Solid wood floor

[Ania]

Hi guys!

 

New to boating and just got our first narrowboat - a 65footer. It had quite shabby pink fitted carpets which I had pulled out to see that we have a thick 7 ply floor under. This is really destroyed too because of carpets being glued to it but I think structurally sound. I am thinking of putting a solid wood floor on it and I have few questions.

 

First and foremost whether I can just rip the old floor down and have a antidamp layer below and wooden floor (18 or 21mm) on top and use it without plywood underneath. Do you think it would be durable enough on its own? I don't see why not as it would be strong solid wood (oak or acacia) and same thickness as the ply currently is. My husband is concerned however therefore the question. He is also concerned about taking off this primary ply floor as it might be structurally important? Is it?

 

Another question is whether you usually have solid wood floors on boats? Mostly it seems that people are putting engineered floors on boats and laminates but I have seen some with solid wood and it looks gorgeous. Would it not be too humid though? Especially for a tropical tree such as acacia (which I am currently thinking about).

 

I need to say here that I don't want to put the solid wood floor on top of ply as it will take additional 2cm from the height of the boat and as I am 6'1" I am already touching the ceiling and I would not want to need to bend down all the time.

 

Would really appreciate your help and expertise!

 

P.S. I am writing a second post now about a possibility of lowering the ceiling?

 

 

[BargeeSpud]

Solid wood/laminate flooring in boats is becoming quite common, so I reckon your choice will depend on ease of fit & cost. I don't have any experience of fitting anything other than carpet tiles in a boat I'm afraid. With 3 dogs on board, wood or laminate would be too noisy for me!

[Ally]

We have always fitted solid oak floors on all our boats (19 to date) but always on top of ply. It needs a certain amount of 'floatability' due to the slight changes of boat size through the year with temperature. We don't fix it at the boat sides, or anywhere actually, but let it float slightly against a small thread of silicone on the side batons, and then put the skirting down to it.

It can buckle without a bit of movement allowance.

We use 18mm ply under 19mm solid oak.

Others will do it other ways most likely, but that's how we have done it successfully for so many boats.

Your headroom must be lower than our boats to start with though.

[Ania]

Thanks Ally, that's really useful. Yeah, seems that the headroom is really low. What do you think about putting the ceiling up - there is some 4cm space between the ceiling wood planks and insulation - do I need to leave it for some sort of ventilation or can I win 2cm over there?

[Ally]

You may find that there are fittings, such as spot lights or speakers in your ceiling, that is dictating the gap because of their depth, or even wiring trunking etc. It's a good thing to have some gap, but if the space really is free, you could potentially up it a little. It'll be quite a job though, as you are likely to have to shave the amount you want off every ceiling baton!

[David Mack]

The plywood floor probaby extends beneath partitions and built in furniture, so its much easier to leave it in place and put the new floor on top. One of the reasons for using laminate or engineered flooring is that it is generally thinner than solid wood.

[fudd]

The plywood floor probaby extends beneath partitions and built in furniture, so its much easier to leave it in place and put the new floor on top. One of the reasons for using laminate or engineered flooring is that it is generally thinner than solid wood.

I'm with you on this one David. 7or 8 mm laminate is easy to fit, will last a good few years too. It's not your 'classic' boaty stuff, but its DIY able and cheap.

[lee b]

if the ply floor in your boats is sturdy you can fit a wood or laminate floor over it,laminates are best done with a suitable membrane under it,you will need to use heavy wear laminate that's for bathrooms,its green on the reverse side,this will help eliminate the floor from buckling with damp,from rain when its wet outside and your walking in and out as well as mopping the floor and taking showers etc...this type of floor is floating so no glue or nails are used at all and is pretty easy to install.

real wood floor can be fixed to the marine ply floor''again it must be sturdy,if their is ''give'' in the ply floor what ever you put down will most likely follow suit...

i am buying bamboo flooring for my sailaway boat,its 12ml thick and that will go down on a membrane and each joint glued with a good pva glue,no nails,this will allow the floor to expand and contract without conflicting with the ply underneath because that will want to expand and contract at a different rate to the bamboo...

if you were intending on putting real oak,pine,chestnut or similar down i have seen this nailed down using a bonger''floor hammer tool'',it buts up the wood correctly and then pins it at the correct angle each time,if it were me i would use clear silicon on each piece in a ziggyzag type line,this will help eliminate the creaking noise i keep hearing when i have viewed second hand boats,i know you have to expect a bit of creaking but blime me,some of them sound like a skeleton having a w----k in a biscuit tin....

wickes are doing real bamboo floor ready varnished on offer...£20 m2,it comes in a few colours,i'm going for natural cause its nice and fresh...its 12ml thick so needs a floor underneath it''not suitable for going direct on to joists''so the marine ply is a pretty good base but my ply floor will be new...

i have laid lots of floors over the years because i am a builder,including tiling,stone,slate,chestnut,oak,maple,pine etc and one thing i cant ever stress enough is that if the base is out of plumb so will be the finished floor...never and i repeat never put a expensive floor down on a bad base and expect it to look good....good luck !

