Stoke Bruerne Visitor Moorings

[cotswoldsman]

John I think you are right and wrong IMO, there has been a large increase in the number of boats licensed in the last 10 years coupled with no increase in Visitor Moorings and a general decrease in available towpath mooring due to lack of dredging , overgrown trees, security etc. in addition due to the lack of physical presence of BW there has been limited policing of VM's leading to a small number but highly visible long term overstayers and a larger number of be temporary overstayers. IMO its the long term overstayers that tend to be CC'ers that the IWA have latched onto.

 

I don't believe the relatively small shift of boaters from home moorings to CC'ing has made a huge difference to this although as others have posted the increasing number of live aboards on long term moorings has led to more boats moving accross to LTM to the VM to sit nearer the water tap for extended periods Napton and Buckby are examples of this I've heard.

 

CRT made a concerted effort over a year ago ( don't think this was a result of hard work by any forum members happy to stand corrected) to focus on overstaying accross the network and this largely succeeded with many VM's having more space by early summer last year. Most VM's still have spaces now as the recent reports have shown.

 

The question to be answerered is the principle of fining boaters for overstaying necessary?? if it is then logic says this should be extended so why not the same fine for any boat that exceeds 14 days on the general towpath and so on., soon £25 becomes £50 reduced to £25 if paid within 14 days etc etc. then it becomes profitable to outsource it to NCP or similar as being piloted by the EA.

Yes my post might seem that I was saying the only reason for the reduction in overstayers at VM's was the result of work done by certain members of this forum I should also have said that CRT have also contributed but please do not under estimate the work done by some on here. IMO the approach that CRT have taken to VM is very flawed especially if they make it more difficult to moor off VM's by lack of Towpath options caused by lack of Towpath maintenance this will result in more boats on VM's

Using Alan's guidance (and my 'recalculation' of how many boats I think have been there more than 48 hours - 5) 3 fit the CC licence criteria and 2 fit the home mooring criteria (One GU and one K and A) so 60% CC and 40% with a Home Mooring declared. It is a small sample.

Thanks for that.

[alan_fincher]

 

I also think your figures on declared boats without a home mooring is out of date, I think the official figure is over 5,000 and that of course does not take into account the number of boats that have moved out of marinas and off LTM but not done a No Home Mooring declaration.

In theory a boast that gives up a mooring to go CC-ing will not be able to renew next time as if it has one, because BW/CRT are supposed to check that the declared mooring is still a valid one.

 

But I suspect you are about to tell me that you, or someone else gave up a mooring, and a licence renewal was done as if you or they still had it. I'm not suggesting BW/CRT procedures are tight on this point, but clearly they ought to be.

 

If they were the longest period a boat ought to be able to display a licence that says it has a home mooring which it doesn't actually have is a maximum of a year up to the next renewal.

 

To try and give a balanced view of what goes on, I could say that where we are currently moored at Calf Heath the boat next to us motored away a while ago, leaving his motorbike, and various clutter to "reserve" his space, along with a sign with the boats name, length, and a statement he has "gone for water". No way is this a defined long term mooring, but unfortunately such behaviours feed the likes of Vaughan Welch when they form a view of how they think many behave, based on the actions of a relative few who take the piss.

[sueb]

It is possible some 'overstaying' boats are doing so with Carts knowledge and paying for the privilege. This is only known by cart

[Leo No2]

It is possible some 'overstaying' boats are doing so with Carts knowledge and paying for the privilege. This is only known by cart

I know of one which has been here (Stoke Bruerne) 5/6 weeks but it's sensibly moored and does have CRT permission (I have left it out of any calculations) but there may be others and there's nothing to identify boats that have CRT's permission to remain. The question I would ask is 'is it our business' or 'should such boats carry an identification of some kind to show they have permission to remain' or could that be another way to 'fiddle the books'. I would imagine that in the scheme of things those with 'permission to remain' would be quite small.

[matty40s]

Here we go,happening now, 3 men and two vans to change Thrupp wharfs "overstay £25" to "2 free days" with "additional nights £25" underneath.

Edited August 15, 2013 by matty40s

[jenlyn]

Here we go,happening now, 3 men and two vans to change Thrupp wharfs "overstay £25" to "2 free days" with "additional nights £25" underneath.

I suspect this will also bring about the slow eradication of 14 day moorings in the area.

[matty40s]

Following the Thrupp stretch, top end of Kidlington is an area which was 14 day bankside.

 

 

the piling has been lowered and replaced so no nappy pins can be used.Then it has had the plant impregnated hessian sausages filled in behind.

These, next year will yield 6 foot 'vole' friendly vegetation and be another stretch impossible to moor up to.

below roundham lock,most of the bank for a mile has been sausigified!!

The CRT yard further north(marston doles??) has hundreds of these hessian sausages stacked ready for use.

 

It looks like the plan is to force boats onto the chargeable sections.

