.

A second angler dry's his net.

This huge elephant is totally ignored by the Canal and River Trust. There is none so blind as those that will not see. The reason for this 'wilful blindness' is because your boat has a name and number. You can hardly pick up your boat and walk away. Fishermen can pack up their tackle and move on in no time at all. In other words boat owners are a soft and easy target. A rich source of incidental pickings for fines and charges.

Canal and River Trust North East Head Quarters
Fearns Wharf Neptune Street Leeds

So by way of example, the two fishermen in my example above are located on a river pontoon. The pontoon is clearly marked - No Fishing - and is located outside the offices of the Canal and River Trust at Fearns Wharf Leeds. A place where CaRT staff are walking by all day long. No enforcement here - well not unless you overstay on the pontoon. That'll be £25 please, kerching!

[Delta9]

I find morbidly querulous boaters to be far more annoying than fishermen, overstayers, cyclists, dog walkers etc...

 

Chill out and let others live their lives as they wish, you will find life to be much more enjoyable when you stop getting worked up over everything.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Delta9

[Guest]

I find morbidly querulous boaters to be far more annoying than fishermen, overstayers, cyclists, dog walkers etc...

 

Chill out and let others live their lives as they wish, you will find life to be much more enjoyable when you stop getting worked up over everything.

Moorings in Leeds are at a premium.

 

I can just imagine the aggro you would get if you asked them to move so you could moor up.

 

So it is something to get annoyed about, particularly as has been pointed out if you overstayed there CRT would be on you like a rash.

[Gingerbeer]

I see Mick and Maggie's point. I am someone who always obeys the signs because I never know who is looking. I also get really tired of those who think the rules apply to everyone else and not to them.

You can do two things here:

1. take the fisherman's picture, close up, and email it to CRT or print it off and tape it to their front door so someone sees it or tape copies to every window you can reach so they see it. The guy lives in the area for sure.

 

2. pull up to that mooring and if confronted, point to the sign. If too much agro happens, then get off the boat and walk to the CRT and tell them what is wrong. Don't tell the fisherman you are going or he will move and you have no proof. If the fisherman is really ignorant, then start banging on the side of your boat or hit the water with a pole or paddle....the fish hate that and will move away. (or better yet, moor a little ways away and feed the fish from the other side next to your boat)

 

As far as getting lip when you try to moor next to someone or ask them to move because there is no space, drop someone off before you get there while looking for a place. If nothing is found and no one wants to let you in cuz they are butt heads, then find a spot large enough for a gang plank, drop anchor there, throw out your rope and have that person who got off tie you up (the boat, I mean) and then get the gang plank out to the shore. Then just sit there. Sooner or later someone will move and you can be pulled in. I would, however, put a few little bells on your tie up rope just in case the A-holie decides to untie you at night.

 

Gosh, I don't even have a boat yet and feel the need to keep a large supply of water balloons, blow darts, and a small paint ball gun on board, when I do get one.

[BlueStringPudding]

 

There is quite a furore going on at the moment. No, not the old chestnut about the pros and cons of cassette over pump-out toilet system. That argument was settled a long time ago. The overwhelming evidence points to a macerator pump out as being the best option. The updated version of 'bucket and chuck it' that is a cassette is so old school and has been consigned to canal history.

However, in this instance the furore is one that has been fabricated about people overstaying on visitor moorings. Now I am a bit philosophical. I don't make the common assumption that everyone on a visitor mooring has overstayed. I have no idea at all if that is the case on arrival. Because we are out on our boat and away from our home territory. Unless I want to overstay on a mooring to monitor the comings and goings which would defeat the object. There is no way that I am going to actually know. So I make the assumption that it was just a bit of bad luck and I can either move on or ask someone if I can breast up to their boat.

With the best will in the world, there are other problems that need to be sorted out first. How many times have you come to a mooring to find boats not sharing mooring rings. This poor practice is leaving what was described as 'privacy gaps'. There is this notion bandied about of being a 'considerate' boater. But I have had boaters on visitor moorings refuse to move their boats closer and close up the 'privacy gap' to allow me enough space to moor. I have had people refuse to let me breast up when I have asked. In that instance, I don't have an axe to grind. Some people just do not like people walking across their front or back decks.

