boaters target boaters

[carlt]

Surely you would applaud the situation where those who have concerns about overstaying contact CRT, and leave it to CRT to decide if there is or is not an issue.

To be honest I don't really care that much.

 

I was responding to the "Let's think the worst of people" post with a "Let's think the best of people" one.

 

Somebody reported someone...CRT responded with a pretty meaningless letter without, allegedly, bothering to gather any evidence...life goes on.

 

No big deal really.

 

The "Boater vs boater" thing is mildly amusing though.

 

Why should a community of such varied demographics actually be expected to show any more solidarity than the land bound population?

Edited April 29, 2013 by carlt

[Jerra]

To return to the OP the things which come across clearly to me are:

 

1. The owner admitted he had overstayed by 2 days and had a reason - the problem could perhaps have been avoided had he contacted CRT.

 

2. There are a number of things quoted other than over staying that an independent observer (who implies he has passed the boat a number of times) hasn't seen.

 

By all means people who overstay (and haven't informed CRT of a good reason) should be approached, but from this post and ones in other of threads there seems to be a tendency to make "mistakes" e.g. the dog, generator and mess seem in this case to be a "mistake". Others have complained about being ticketed before they have overstayed.

 

This to me if left unchallenged will lead to a situation where tickets are issued regardless of any evidence. With the potential introduction of overstaying charges (no I don't want to reopen a debate about whether these charges are legal) I feel CRT need to understand it is noticed and objected to.

[Guest]

But we don't actually know if CRT staff observed the boats overstaying do we?

 

There seems to be an assumption that the tickets were issued purely on the evidence of the (non CRT) reporter - reading the OP it seems entirely possible a complaint was raised and was followed up by the Trust leading to boats being observed by CRT staff as overstayers.

 

I too though would be very concerned if it transpires CRT just were doling these out on the say so of somebody not employed (or properly volunteering) to issue 'tickets'

[mayalld]

The "Boater vs boater" thing is mildly amusing though.

 

Why should a community of such varied demographics actually be expected to show any more solidarity than the land bound population?

 

Now, there is something upon which we can most wholeheartedly agree!

[oarfish]

I find it very odd that the people who complain about being ticketed seem to claim the morale high ground as if they are being wronged. I agree that if they are being accused of rule breaches without evidence CRT need to be told but these boaters do accept they have overstayed. I also don't think it is up to boaters to police the system by asking others to move on as they cannot know the situation. For example, in January I arrived in Oxford to find the Thames on red boards and gave CRT a call asking if I could wait on the 24 hr mooring and gave them my mobile number to call should they need me to move. I stayed for 3 weeks with no problem. Next to me was another boater who I got to know and one morning he was complaining that CRT had given him a ticket. I asked if he'd called them and he told that it was not for overstaying but for not having a licence. I pointed out this seemed fair and his reply was that CRT wouldn't issue him a licence as his boat had failed the BSS and he couldn't afford to get the work done. He seemed to think CRT were being unreasonable.

 

 

Blue boat, using a pallet as a step? Still here

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I find it very odd that the people who complain about being ticketed seem to claim the morale high ground as if they are being wronged. I agree that if they are being accused of rule breaches without evidence CRT need to be told but these boaters do accept they have overstayed. I also don't think it is up to boaters to police the system by asking others to move on as they cannot know the situation. For example, in January I arrived in Oxford to find the Thames on red boards and gave CRT a call asking if I could wait on the 24 hr mooring and gave them my mobile number to call should they need me to move. I stayed for 3 weeks with no problem. Next to me was another boater who I got to know and one morning he was complaining that CRT had given him a ticket. I asked if he'd called them and he told that it was not for overstaying but for not having a licence. I pointed out this seemed fair and his reply was that CRT wouldn't issue him a licence as his boat had failed the BSS and he couldn't afford to get the work done. He seemed to think CRT were being unreasonable.

Red boards at Oxford is a good reason for not moving on, so C&RT would be very unreasonable to issue any instruction to do so.

I waited 2 weeks last October, nothing was said, there were lots waiting.

As for him being unlicensed, thats a different matter.

 

I think people have to be careful they know the 'rules' too, before making accusations.

 

Glenn

[Guest]

Red boards at Oxford is a good reason for not moving on, so C&RT would be very unreasonable to issue any instruction to do so.

I waited 2 weeks last October, nothing was said, there were lots waiting.

As for him being unlicensed, thats a different matter.

 

I think people have to be careful they know the 'rules' too, before making accusations.

