Been looking at boats, can't decide!

[Laurie Booth]

Alison and myself looked and rented boats for a long time. We saw Clarrie, sat down in her, we looked at each other and went "this is it."

We have had her 16 years now and loved her so much.

 

Is it worth putting a lower offer on the Springer?

[Gingerbeer]

what is the difference between a flat bottom and a V hull when on a canal? I know the obvious difference but is one better than the other on some of the narrower and more shallow canals? Is one more tippy than the other? Still a newbie and still learn'n.

[Laurie Booth]

what is the difference between a flat bottom and a V hull when on a canal? I know the obvious difference but is one better than the other on some of the narrower and more shallow canals? Is one more tippy than the other? Still a newbie and still learn'n.

On my V hull Springer I can moor in closer to the bank when the water is shallow.

[mattlad]

The cruiser deck is better for when I have guests,

 

 

How often will that happen? Experience with my boat, family and friends boats suggests not very. In fact one of my boating friends (solo liveaboard) positively discourages guests.

 

You may take a guest occasionally but the majority of your boating will end up being as a couple or even solo. A cruiser stern is a lot less comfortable in bad weather.

[PaddingtonBear]

Blimey!, twice in one day!......agreed with TDH, must be cracking up. Springer, the other boat is not a livaboard as it wastes loads of space with the cruiser stern and outside steps.

[Guest]

Blimey!, twice in one day!......agreed with TDH, must be cracking up. Springer, the other boat is not a livaboard as it wastes loads of space with the cruiser stern and outside steps.

Worry not it's allowed, I don't think to do so is against the forum rules and guidelines just yet.

 

As to the boats, the more I look at the ads. the more I like the Springer.

[Neil2]

Having slept on it, I'm more inclined to put an offer in on the Hallmark. Although not as nice inside it's probably the more practical of the 2 boats. There's more storage space inside it, better cooking facilities. The cruiser deck is better for when I have guests, as is the third berth. £3K less should go a long way towards bringing the inside up to scratch. And it's 9 years younger. Plus the seller, who owns a boatyard, is prepared to make a mooring concession that will make my life as a continuous cruiser much easier.

 

The one thing that's niggling me is the engine. It sounded sweet when the seller started it, there were no plumes of smoke or anything. But having searched 'Vetus' on this site there seems to be a lot of negativity, particularly as regards the cost of spare parts. There's little or no documented history of the engine. I'm wondering whether it would be worth paying someone to look it over, perhaps make a satisfactory appraisal part of the agreement, as a satisfactory survey will be?

If you are concerned about the engine, and I would be just because of the state of the engine room, a quick and easy way to find out if there's any horrors lurking within is to get an oil analysis. All you do is draw off half a pint - most engines have a drain pump fitted - and you send it away to any of the many labs that advertise on the net. Costs about 40 quid. A good surveyor would do this for you of course. You can tell a lot about the state of the engine by what traces are within the oil, and there's no way a dodgy buyer can disguise it as even new oil, once the engine has been run to normal temperature, will show the traces.

[Ricco1]

Blimey!, twice in one day!......agreed with TDH, must be cracking up. Springer, the other boat is not a livaboard as it wastes loads of space with the cruiser stern and outside steps.

 

I was open minded about what type of boat to get, traditional or cruiser, but felt a traditional might be better to live on. But the traditional (the Springer) has a boatman's cabin at the back. This isn't much use really, other than for hanging coats and keeping cruising equipment. The Hallmark's steps are straight into the bedroom. Overall, despite being 2 or 3 feet shorter, the cruiser has a similar sized bedroom and bathroom. The galley is slightly smaller but the living area is slightly bigger. And the cruiser has slightly more storage space.

[junior]

If you are concerned about the engine, and I would be just because of the state of the engine room, a quick and easy way to find out if there's any horrors lurking within is to get an oil analysis. All you do is draw off half a pint - most engines have a drain pump fitted - and you send it away to any of the many labs that advertise on the net. Costs about 40 quid. A good surveyor would do this for you of course. You can tell a lot about the state of the engine by what traces are within the oil, and there's no way a dodgy buyer can disguise it as even new oil, once the engine has been run to normal temperature, will show the traces.

That's interesting, i've never heard of that before. Would this be worth doing if you were thinking of buying a boat with a vintage engine? What sort of things are you likely to learn? Enough to put you off buying the boat, or just enough to give you an idea of what you might need to get done soon after purchasing?

 

If you were going to have this done, would you ask the brokerage if it was ok to drain some oil as part of the viewing, or would you wait until the survey and then ask for the surveyor to sort it out? I assume if you aked the surveyor, you would have to wait longer than normal for his results as he would need to await the results back from the lab?

 

I'm interested in this as I am very inexperienced but thinking of buying a first boat with a vintage engine. It would be good for me to know as much as possible on purchase as I won't have the experience to spot things myself that others might be able to.

