FEDUP.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

 

For some teams, that is correct

 

Richard

Wish i had been at Villa Park last night..........

[RLWP]

Wish i had been at Villa Park last night..........

 

 

Richard

[carlt]

What has happened to the £2,000 moorings? A 30% increase in less than 12 hours!!!

I have been saying for ages that the government has been hiding the true inflation rate from us.

[Doorman]

Possibly one of the most bizarre statements I have ever read.

 

Is that not like saying the best view of a football match is outside the stadium with a blindfold on?

:-)

 

Try having an Irish mum if you think that Junior's comment was bizarre.

 

"Are you reading that paper that you're sitting on" springs to mind.

[Leni]

What has happened to the £2,000 moorings? A 30% increase in less than 12 hours!!!

 

You should have seen the recent bidding 'war' on those moorings! They went from a guide price of around £2,000 to well over £3,000 - some of them in somewhat less than 12 hours!

 

As someone lucky enough to have been able to 'win' one, I am acutely aware that there were many people who needed a mooring every bit as desperately as we did, but who were not able to compete at that level. If the roving mooring permits help them to be able to stay in an area where they need to be, I think they will be a very good thing. I will certainly not feel envious, or that the desperate people who get them - whatever the price - have somehow 'got one over' on me. I was lucky enough (with help from other family members) to be able to bid high enough to buy one of the very expensive tow-path moorings. If others get something cheaper, I will just be very happy for them if this proves to be something which solves their problems.

[koukouvagia]

The present debate has echoes of an earlier one over twenty years ago. In 1991 BW reported that there were a thousand illegally moored live aboard boats. Many had been living on these illegal moorings for years. In parliament it was recognised that there was a housing shortage and that many people wanted to live on boats. The solution was to declare a moratorium. This meant that notice was given to all those moored illegally that they had five years to find a permanent, legal mooring which they would be required to pay for, after which time enforcement procedures would be started. It was recognised that some boaters might prefer a nomadic boating life and so the concept of continuous cruising was born. Around this time BW made available many new moorings.

 

As I recall there was none of the animosity between those who had paid for moorings and those who were given a period of grace before they regularised their position and were required to pay. Illegally moored boaters either accepted the moratorium conditions or embarked on a continuous cruising lifestyle.

 

The moratorium was, IMO, a realistic compromise solution. BW resolved that they would henceforth rigorously apply the terms of the 1995 Act so that a similar situation would not arise in the future. However, because BW was unable or unwilling to enforce the sloppily drafted wording of the Act, we find ourselves in today’s situation.

[alan_fincher]

You should have seen the recent bidding 'war' on those moorings! They went from a guide price of around £2,000 to well over £3,000 - some of them in somewhat less than 12 hours!

It is often the nature of moorings auctions that people defer bidding at all until very close to the end of the two weeks, and often only in the final minutes.

 

Much like e-Bay, I guess - hoping not to show their hand to the last minute.

 

The £3,000 towpath mooring is now very much fact in that area, unfortunately, all the 3 recent vacancies at Batchworth having gone well beyond £3,000.

 

Significantly higher still was the one at Springwell, which has gone over £5,000, and hence at over 2.6 times the guide price, and what other moorers at that location might currently be paying.

 

The "get youself a proper mooring" advice is only any good if given to those with a fair amount of money they can throw at it - most of the few moorings that come up down there are out of the financial reach of many.

[nicknorman]

The present debate has echoes of an earlier one over twenty years ago. In 1991 BW reported that there were a thousand illegally moored live aboard boats. Many had been living on these illegal moorings for years. In parliament it was recognised that there was a housing shortage and that many people wanted to live on boats. The solution was to declare a moratorium. This meant that notice was given to all those moored illegally that they had five years to find a permanent, legal mooring which they would be required to pay for, after which time enforcement procedures would be started. It was recognised that some boaters might prefer a nomadic boating life and so the concept of continuous cruising was born. Around this time BW made available many new moorings.

 

As I recall there was none of the animosity between those who had paid for moorings and those who were given a period of grace before they regularised their position and were required to pay. Illegally moored boaters either accepted the moratorium conditions or embarked on a continuous cruising lifestyle.