[canals are us?]

I installed a reclaimed hardwood parquet floor onto the original plywood floor.

 

Here is a photo of it finished. It was a lot of work cleaning the old bitumen off the back, laying and sanding and then 2 coats of oil.

 

 

James

[Ania]

Thanks everyone. James - can I ask how long did it take? We are going to only do it on 14m2 (which is probably some 18ft of the length of the boat). We might be having tiles in kitchen and definitely in bathroom. And already laid laminated floor in bedroom. I really don't like the cheap look of laminates - the solid wood is solid wood in the end and I am mainly looking into reclaimed one but am a bit put off about cleaning the bitumen - rough idea about workhours needed to be put in such a project?

[Zayna]

I installed a reclaimed hardwood parquet floor onto the original plywood floor.

 

Here is a photo of it finished. It was a lot of work cleaning the old bitumen off the back, laying and sanding and then 2 coats of oil.

 

 

James

 

I could look at this photo all day long.

[starman]

As per the recommendation from our supplier (Peak Oak) we secret screwed our solid oak T&G floorboards onto the ply sub-floor using special long thin Spax screws (sorry can't remember the specific type). The screws were brilliant - you can drive them in with an electric driver without any need for pre-drilling as close as an inch to the end of the tongue and it won't split. I wouldn't have believed it until I tried it. So far floor solid, squeak free and flat.

[casper ghost]

I fitted solid oak, 15mm thick onto my 18mm OSB floor. It's not fixed down, in fact I agree with everything Ally said.

As for the ceiling; surely a massive job to raise it, though it can be done but you can't raise it much. The 4cm gap you have found could just be because the builder used 40mm steel for the framing, in which case you can only raise the ceiling between the frames.

Casp'

Edited June 27, 2013 by casper ghost

[Peter Reed]

Perhaps it's best to get a number one haircut, this will sort out the height problem. Hope this helps.

[Ania]

no it doesn't it would have to be a shave off the skull I'm afraid

[Peter Reed]

Only other possible silly option I can offer is to loose the Jimmy Choos.

[canals are us?]

Thanks everyone. James - can I ask how long did it take? We are going to only do it on 14m2 (which is probably some 18ft of the length of the boat). We might be having tiles in kitchen and definitely in bathroom. And already laid laminated floor in bedroom. I really don't like the cheap look of laminates - the solid wood is solid wood in the end and I am mainly looking into reclaimed one but am a bit put off about cleaning the bitumen - rough idea about workhours needed to be put in such a project?

 

Hi Ania,

 

It took about 3 days to clean off the bitumen and clean the tonque and grooves of the reclaimed parquet flooring but I wasn't working all day about 4 hours per day on the quantity of 8sqm. I used an old chisel to scrape off as much bitumen but it was a dirty job.

Laying them was the easy bit just over a day.

I would advice laying them out centrally starting in the middle after checking the best layout/ as parallel as possible to the sides of the boat and then I would advice fixing a piece of wood strip (batten) along the floor. I would then lay the parquet flooring against this and then you can tap the other parquet pieces into position without moving the first row. This keeps the flooring straight. When this section has set, remove the batten then lay the new section of parquet.

 

I also used some panel pins/nails to temporarily apply pressure where needed in any low spots of the floor to make a good contact with the adhesive or at edges until glue has dried. Only spread a small amount of adhesive as it sets quite quickly.

 

The sanding was the worst! More information and pictures in my previous post.

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=56934&hl=

 

I would say my floor took around 6 days to complete. For your floor I would allow 10 days including cleaning the flooring.

I really liked the saicos tropical combo oil but will eventually apply the gloss finish.

 

My parquet was from an old school and cost £9 sqm. Looking on the net it could be Meranti.

When buying parquet make sure it's stored in the dry and it's all the same size to each other and type.

 

Glad you like it Zayna

 

Good luck with your floor, so well worth doing!

 

James

Edited June 27, 2013 by canals are us?