I was open minded about what type of boat to get, traditional or cruiser, but felt a traditional might be better to live on. But the traditional (the Springer) has a boatman's cabin at the back. This isn't much use really, other than for hanging coats and keeping cruising equipment. The Hallmark's steps are straight into the bedroom. Overall, despite being 2 or 3 feet shorter, the cruiser has a similar sized bedroom and bathroom. The galley is slightly smaller but the living area is slightly bigger. And the cruiser has slightly more storage space.

 

I've had a look at the ad and i'd be suprised if there is a boatmans cabin on that springer, I can't see that there would be room. If it does have somewhere to hang coats, ctusing equipment etc i'd personally consider that a plus point. With the hallmark boat you will have to keep all that sort of stuff in the bedroom no? Think about muddy towpaths in the winter, dirty mooring pins etc. Surely better to have a seperate area to keep all that stuff. A kind of porch or garden shed!

[Ricco1]

That's interesting, i've never heard of that before. Would this be worth doing if you were thinking of buying a boat with a vintage engine? What sort of things are you likely to learn? Enough to put you off buying the boat, or just enough to give you an idea of what you might need to get done soon after purchasing?

 

If you were going to have this done, would you ask the brokerage if it was ok to drain some oil as part of the viewing, or would you wait until the survey and then ask for the surveyor to sort it out? I assume if you aked the surveyor, you would have to wait longer than normal for his results as he would need to await the results back from the lab?

 

I'm interested in this as I am very inexperienced but thinking of buying a first boat with a vintage engine. It would be good for me to know as much as possible on purchase as I won't have the experience to spot things myself that others might be able to.

 

I've had a look at the ad and i'd be suprised if there is a boatmans cabin on that springer, I can't see that there would be room. If it does have somewhere to hang coats, ctusing equipment etc i'd personally consider that a plus point. With the hallmark boat you will have to keep all that sort of stuff in the bedroom no? Think about muddy towpaths in the winter, dirty mooring pins etc. Surely better to have a seperate area to keep all that stuff. A kind of porch or garden shed!

 

I'm inexperienced, it might not be a boatman's cabin. But there's an area before the bedroom that has various hooks on the wall etc. Not really big or high enough for proper storage, but accounts for a fair few feet of the boat's length. I was thinking of putting all the dirty stuff at the front, under the cratch cover. I know it's the other end of the boat and that's not perfect. I think if you're going to live on a 35ft boat, it's never going to be perfect. Perfect would probably be a good 15 foot longer but that's outside my budget. So I'm looking at a series of compromises really, and I accept that.

[Neil2]

That's interesting, i've never heard of that before. Would this be worth doing if you were thinking of buying a boat with a vintage engine? What sort of things are you likely to learn? Enough to put you off buying the boat, or just enough to give you an idea of what you might need to get done soon after purchasing?

 

If you were going to have this done, would you ask the brokerage if it was ok to drain some oil as part of the viewing, or would you wait until the survey and then ask for the surveyor to sort it out? I assume if you aked the surveyor, you would have to wait longer than normal for his results as he would need to await the results back from the lab?

 

I'm interested in this as I am very inexperienced but thinking of buying a first boat with a vintage engine. It would be good for me to know as much as possible on purchase as I won't have the experience to spot things myself that others might be able to.

 

 

Oil analysis will tell you all sorts of things, but you have to interpret the results in context. I know little about vintage engines but I suspect you might have to be a little more liberal in your interpretation of the results compared to a modern engine. But, bearing wear is bearing wear, regardless of the age of the engine and that is something an oil analysis will reveal.

 

The labs that do this usually advise what the presence of metals, carbon, water etc in the sample implies.

 

A vendor/broker should not object in the least to you sampling the oil on a boat for sale. If they did, you would just walk away wouldn't you?

 

Typically it takes around 3-5 days.

[Ange]

The one thing that's niggling me is the engine. It sounded sweet when the seller started it, there were no plumes of smoke or anything. But having searched 'Vetus' on this site there seems to be a lot of negativity, particularly as regards the cost of spare parts.

I know nothing about engines but be careful about searching for anything on this site and thinking, after reading lots of tales of woe, that it must be bad. People put up threads when they've got a problem and either need help or want a whinge. They may be a tiny percentage of people with that engine - the rest may have many trouble free years but you don't read about it because they don't need to ask a question or have a moan.

 

If you're serious about the boat it could be worth starting a new topic titled "Vetus engine good or bad?" and see what the balance is between negative and positive feedback.

[PaddingtonBear]

Worry not it's allowed, I don't think to do so is against the forum rules and guidelines just yet.

 

As to the boats, the more I look at the ads. the more I like the Springer.

Maybe not but it is certainly against the Great Helmsman's house rules.

[Guest]

There are some downsides to it though. The Hallmark has a grill and 2 hobs, the Springer just 2 hobs. I like my toast in the morning! The Hallmark's seating can be used as an occasional guest bed wheras the Springer has a sofa, which can't.

 

 

 

 

Going back to the issue about toasting and the cooking facilities on the Springer.