 

The moratorium was, IMO, a realistic compromise solution. BW resolved that they would henceforth rigorously apply the terms of the 1995 Act so that a similar situation would not arise in the future. However, because BW was unable or unwilling to enforce the sloppily drafted wording of the Act, we find ourselves in today’s situation.

However 1991 was before the days of the internet, so only those directly involved probably got to know about it!

 

It is often the nature of moorings auctions that people defer bidding at all until very close to the end of the two weeks, and often only in the final minutes.

 

Much like e-Bay, I guess - hoping not to show their hand to the last minute.

 

The £3,000 towpath mooring is now very much fact in that area, unfortunately, all the 3 recent vacancies at Batchworth having gone well beyond £3,000.

 

Significantly higher still was the one at Springwell, which has gone over £5,000, and hence at over 2.6 times the guide price, and what other moorers at that location might currently be paying.

 

The "get youself a proper mooring" advice is only any good if given to those with a fair amount of money they can throw at it - most of the few moorings that come up down there are out of the financial reach of many.

Co-operative to buy some brownfield land and build a community marina anyone?

[magnetman]

£3000 a year

 

uxbridge

 

w

t

f

 

its uxbridge...

 

has someone misheard it as Oxbridge

[cotswoldsman]

However 1991 was before the days of the internet, so only those directly involved probably got to know about it!

 

 

Co-operative to buy some brownfield land and build a community marina anyone?

Are you sure you do not have my phone bugged

[alan_fincher]

 

 

Co-operative to buy some brownfield land and build a community marina anyone?

Allegedly it is so congested in that area that people would already be moored two or three abreast at the point you would need to dig an entrance to one......

[Leni]

Co-operative to buy some brownfield land and build a community marina anyone?

 

That would be a wonderful idea. However, I wonder if it would work. in recent years BW / CRT have committed to decimate (literally, in the Roman Legion sense of 'killing one in every ten') the towpath moorings since building new marinas, only to find that the marina moorings go unsold while the towpath moorings are becoming so sought-after that they reach the silly prices seen at Batchworth and Springwell recently. It seems people still prefer to live on the cut rather than in a 'floating caravan park', even if it means paying through the nose for nothing but a few mooring rings, if that!

Edited April 30, 2013 by Leni

[Timleech]

What has happened to the £2,000 moorings? A 30% increase in less than 12 hours!!!

 

I suggest you check your maths

 

Tim

[Tuscan]

its interesting point that CRT have said that in recent years the number of licensed boats has gone up by 10,000 in recent years with a resultant big jump in income (also given that evasion has decreased) yet the number of Visitor Moorings has stayed constant and the number of Long Term Moorings has been reduced I believe. I pay £3000 per year for a 72' boat in serviced marina my choice. same as for some of the recent CRT towpath moorings.

[cotswoldsman]

 

I suggest you check your maths

 

Tim

Silly me I just can't keep up with inflation.

[nicknorman]

That would be a wonderful idea. However, I wonder if it would work. in recent years BW / CRT have committed to decimate (literally, in the Roman Legion sense of 'killing one in every ten') the towpath moorings since building new marinas, only to find that the marina moorings go unsold while the towpath moorings are becoming so sought-after that they reach the silly prices seen at Batchworth and Springwell recently. It seems people still prefer to live on the cut rather than in a 'floating caravan park', even if it means paying through the nose for nothing but a few mooring rings, if that!

Well there are a couple of issues - one of which is the financial side:

Could the investment required be found at a reasonable rate, could the costs of building it be kept to a minimum by use of volunteers (or co-operators). Could EU grants be obtained to help? Would CRT have a different (or nil) charging scheme for not-for-profit organisation? Or would it transpire that the commercial rate for a marina mooring is a reasonable one (hard to believe since the operators will be looking to get their investment fully returned in as short a time as possible).

 

I am in a gliding club which runs totally voluntarily and its amazing how much cheaper things can be done by a bit of DIY than by commercial rates. If the club ran commercially, it would be a non-starter since it would be far too expensive to fly.

 

Then there is your issue about whether the folk actually want to move into a marina. Personally I can't see a lot of difference between being in a line of boats on the towpath vs a marina. There are of course marinas and marinas - they don't have to be massive impersonal parks such as have been built in places. Ours for instance is quite small and very friendly, with a great community spirit, whilst everyone respects other's privacy.