So what will the Canal and River Trust do to educate boaters on a more friendly etiquette. If boats around me move on and my boat becomes isolated in a gap, I will move the boat to make a single larger space. I will always share a ring. I offer to let other boats breast up alongside. I get taken up on the offer, about 50% of the time. But I don't wait to be asked I always offer.

Here the angler dry's his keepnet on the no fishing notice.

Yet at the same time there is another huge elephant in the room that I have come across many many times. But not only on visitor moorings, but on lock landings and water points. I have been greeted with shouts and arm waving, I have had threats to break my boat windows and other kinds of abuse such as maggots and ground-bait thrown at the boat. I don't see or know of any meaningful consultation taking place to address the issue. I don't see any suggestions such as on the spot £25 fines being levied against the miscreants. In this case the whole of a landing can be 'off limits' to boaters from early morning to late in the evening.

A second angler dry's his net.

This huge elephant is totally ignored by the Canal and River Trust. There is none so blind as those that will not see. The reason for this 'wilful blindness' is because your boat has a name and number. You can hardly pick up your boat and walk away. Fishermen can pack up their tackle and move on in no time at all. In other words boat owners are a soft and easy target. A rich source of incidental pickings for fines and charges.

Canal and River Trust North East Head Quarters

Fearns Wharf Neptune Street Leeds

So by way of example, the two fishermen in my example above are located on a river pontoon. The pontoon is clearly marked - No Fishing - and is located outside the offices of the Canal and River Trust at Fearns Wharf Leeds. A place where CaRT staff are walking by all day long. No enforcement here - well not unless you overstay on the pontoon. That'll be £25 please, kerching!

 

I'm with you on this. Some fisherman of course are absolutely fine, just like there are boaters who are. However since the Cycling & Running Trust are traipsing the towpaths with volunteers logging fines for boats, let's see them do the same to fisherman who block visitor moorings, locks and winding holes.

Edited August 25, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[Delta9]

 

1. take the fisherman's picture, close up, and email it to CRT or print it off and tape it to their front door so someone sees it or tape copies to every window you can reach so they see it. The guy lives in the area for sure.

 

2. pull up to that mooring and if confronted, point to the sign. If too much agro happens, then get off the boat and walk to the CRT and tell them what is wrong. Don't tell the fisherman you are going or he will move and you have no proof. If the fisherman is really ignorant, then start banging on the side of your boat or hit the water with a pole or paddle....the fish hate that and will move away. (or better yet, moor a little ways away and feed the fish from the other side next to your boat)

 

 

There is also a third thing you could do.

 

3. Pull up near to the fisherman and politely say "sorry mate, but I'm going to have to moor here as there is nowhere else available." approaching him in a friendly manner and explaining the situation should avoid confrontation.

 

Taking a photo of him , reporting him to the authorities, or just pointing at a sign, is going to piss him off and comes across as arrogant.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Delta9

[Neil2]

When I worked in local government we were forever fending off zealots wanting to stick notices everywhere telling folk what to do and what not to do. Apart from the issue about policing, there are certainly instances when erecting a notice can actually create or inflame a problem, and the reason is most people simply don't like being told what to do.

 

For instance, the town where I used to live went through a phase of erecting barriers and signs along the roads in the town centre which were designed to stop pedestrians crossing at certain points. I don't know about anyone else, but this sort of things drives me to distraction. I feel as an, ahem, mature adult I am perfectly capable of deciding where it is safe to cross a road without the interference of some town hall bureaucrat (bear in mind I used to be a town hall bureaucrat). So I would go out of my way to cross at the very points I was being excluded from.

 

So, taking the example of the anglers, we have a mooring pontoon, which is obviously meant to be for boats to tie up alongside. As a mature adult I don't need to be told that it's not a good idea to sit down and start fishing there, but blow me, some officious so and so has stuck a notice there telling me that. Now I'm not saying I would go out of my way to inconvenience others in this situation, but I can relate to the circumstances.