 

Glenn

 

 

We once got hemmed in at Castleford in the cut for several days on the 48 hour VM's and I must admit it never occurred to me to contact CRT as all the other boats like us were just sitting tight with nowhere to go (hemmed in at both ends).

 

I suppose I sort of assumed CRT wouldn't be daft enough to ticket us........ would they?

[Maffi]

I am confused (nothing new) I doubt you will be able to answer this as it was not you who was ticketed, but what was the ticket? Was it a CC1, CC2 or are they not CCers? Unfortunately boaters reporting other boaters is becoming the normal why people can not talk to each other baffles me.

Its very simple John often trying to discus a situation with a 'boater' results in threats and swearing. So short of beating him with a 4 x 2 its best not to bother. Even the shiny brigade get abusive if you point out their errors.

[Gillie]

We once got hemmed in at Castleford in the cut for several days on the 48 hour VM's and I must admit it never occurred to me to contact CRT as all the other boats like us were just sitting tight with nowhere to go (hemmed in at both ends).

 

I suppose I sort of assumed CRT wouldn't be daft enough to ticket us........ would they?

They were saying that people should be trying to move in the winter of 2010/2011 when we were all stuck in 5 inches of ice for 7 weeks on the K & A !!

[Guest]

They were saying that people should be trying to move in the winter of 2010/2011 when we were all stuck in 5 inches of ice for 7 weeks on the K & A !!

 

I wonder if they had forced us to move if they would have recompensed us for sinking our boat as the boards were well in the red for days.....

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

They were saying that people should be trying to move in the winter of 2010/2011 when we were all stuck in 5 inches of ice for 7 weeks on the K & A !!

They're a contradictory bunch.

They told me they didn't like me travelling through 5mm of ice but preferred me to moor at a swing bridge. I had three nights there.

Between sells green and Seend on the K&A.

 

Perhaps boaters know the rights and wrongs a lot better than C&RT.

 

They'll contradict each other over the phone too.

 

Glenn

[cotswoldsman]

 

They were saying that people should be trying to move in the winter of 2010/2011 when we were all stuck in 5 inches of ice for 7 weeks on the K & A !!

Just goes to show how things differ from area to area I was stuck in on the Oxford during that period and BW were a great help when I ran out of water and coal bringing it to me on the towpath requiring bringing it 1 mile. Did you speak to head office when they asked you to move?

[madcat]

This whole situation of overstaying has become a right mess and I have very little faith in the process or fairness of the ticketing etc. I am also utterly unconvinced that such severe restrictions are needed for the whole year and that there is a need for so many 48 hr VMs especially when safe convenient longer term VMs are vanishing rapidly. Not everybody wants to be hounded from one 48hr mooring to another or be stuck in the muddy isolated areas in order to be left in peace .

[junior]

The OP states that the guy admitted he had overstayed "by a couple of days". That on it's own is enough reason for enforcement action no?

 

The "been to a funeral" or "bben to visit a sick relative" excuse is popping up more and more. It almost seems that if you are caught overstaying, claiming to have been to one or the other is thought to keep fellow boaters on-side and reap some sympathy.

 

It is well know that CRT will cut people a bit of slack if they are informed BEFOREHAND of the need to remain in a certain area for a bit longer. Why do these overstayers only ever bring the excuse out AFTER that have had some sort of action taken against them.

 

I've been to quite a few funerals. Most are over with in one day. I agree that some people might have to stay over night/take public transport etc and this may cause them to be away from their boats for a couple of days. If you know that your 14 day point is while you are away, why run the risk?? Why not move the boat a couple days early to avoid any problems?? I know the answer.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

The OP states that the guy admitted he had overstayed "by a couple of days". That on it's own is enough reason for enforcement action no?

.

No. Aren't visitors moorings advisory, not a law?

Yes it's damned inconvenient if you want to be there, and I'm not promoting overstaying, but it ain't hard to find some where to tie up.

[Guest]

No. Aren't visitors moorings advisory, not a law?

Yes it's damned inconvenient if you want to be there, and I'm not promoting overstaying, but it ain't hard to find some where to tie up.

Yes this correct, you can disregard the time limits on vm's if you like. The trust have simply erected the signs for the sheer hell of it as they have nothing better to do.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I am not suggesting to disregard then.

And the vast majority of boaters do not disregard them.

I have never found a problem mooring.

 

The time limits are not law. Just an advised limit of stay

Edited April 29, 2013 by Goliath

[Grace and Favour]

I am not suggesting to disregard then.

And the vast majority of boaters do not disregard them.

I have never found a problem mooring.