 

Ultimately, if they want to remain in one locale in their appropriated bit of towpath maybe they shouldn't have the choice. Or of course genuinely CC if that's what they want to do.

Edited April 30, 2013 by nicknorman

[Jerra]

Could I ask for some more information so that I can understand this discussion more clearly.

 

Have I picked things up correctly is this negotiation about "roaming" permits/licenses purely with one club? That's what my reading of this leads me to believe.

[alan_fincher]

Well I now know again what losing out to a higher bidder in a moorings auction feels like.

 

I have just failed to secure a mooring we would very much like to have had, (because an existing one is literally collapsing in to the cut, and CRT show no inclination to repair it), but it was going way through "guide price" so I had to pull out.

 

My luxury of course is I still have the other (albeit collapsing!) mooring - most would not have.

[Starcoaster]

Yep I've lost an auction today with a guide price of £1400 which went for over £2k. And my boat is only 30ft!

[Berengaria]

I've been breaking into houses and stealing stuff for years, I've always got away with it, in fact now it's my sole source of income.

 

I don't know how I'd survive if I had to stop. I know it's wrong but hey, if you can get away with it why not? Why should I get a job like everyone else when it's so easy to just break the law and have an easy life?

 

Hopefully if I ever get caught, they'll give me a few years to carry on nicking a bit of stuff whilst I try and sort my life out a bit.

[lexicon]

Must be incredibly lucky, got my mooring in December for reserve, no other bidders. A few seem to have gone on the stretch recently as a few new boats have arrived.

 

You must be south of me Alan I think as I saw you passing on sickle.

[alan_fincher]

I've been breaking into houses and stealing stuff for years, I've always got away with it, in fact now it's my sole source of income.

 

I don't know how I'd survive if I had to stop. I know it's wrong but hey, if you can get away with it why not? Why should I get a job like everyone else when it's so easy to just break the law and have an easy life?

 

Hopefully if I ever get caught, they'll give me a few years to carry on nicking a bit of stuff whilst I try and sort my life out a bit.

 

Well hopefully you are a good deal at your chosen "career" than at actually understanding what is up for discussion here.

 

This is about people who I imagine are what you are trying to make a misguided point about actually paying very significant amounts of extra money into CRT coffers, and hence removing, (in most reasonable people's minds), the suggestion that they are somehow getting something for nothing.

 

See this part of a previous post.

 

A thought for those who think this is a case of getting something for nothing - just legitimising free-loaders, let's say. Whilst the likely cost of a permit was not set in stone the last time I heard, it isn't going to be cheap, and will very likely be more than many pay for permanent moorings in parts of the country where they are more freely available, and hence far more affordable. The likelihood is that, if introduced, it would probably be at least as much as the boat licence fee, so far from free-loading, people who get one are likely to be contributing at least twice as much to CRT coffers as they currently do.

 

 

 

So lets ask you the same question as others?

 

What do you want to do? Throw them out of their home, and on to the mercy of the local council? And at what cost to them? And at what cost to the council?

 

If that happens will you then be happy, or will you instead be complaining that they are free-loading off the state?

 

[cotswoldsman]

I've been breaking into houses and stealing stuff for years, I've always got away with it, in fact now it's my sole source of income.

 

I don't know how I'd survive if I had to stop. I know it's wrong but hey, if you can get away with it why not? Why should I get a job like everyone else when it's so easy to just break the law and have an easy life?

 

Hopefully if I ever get caught, they'll give me a few years to carry on nicking a bit of stuff whilst I try and sort my life out a bit.

You appear to have forgotten to mention you are also on drugs or has the doctor prescribed the wrong pills?

[Tuscan]

Taking Alan's point if the alternative being advanced is to make these guys homeless and therefore being homeless having to be housed by the council , this regardless of the upheaval actually involves tax payers money so the very people complaining will end up contributing anyway. However maybe CRT should play hard ball with the councils involved and get them to contribute to the cost of providing the RMP or extra long term moorings as the alternative will cost them more.

 

Do these roving mooring permits qualify for housing benefit payments? in the way an official mooring might.

[cotswoldsman]

Yes they should qualify