 

Now imagine the signs weren't there. There are no boats around, why shouldn't I do a bit of fishing from a convenient spot. Along comes a boat, heads for the pontoon, the skipper approaches with a " sorry mate, sods law eh, just when you get settled one of these stupid boats comes along..." or some similar sort of friendly, dare I say British approach, just like when someone barges into you in the street and you apologise. The angler is almost certain to respond in a similar fashion.

 

But sticking a sign up which, to paraphrase that great philosopher Basil Fawlty, states the bleedin' obvious, creates a situation where the angler starts off feeling bloody minded, is labelled as some sort of dangerous anarchist or at the very least an ignorant lout, and immediately any boater approaching the pontoon is spoiling for a fight.

 

Maybe I'm riding for a fall here, but I'm with Delta9 on this one. I've been in this situation particularly at locks, at if you approach it in a passive non confrontational way people are almost always obliging.

 

[Jerra]

Do you go out of your way to park on yellow lines?

[luctor et emergo]

If there is no sign to prohibit fishing, the angler is in his right to fish there, and you have no reason to expect him to move.

 

If an angler sits on a lock landing or such, I come in to land. It is up to them to move their gear out of the way in time. Which they always do.

 

Btw, I have no problem at all with anglers using the lock landing and such, becuase they are unused most of the time. As long as they move over when a boat needs to use the landing.

[Guest]

There is also a third thing you could do.

 

3. Pull up near to the fisherman and politely say "sorry mate, but I'm going to have to moor here as there is nowhere else available." approaching him in a friendly manner and explaining the situation should avoid confrontation.

 

Taking a photo of him , reporting him to the authorities, or just pointing at a sign, is going to piss him off and comes across as arrogant.

I can't see why helping somebody with their 'reading skills' is being arrogant.

 

Isn't it strange that the fishing persons seem to understand the 'no fishing' signs near low level high voltage power lines but don't seem to be able to understand them at lock landings and other locations.

 

Queer innit?

[eightacre]

I usually find that if I am polite to anglers, they are civilised people. If not, best to ignore them.

Please calm down..... it really isn't worth getting excited about.

[blackrose]

In some cases it's just a lack of consideration for others amongst boaters, anglers, cyclists, dog walkers, etc... Unfortunately that sort of selfish behaviour seems to be on the rise in our increasingly individualistic, instant gratification society. But you never can tell. I saw a fisherman on a lock landing on the K&A recently as I exited a lock. I wanted to shut the gates for the people behind me and felt frustrated that I couldn't moor up. To my surprise the angler got up from his seat, smiled and shut the lock gates for me.

[Theo]

There is also a third thing you could do.

 

3. Pull up near to the fisherman and politely say "sorry mate, but I'm going to have to moor here as there is nowhere else available." approaching him in a friendly manner and explaining the situation should avoid confrontation.

 

Taking a photo of him , reporting him to the authorities, or just pointing at a sign, is going to piss him off and comes across as arrogant.

If I could give you a greenie, I would. Why at to the total crossness in the world. Avoid this a far as possible. It is ages since I met a cross fisherman or one who would not move for me when I explained myself.

 

Nick

[Guest]

If I could give you a greenie, I would. Why at to the total crossness in the world. Avoid this a far as possible. It is ages since I met a cross fisherman or one who would not move for me when I explained myself.

 

Nick

Can anyone explain the advantage of fishing from areas where it is specifically prohibited.

 

If the twerps that do it didn't that would be a sure fire way of avoiding 'crossness'in the first place.

[Theo]

Can anyone explain the advantage of fishing from areas where it is specifically prohibited.

 

If the twerps that do it didn't that would be a sure fire way of avoiding 'crossness'in the first place.

Probly because pontoons and lock landings are nicely clear of nettles and have a nice flat surface upon which a fishing man can place the trolley load of paraphernalia that is necessary for him to catch that extra gudgeon.