This is easily overcome as toast can be made on a gas hob using one of these ~

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FAMILY-CAMPING-TOASTER-4-COMPACT-GAS-STOVE-COOKING-/290522697241#vi-content

We used one as caravanners years ago and they work just fine.

 

As to the sofa - small boat sized sofa beds can be had for a few hundred quid new.

 

http://www.nabru.co.uk/boat_sofa_beds.php

 

Or cheaper used on eBay.

Edited August 12, 2013 by The Dog House

[adam1uk]

I was open minded about what type of boat to get, traditional or cruiser, but felt a traditional might be better to live on. But the traditional (the Springer) has a boatman's cabin at the back. This isn't much use really, other than for hanging coats and keeping cruising equipment. The Hallmark's steps are straight into the bedroom. Overall, despite being 2 or 3 feet shorter, the cruiser has a similar sized bedroom and bathroom. The galley is slightly smaller but the living area is slightly bigger. And the cruiser has slightly more storage space.

 

In the winter, you'd be glad of that extra room between the bedroom and the the outside. It makes your bedroom much warmer if you've got a buffer between you and the cold.

[Laurie Booth]

In the winter, you'd be glad of that extra room between the bedroom and the the outside. It makes your bedroom much warmer if you've got a buffer between you and the cold.

It really does help me in my Springer.

[Richard10002]

After all this discussion, if your heart hasn't settled on either of these yet, perhaps neither is "The One"?

[Laurie Booth]

After all this discussion, if your heart hasn't settled on either of these yet, perhaps neither is "The One"?

A good thought.

[Ricco1]

A second viewing confirmed it for me. Whilst the Springer was brighter and fresher the Hallmark was the boat for me. The space is better suited for my intended lifestyle. On reflection only viewing the Springer made me think that the Hallmark was lightly tired in appearance. It's not, it's nice. Everything is there that I need. The fact that it's newer, viewing close up pictures of its hull and talking to various people around the boatyard where its moored: I took a punt; I'm buying it without a survey.

 

I'm now arranging for a motorbike rack to be fitted, an engine service, new led lights, additional 12v sockets. I'll consider another battery, additional alternator, upgraded invertor and pram cover.

 

A week or two and I'll be on the water!

[Brin Morris]

I think you have made the right choice, The engine did have a full overhaul a few years ago so should be ok. It was also very well looked after up until a few years ago before the owner sold it. good luck

[MtB]

A second viewing confirmed it for me. Whilst the Springer was brighter and fresher the Hallmark was the boat for me. The space is better suited for my intended lifestyle. On reflection only viewing the Springer made me think that the Hallmark was lightly tired in appearance. It's not, it's nice. Everything is there that I need. The fact that it's newer, viewing close up pictures of its hull and talking to various people around the boatyard where its moored: I took a punt; I'm buying it without a survey.

 

I'm now arranging for a motorbike rack to be fitted, an engine service, new led lights, additional 12v sockets. I'll consider another battery, additional alternator, upgraded invertor and pram cover.

 

A week or two and I'll be on the water!

 

Pleeeease, don't.

 

Have you no shame?

 

 

MtB

[DaveC]

Nothing at all wrong with a pram hood cover on a cruiser (sociable) stern. If it isn't a vintage working boat why try to make it look like one! There is nothing traditional about the majority of so called trad boats.

 

 

 

Dave

[Neil2]

Nothing at all wrong with a pram hood cover on a cruiser (sociable) stern. If it isn't a vintage working boat why try to make it look like one! There is nothing traditional about the majority of so called trad boats.

 

 

 

Dave

I agree, in fact I'd go further and say a pram cover is pretty much essential on a cruiser, certainly in the northern half of the network and also if you spend much time on rivers. Anyone who has suffered a cold wet windswept day on the Bridgewater will confirm this...

 

And it's the only sure fire way to keep the bilge dry on most cruisers.

 

But it's a shame how many attractive boats are spoiled by an ugly cover, you get what you pay for.

[adam1uk]

I agree, in fact I'd go further and say a pram cover is pretty much essential on a cruiser, certainly in the northern half of the network and also if you spend much time on rivers. Anyone who has suffered a cold wet windswept day on the Bridgewater will confirm this...

 

And it's the only sure fire way to keep the bilge dry on most cruisers.

 

Some might see this as an argument against cruisers, rather than an argument for pram covers...

[Athy]

That Springer design was indeed marketed as the "Springer Tug". They were introduced about 1987. At that time, the more typical design was known as the Samson.

 

In a way, Hallmark were the Springers of their time, which was the late nineties and early noughties: they were supercheap to buy new and achieved the low price by economising on fittings (e.g. small fuel and water tanks, fewer rubbing strakes). I think they went under (as it were) due to over-spending on full-page adverts in the boatimags.

 

It's a relief to hear that you have finally made your choice (subject to survey, one hopes). Keep us informed of your progress!

Edited August 14, 2013 by Athy