[sueb]

I said this would happen when BW asked where boaters wanted moorings. The mistake was made then

[cheshire~rose]

How? It's your stopping options that may have to be modified.

 

If (when?) this policy is rolled out to other areas it would require us to modify our cruising.

 

We are leisure boaters with a home mooring. We do not get as much opportunity to use the boat as we would like but when that opportunity arises we almost always take her out whatever the weather or time of year (unless she is frozen in)

 

So during the winter months with shorter days on a Friday my OH has to complete a 122 mile drive from work to collect me and then arrive at our boat. It is far too late and too dark to move her on the Friday. If it is miserable weather we will often just take a chug for a couple of hours (around 3 hours) to some popular visitor moorings on The Shroppie. We always wonder if there will be space but we have never yet been unable to get a space there. We then spend a relaxing weekend, take a walk, read, watch a film, birdwatch. It is just what a stressed out executive needs at the weekend to de-stress. We might do this 6-8 times a year.

In summer we have been known to untie the ropes when we get to the boat and use the same mooring as a staging post for where we want to get to the next day

If, on our longer boating trips we find ourselves passing these mooring either outbound or homeward bound and the timing suits us we may well stop there again then.

 

Our presence on those moorings is not causing any other boaters any hardship at all. I have never knowingly seen any boat wanting a mooring there that has been unable to get one at the weekend and yet if the restrictions being introduced elsewhere were intorduced here it would mean we could not visit that place as often as we do. That would mean completely changing our plan of where to go.

 

Matty's photo's show an area which was formerly 14 day moorings that will be out of bounds for mooring due to the way the bank has been changed. Similarly on The Shroppie you can realistically only stop on visitor moorings due to the "Shroppie Shelf"

 

I wish people would wake up and think about the places they enjoy stopping. How long and how often they stop there. If these sort of restrictions were brought in then how would YOU feel about it?

 

If people had not been so laid back about some of this stuff this time last year then we would not be having these problems now. Time to stand up and let CRT hear your voices!

[matty40s]

Kwacker, you seem to like Foxton. If CRT do not relax these rules in winter, I can see at least one, if not both pubs shutting down due to lack of trade.

Be careful what you wish for indeed.

[madcat]

Time to stand up and be counted indeed Cheshire Rose.

I'm not up for lunatic fringe stuff but prepared to go outside my comfort zone and get involved , its that or sell up and walk away and I don't think I'm ready to do that yet.

[Leo No2]

I know there is a lot going in elsewhere on the forum but just for the record tonight's update is:

 

4 x 70', 3 x 60' and 1 x 40'

 

A quote from a blog of a boat I saw go through Stoke Bruerne today is as follows: The real world has proved to be much quieter than we had expected. Only one boat in the tunnel. Could not believe Stoke Bruene in August and we sailed straight into the top lock accompanied by a fantastic team on NB BUSTER who moor at Milton Keynes. They had a novice under instruction driving and what a fantastic job he made of it. I almost felt ashamed. Almost.

 

The graph is as follows:

Edit - Graph removed

Edited August 16, 2013 by Leo No2

[Tuscan]

Kwacker, you seem to like Foxton. If CRT do not relax these rules in winter, I can see at least one, if not both pubs shutting down due to lack of trade.

Be careful what you wish for indeed.

Not necessarily a good example. The large pub already closes in winter, 61 I am sure will keep going its the walkers and tourists at this particular site that keep the pubs going. CRT has already got rid of the winter moorings on the VM's so those boats that were happy to pay will move on , those that I suspect Kwacker doesn't approve will probably be back as usual I suspect.

 

Some of us from the local marina will continue to pop down but several have already commented they will do so less in the future. One of the problems is the water points are on the Visitor Moorings so if you stop and fill up when the volunteer walks past will this count as one of your visits.

 

It would not suprise me that the new regs stay in force all year round, it's the lazy thing to do.

[tillergirl]

 

So the second week of August on a Saturday night enough space for 7 boats!!

I have now read the T&C for Stoke Bruerne and was interested in this piece on the £25 per day charge "This charge reflects our costs of

keeping the visitor moorings available." So in Gloucester Dock they can manage them for £5 per day and in Llangollen for £10 including Electric Hook up!!!

 

£6 a night including water and electric for a max of 48 hours.................just paid it

Edited August 15, 2013 by tillergirl

[Kwacker]

Kwacker, you seem to like Foxton. If CRT do not relax these rules in winter, I can see at least one, if not both pubs shutting down due to lack of trade.

Be careful what you wish for indeed.

Trade to the Inn is, by a massive margin, visitors to the locks, not boaters. Bridge 61 seems to have a few local boaters, but again, it is mostly visitors who parked a car, not a boat.

On several occasions, I have cruised south to Foxton locks, found nowhere to moor, so winded and headed out to the countryside for a picnic.