[Delta9]

Can anyone explain the advantage of fishing from areas where it is specifically prohibited.

 

If the twerps that do it didn't that would be a sure fire way of avoiding 'crossness'in the first place.

Signs are often placed in the best fishing spots, level ground, next to flowing water at lock overflows etc...

 

Now can you explain why it makes you so cross when you could simply ask them to move.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Delta9

[Guest]

Probly because pontoons and lock landings are nicely clear of nettles and have a nice flat surface upon which a fishing man can place the trolley load of paraphernalia that is necessary for him to catch that extra gudgeon.

The match on the offside opposite our home mooring that has just finished seemed to manage just fine.

 

They managed to walk just fine, only yards from the road but none the less they managed to walk, and they have trolley's to carry all their bits.

 

Anything else is just either bloody mindedness or bloody laziness.

Signs are often placed in the best fishing spots, level ground, next to flowing water at lock overflows etc...

 

Now can you explain why it makes you so cross when you could simply ask them to move.

Why should ask some twerp to move that shouldn't be there in the first place....

[Delta9]

The match on the offside opposite our home mooring that has just finished seemed to manage just fine.

 

They managed to walk just fine, only yards from the road but none the less they managed to walk, and they have trolley's to carry all their bits.

 

Anything else is just either bloody mindedness or bloody laziness.

 

Why should ask some twerp to move that shouldn't be there in the first place....

Sounds to me like the stick up your ass has a stick up its ass.

 

Asking them politely will vastly reduce confrontation and make your life more pleasant. It really is such a small insignificant problem in the first place, there seems to be no good reason to whine about it so much.

[Rusty Shackleford]

The thing is, with any erected sign, you can only guess the history why it was erected. There could be some danger to the fishermen, boats or may be a residential noise thing or even an accident and somebody sued.....we really don't know. Sometimes a sign is just a sign informing you what you can or can't do, not a invitation to come up with a reason why it doesn't apply to you (the no mobile signs in petrol stations don't say why but people assume its about a spark fire risk, when it's mostly about paying attention.).

 

Personally I feel it's not a good advert for fisherman and others should be just as annoyed as boaters. No fishing is pretty clear and it's an obvious rule, it's etiquette for boats to slow down for fishermen angling. Anyway, I'm sure the sign in the photo reads 'No Fisting' anyway.

[waggers]

The match on the offside opposite our home mooring that has just finished seemed to manage just fine.

 

They managed to walk just fine, only yards from the road but none the less they managed to walk, and they have trolley's to carry all their bits.

 

Anything else is just either bloody mindedness or bloody laziness.

 

Why should ask some twerp to move that shouldn't be there in the first place....

agree, greenie

[Neil2]

Do you go out of your way to park on yellow lines?

No, but I'm certain the traffic wardens where I used to live thought so. Either that or I am a traffic warden magnet.

....Anyway, I'm sure the sign in the photo reads 'No Fisting' anyway.

Now that does need a sign...

[john6767]

There are rules that anglers should be following anyway http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/features/guidelines-for-fishing-along-canals-and-rivers so there is no excuse for some of the stuff you see. They are not all bad though, one happily move so we could moor at Kilby Bridge on Friday night.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

There is quite a furore going on at the moment. No, not the old chestnut about the pros and cons of cassette over pump-out toilet system. That argument was settled a long time ago. The overwhelming evidence points to a macerator pump out as being the best option. The updated version of 'bucket and chuck it' that is a cassette is so old school and has been consigned to canal history.

However, in this instance the furore is one that has been fabricated about people overstaying on visitor moorings. Now I am a bit philosophical. I don't make the common assumption that everyone on a visitor mooring has overstayed. I have no idea at all if that is the case on arrival. Because we are out on our boat and away from our home territory. Unless I want to overstay on a mooring to monitor the comings and goings which would defeat the object. There is no way that I am going to actually know. So I make the assumption that it was just a bit of bad luck and I can either move on or ask someone if I can breast up to their boat.