 

The time limits are not law. Just an advised limit of stay

No - you're wrong

 

The time limits are General Terms and Conditions (for Boat Licences) that you agree to when purchasing your boat licence.

 

Extract:

"Issued Sept 2012

General Terms and Conditions for Boat Licences

Page 1 of 23

GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR BOAT LICENCES

<<>>

Issued

Sept

2012

General Terms and Conditions for Boat Licences

Page

2

of

23

2.

Use of the boat

2.1.

The

L

icence allows you to use the Boat in any Waterway including mooring for short periods while

cruising. ‘Short period’ means up to 14 days or less where a

local restriction applies. The Licence

does not permit mooring for any longer period.

Daily charges may be applied for staying longer than

the maximum time allowed."

[Radiomariner]

I find it very odd that the people who complain about being ticketed seem to claim the morale high ground as if they are being wronged. I agree that if they are being accused of rule breaches without evidence CRT need to be told but these boaters do accept they have overstayed. I also don't think it is up to boaters to police the system by asking others to move on as they cannot know the situation. For example, in January I arrived in Oxford to find the Thames on red boards and gave CRT a call asking if I could wait on the 24 hr mooring and gave them my mobile number to call should they need me to move. I stayed for 3 weeks with no problem. Next to me was another boater who I got to know and one morning he was complaining that CRT had given him a ticket. I asked if he'd called them and he told that it was not for overstaying but for not having a licence. I pointed out this seemed fair and his reply was that CRT wouldn't issue him a licence as his boat had failed the BSS and he couldn't afford to get the work done. He seemed to think CRT were being unreasonable.

I agree.

A couple of years the owner of a boat I failed claimed that he was overstaying on his moorings so that the BSS examiner would know where to come to! I heard all about how unfairly he had been treated, being forced to move on, when I went back to him (at a different location). He wanted me to write a complaint to BW as it was me that was inconvienced most. In fact the new location was a shorter journey and much easier to get to. I was glad that he easily passed the failed points and I could get away from a constant tirade of moans.

[Trix]

my Op was not about rights and wrongs of overstaying if you overstay and get a ticket then you deserve it , it was about the other charges a bit like being taken to court for shoplifting and being convicted for murder , I just thought it was wrong for the person who complained to add in things that were not true .

[Jerra]

I agree! I also feel there are long term dangers if this allowed to go unchallenged.

[Guest]

I am not suggesting to disregard then.

And the vast majority of boaters do not disregard them.

I have never found a problem mooring.

 

The time limits are not law. Just an advised limit of stay

 

Would you care to point us in the direction where the Trust say this - because as G&F points out the licence conditions seem pretty clear to me.

 

For the record we have had on occasions had problems getting on VM's at 'busy' spots like Alrewas on the T&M or Gargrave on the L&L for example, I have always taken it that they are all there within any limits though (even though it's possible some may not have been)

 

VM's with time limits exist for a reason, they allow equitable use of moorings at potentially popular spots, if some of us treat them as advisory limits, which they are not, that is hardly fair and equitable and is basically sticking two fingers up to the Trust and fellow boaters.

 

Extending your stay with CRT's permission is different, though no doubt there will be a small number of people who will exploit this by being liberal with the truth about their circumstances but life is full of chancers who take the pee in all aspects of life so I doubt it is viable that we should really expect the boating community to be devoid of such piss takers.

[PaddingtonBear]

I am sorry Carl, you are an almost uniquely saintly human being BUT that is bollocks. I would agree with that most of the time but again the piss takers seem to be a growing daily.

[carlt]

I would agree with that most of the time but again the piss takers seem to be a growing daily.

I believe that the people demonising the "piss takers" greatly outnumber the actual piss takers but yes, you are right, as people are condemned without evidence or thought then the number of people who think "If that's what they think of me then I might as well act like that." will inevitably increase

 

I would heartily recommend "Chavs...The Demonisation of the Working Class" by Owen Jones who explains this phenomenon far better than I can.

 

We reap what we sow.

Edited April 30, 2013 by carlt

[Guest]

I am sorry Carl, you are an almost uniquely saintly human being BUT that is bollocks. I would agree with that most of the time but again the piss takers seem to be a growing daily.

 

?

 

Or is there a post by Carl I have missed?

 

but anyway - - as I have read a number of posts on here indicating two things -

 

1 - boats that were in known 'overstaying' spots seem to be on the move now.

 

2 - CRT are being quite proactive about tackling flagrant flouting of the rules.

 

Then people who openly and gratuitously take the pee would seem to understand their days of doing so are numbered rather than extending.

Edited April 30, 2013 by The Dog House