Had I been able to moor, it would have been a couple of rounds of drinks and a meal for four .... was that good for the pubs? Especially as most of the boats on the prime moorings had obvioulsy been locked up tight and left while the owners were miles away*.

 

*ps I am not Holier than Thou ..... I have done it myself, because I could.

Now I can't, so I won't, but it won't effect the amount of time, or money I spend down there,

Edited August 16, 2013 by Kwacker

[matty40s]

Those visitors come to see boats Kwacker......

[Kwacker]

Why would boats stay away because they can only stop for 48 hours .... how long do you need?

I genuinely believe that boat numbers will increase.

I just double checked the map showing the new mooring arrangements and I'd say they've got them spot on.

If you want to stop longer that 48 hours, there is the piled section to the south of bridge 60, or north of the footbridge, just a pleasant stroll from the pubs.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Kwacker

[Tuscan]

Trade to the Inn is, by a massive margin, visitors to the locks, not boaters. Bridge 61 seems to have a few local boaters, but again, it is mostly visitors who parked a car, not a boat.

On several occasions, I have cruised south to Foxton locks, found nowhere to moor, so winded and headed out to the countryside for a picnic.

Had I been able to moor, it would have been a couple of rounds of drinks and a meal for four .... was that good for the pubs? Especially as most of the boats on the prime moorings had obvioulsy been locked up tight and left while the owners were miles away*.

 

*ps I am not Holier than Thou ..... I have done it myself, because I could.

Now I can't, so I won't, but it won't effect the amount of time, or money I spend down there,

Strange there's been plenty of room at the VM's at the bottom all year , probably less so in August to be fair.

[jenlyn]

Why would boats stay away because they can only stop for 48 hours .... how long do you need?

I genuinely believe that boat numbers will increase.

Really? That's interesting, only time will tell of course, but generally your missing a valid point that is a potential problem, return times and being clocked there even whilst moored for an hour. Think about it, it's flawed, and CRT are not accepting that.

[Leo No2]

Friday night's figures are as follows:

 

2 x 70', 2 x 60' and 1 x 40' - still not anywhere near full in my view especially for the middle of August.

 

There are some new signs that have gone up today (well three on the same post):

 

i) 2 Days Free Mooring

ii) Each extra day £25

iii) Maximum 10 days in Stoke Bruerne per month

 

Edit - Graph removed.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Leo No2

[john6767]

There are some new signs that have gone up today (well three on the same post):

 

i) 2 Days Free Mooring

ii) Each extra day £25

iii) Maximum 10 days in Stoke Bruerne per month

As it does not make any statement about return time, what is the intention here, 2 days is Stoke Bruerne as a whole, then what time period before you can return? Or can you have 2 days on the tunnel approach, and then 2 days on the long pound, then 2 days on the tunnel approach etc, until you hit your 10 days in a month?

[jenlyn]

As it does not make any statement about return time, what is the intention here, 2 days is Stoke Bruerne as a whole, then what time period before you can return? Or can you have 2 days on the tunnel approach, and then 2 days on the long pound, then 2 days on the tunnel approach etc, until you hit your 10 days in a month?

Right, stoke bruerne will now be defined as a "place" you will only be allowed 10 days maximum on the mixture of moorings at that "place" in any month.

[Leo No2]

As it does not make any statement about return time, what is the intention here, 2 days is Stoke Bruerne as a whole, then what time period before you can return? Or can you have 2 days on the tunnel approach, and then 2 days on the long pound, then 2 days on the tunnel approach etc, until you hit your 10 days in a month?

The question I would be asking is about the definition of 'Stoke Bruerne'. I suspect the intention is Bottom Lock to Tunnel mouth but it's not clear - it comes back to clear communication which I doubt this is.

[Tuscan]

I believe the intention is that you can only stay 2 days total at any one time between the bottom lock and the tunnel. If you then went to Blissworth to experience the tunnel and back later the same day are you entitled to stay another 2 days or are you fined £50?

[john6767]

I believe the intention is that you can only stay 2 days total at any one time between the bottom lock and the tunnel. If you then went to Blissworth to experience the tunnel and back later the same day are you entitled to stay another 2 days or are you fined £50?

 

Right, stoke bruerne will now be defined as a "place" you will only be allowed 10 days maximum on the mixture of moorings at that "place" in any month.

 

I believe the intention is that you can only stay 2 days total at any one time between the bottom lock and the tunnel. If you then went to Blissworth to experience the tunnel and back later the same day are you entitled to stay another 2 days or are you fined £50?

That was my point, it is not clear at all, and it think if you are going to have "strict" rules then it needs to be clear what those are. We can assume that it means tunnel mouth to bottom lock (and I guess it does), but it needs to say that. It also needs to state the return rules . I for one would not really understand where I stood here, and with a £25 fine if you get it wrong that does not seem to be acceptable. While I am not a big fan of lots of signs, this really needs one that fully explains the rules.