With the best will in the world, there are other problems that need to be sorted out first. How many times have you come to a mooring to find boats not sharing mooring rings. This poor practice is leaving what was described as 'privacy gaps'. There is this notion bandied about of being a 'considerate' boater. But I have had boaters on visitor moorings refuse to move their boats closer and close up the 'privacy gap' to allow me enough space to moor. I have had people refuse to let me breast up when I have asked. In that instance, I don't have an axe to grind. Some people just do not like people walking across their front or back decks.

So what will the Canal and River Trust do to educate boaters on a more friendly etiquette. If boats around me move on and my boat becomes isolated in a gap, I will move the boat to make a single larger space. I will always share a ring. I offer to let other boats breast up alongside. I get taken up on the offer, about 50% of the time. But I don't wait to be asked I always offer.

Here the angler dry's his keepnet on the no fishing notice.

Yet at the same time there is another huge elephant in the room that I have come across many many times. But not only on visitor moorings, but on lock landings and water points. I have been greeted with shouts and arm waving, I have had threats to break my boat windows and other kinds of abuse such as maggots and ground-bait thrown at the boat. I don't see or know of any meaningful consultation taking place to address the issue. I don't see any suggestions such as on the spot £25 fines being levied against the miscreants. In this case the whole of a landing can be 'off limits' to boaters from early morning to late in the evening.

A second angler dry's his net.

This huge elephant is totally ignored by the Canal and River Trust. There is none so blind as those that will not see. The reason for this 'wilful blindness' is because your boat has a name and number. You can hardly pick up your boat and walk away. Fishermen can pack up their tackle and move on in no time at all. In other words boat owners are a soft and easy target. A rich source of incidental pickings for fines and charges.

Canal and River Trust North East Head Quarters

Fearns Wharf Neptune Street Leeds

So by way of example, the two fishermen in my example above are located on a river pontoon. The pontoon is clearly marked - No Fishing - and is located outside the offices of the Canal and River Trust at Fearns Wharf Leeds. A place where CaRT staff are walking by all day long. No enforcement here - well not unless you overstay on the pontoon. That'll be £25 please, kerching!

I can understand your frustration.

But, if there's not a boat insight? Then fish on jolly angler. Fishermen have always moved when I've asked them to.

And to raise the old chestnut about fines/charges for over staying: has anyone on the forum ever been charged for over staying?

[Gingerbeer]

There is also a third thing you could do.

 

3. Pull up near to the fisherman and politely say "sorry mate, but I'm going to have to moor here as there is nowhere else available." approaching him in a friendly manner and explaining the situation should avoid confrontation.

 

Taking a photo of him , reporting him to the authorities, or just pointing at a sign, is going to piss him off and comes across as arrogant.

 

Oh my, I was only being sarcastic. Sorry if I have offended. Getting to know me is certainly going to be a learning curve.

 

But then again, if you cannot read signs then you are just part of the bigger picture of problem children. No dogs allowed in park...I step in poop. No noise after 9pm...party till 3am. Bicycle speed on towpath 4 mph...a herd of mountain bikers come riding through at break neck speed almost killing me and my dog. No parking in front of the building....there is a fire and the fire truck cannot get close enough. One way on a road...someone doesn't listen and has a head on collision. Signs are everywhere and we are becoming numb from them but we are still capable of understanding right from wrong and hopefully can still read.

 

Just to let you know....I would never say anything to hurt someone else, I hate confrontation (but it is getting easier), I always put the underdog first, I have a great deal of patience, and I always let live and let be unless it goes against my good nature or the law.

 

Not sure why taking a pic of the fisherman was a no no but the blow gun, water balloons, and paint gun seemed okay???

[Guest]

I can understand your frustration.

But, if there's not a boat insight? Then fish on jolly angler. Fishermen have always moved when I've asked them to.

And to raise the old chestnut about fines/charges for over staying: has anyone on the forum ever been charged for over staying?

I was once told by a fisher person that if he was there first he had the right to stay and his right to fish from the VM 'trumped' my right to moor.

 

It was only when I proceeded to continuing to moor and was about to crush his keep net did he back off.