[nebulae]

Depends on the age of the boat .I have had to remove plywood floors from several boats because wet from showers and kitchens has rotted the ply. The rot then spreads quickly along the laminates of the plywood. As has been suggested if the floor is sound and true,you should have no problems.I would suggest some ventilation under the floor if possible,particularly if you fit a membrane.Also leave a small hatch at the lowest part of the boat in case any water gets in the bilge.(The engine space bulkhead is probably watertite)

[peterboat]

I installed a reclaimed hardwood parquet floor onto the original plywood floor.

 

Here is a photo of it finished. It was a lot of work cleaning the old bitumen off the back, laying and sanding and then 2 coats of oil.

 

 

James:cheers:

Hi I in a previous life was an asbestos inspector and that bitumen was probably loaded with it! they used it as a anti slump/binding agent, It is a real issue and the stuff should not find its way onto the market but unfortunatly it does. It was used in many things and it constantly surprised me when I found it in a new place where it had no right to be.

 

Peter

[ditchcrawler]

Hi I in a previous life was an asbestos inspector and that bitumen was probably loaded with it! they used it as a anti slump/binding agent, It is a real issue and the stuff should not find its way onto the market but unfortunatly it does. It was used in many things and it constantly surprised me when I found it in a new place where it had no right to be.

 

Peter

How much of a problem is it when entrapped in bitumen?

[lee b]

asbestos is in the air what we all breath on a day to day basis,because of its very nature whenever its disturbed ie,factory fires,house renovations,taking down old buildings with concrete asbestos on the roofs it all goes into the air...

being a builder i have shifted my fare share,a lot of which i had no idea at the time that it was asbestos,like the thousands of ''marley tiles' for instance',blue,off white or pink plastic type sticky down tiles like the ones in most schools,hospitals work places and even home kitchens...they were popular in the 50's 60's and 70's...its a sad fact that the powers that be knew for a long time about the dangers of asbestos but done buggar all about it...even after the ban their was a time laps to allow products to be sold so factories never lost money...up untill 1998 believe it or not !!...America still use it today along with china and god knows who else !!

because of the pure quantity i have moved over years i am concerned for myself,especially after stripping down an old diesel heating system in france and come across a heat shield that went up in a puff when i pulled the steel cover of where it was hiding underneath...

if your not in constant contact with the stuff i wouldn't worry too much as like i say,your breathing it in in milla particles on a day to day basis...if your over 40 it takes 30 years to come out so that will take you past the three score and ten boundary anyway lol...

[mark99]

70 people a week die from asbestos exposure.

 

This is predicted to peak at 100 per week as workers from the 60's/70's in heavy industry /e.g. shipbuilding exposed to asbestos contract the disease from particles absorbed when at work all those years ago.

 

IIRC Steve McQueen died from that nasty disease.

Edited July 2, 2013 by mark99

[BlueStringPudding]

,i know you have to expect a bit of creaking but blime me,some of them sound like a skeleton having a w----k in a biscuit tin.... !

[lee b]

70 people a week die from asbestos exposure.

 

This is predicted to peak at 100 per week as workers from the 60's/70's in heavy industry /e.g. shipbuilding exposed to asbestos contract the disease from particles absorbed when at work all those years ago.

 

IIRC Steve McQueen died from that nasty disease.

yes its nasty stuff asbestos is and like i say,if i knew what i was shifting at the time i would have walked from the job but i have also done roofing 3 stories high on old barns with no scaffold,no safety nets or harness and once went through one at the ridge,to this day i'll never know how i managed to grab hold of a chevron on the way through the old woodworm infested slats...i am a believer that when your number is up its up...it would be a right bastard to get cancer through asbestos cause i have never smoked a fag my whole life...ive had my fare share of bacon sarney's though and those aint exactly good for your health...lol

[canals are us?]

Hi I in a previous life was an asbestos inspector and that bitumen was probably loaded with it! they used it as a anti slump/binding agent, It is a real issue and the stuff should not find its way onto the market but unfortunatly it does. It was used in many things and it constantly surprised me when I found it in a new place where it had no right to be.

 

Peter

 

Interesting as I certainly could imagine the old bitumen could contain asbestos. The modern lecol 5500 certainly should not, I would hope.

I have removed one roof of a kitchen that was corrugated white asbestos/cement and wetted it and cut the fixings. It then went to a specialist for disposal. I took the sheets off in one piece and kept them well wet. This was 15 years ago.

The best I ever saw though was at a tip (dechetterie) In Normandy France where a customer was asked to smash it up to fit it into a blue drum!!

 

James

Edited July 2, 2013 by canals are us?