Article By Vaghan Welch - One Of Your Four CRT Council Boater Representatives

[cotswoldsman]

It is certainly true that south of milton keynes the number of boats moored along the towpath seems to have increased dramatically especially widebeams , it is also true that we noticed quite a few boats who appeared to not have moved over a three week period that we went from Braunston to Tring twice. I also found it harder to get into the side (we are deep drafted) at the places we have previously moored. What I dont know is whether this is down to the increased number of boats on the cut, or increased number of moorings , increased popularity of widebeams, large number of shiny, or not so shiny boats out from marinas, CC'ers stopping on their way through or CM'ers.

 

There presumeably must be a problem of some description or so many people would not be getting so hot under the collar about it. So maybe before everybody gets on their high horse we need to suggest to CRT that they pay some overtime or get a contractor in (not the IWA) to do a survey outside the closed season un announced say April every week for 4 weeks and produced some stats. First know your problem then work out a solution.

 

The Trust are logging boats every 14 days throughout the year so I guess more accurate figures will become available in the future.

[nicknorman]

The Cowley and Uxbridge areas do have quite a large number of CRT moorings, both on tow-path, and in some cases, on the non-towpath side, and if you look at the auctions site, many of these are regularly advertised, and generally let, because there is a healthy demand from people who cannot afford the £5,000 numbers being charged if you go off-line in that area. (Yes, honestly, that's what you want people to pay so you have to slow down rather less

 

Unless you want these people thrown out of their homes of course - which is what it comes down to at the end of the day, if acceptable solutions can't be brokered. This is precisely the type of issue being addressed head on at meetings like the one I attended last night.

 

It costs £5000 for marina moorings (twice what we pay) because of supply and demand. If there were more marinas surely prices would have to come down, although it would of course be painful for the existing marina owners in the short term.

 

I appreciate that it is people's homes we are talking about, but there is no right in this country to put a home wherever you like. For land based dwellings, you need planning permission. For mobile land based dwellings, (caravans) you can't just park up wherever you like indefinitely, and I doubt you would be too pleased if someone in a caravan took up residence just outside your house.

 

If you have a home, you have to pay for it and the other mandatory costs such as council tax, or you may lose it. That may not be nice but it is the harsh reality of this world. And I for one am glad that its not a free-for-all. I don't see why it should be different for living on a boat.

[matty40s]

 

2. There are aprox 2,000 non compliant boats moored between Bulls Bridge and Tottenham

 

 

 

If you take an average of a 40 foot boat, this equates to 15 miles of end to end boats.

The route is 25 miles long.

 

perhaps he meant Bulls Bridge on the Walsall canal, 165 miles away....

[churchward]

The Trust are logging boats every 14 days throughout the year so I guess more accurate figures will become available in the future.

let's hope it does as some well researched facts would help very much rather than the emotive statements from both ends of the spectrum.

[cotswoldsman]

If you take an average of a 40 foot boat, this equates to 15 miles of end to end boats.

The route is 25 miles long.

 

perhaps he meant Bulls Bridge on the Walsall canal, 165 miles away....

 

I did it based on 25 miles end to end boats 55ft long but according to his email there would be even more as most are breasted up so I guess nearer to 2,500 - 3,000

 

let's hope it does as some well researched facts would help very much rather than the emotive statements from both ends of the spectrum.

 

i have to agree.

[carlt]

But substantially increase the numbers - people moving out of marinas to save money because they see others getting away with it - and it would be a problem.

Do you have any figures to prove this Diaspora is occurring?

[matty40s]

Do you have any figures to prove this Diaspora is occurring?

I saw a boat moving out of a marina last week,

 

 

 

 

however, the pump out at Sawley is on the cut so it might have been going back in afterwards.

[Tonka]

Most of the people on here have rose tinted glasses. Milton keynes is a bad area but when I mentioned it I was told off, but when someone posted a photo of a car being cut up at the fisheries harefield these same people were appalled. We should learn from Kingston upon Thames. The continous moorers there ended up with good moorings in the town and the visitors now have a long walk. moorings at hurst park have been closed because of cm's. The rule book should have been re-written before CRT started to stop the rot,

[churchward]

Do you have any figures to prove this Diaspora is occurring?

Is a Diaspora like an Aspidistra but sends out runners to spread itself about?

 

 

 

..... sorry coat is on and I am on my way....

[cotswoldsman]

It costs £5000 for marina moorings (twice what we pay) because of supply and demand. If there were more marinas surely prices would have to come down, although it would of course be painful for the existing marina owners in the short term.

 

I appreciate that it is people's homes we are talking about, but there is no right in this country to put a home wherever you like. For land based dwellings, you need planning permission. For mobile land based dwellings, (caravans) you can't just park up wherever you like indefinitely, and I doubt you would be too pleased if someone in a caravan took up residence just outside your house.

 

If you have a home, you have to pay for it and the other mandatory costs such as council tax, or you may lose it. That may not be nice but it is the harsh reality of this world. And I for one am glad that its not a free-for-all. I don't see why it should be different for living on a boat.

 

Marina Developers are also governed by the same rules concerning planning you speak about plus they have to pay a fortune for the land maybe not a great investment if they think The Trust will just keep allowing new marinas to be built until such time as you longer have to go into tick-over. Towpath Long Term moorings however I do not I think need planning permission.

Vaughn Welsh also harps on in his piece of drivel about Councils being robbed of there income, I guess he thinks that all boats in marinas should pay Council Tax!!

Edited January 15, 2013 by cotswoldsman

[Mike Tee]

Came through Milton Keynes the other (sunny!) day, and I must have been bored, because I counted all the moored boats (not permanent moorings, I know them all round here). Total in 5.5 miles (Simpson to Black Horse) was 73 boats. I know about half of them because they dodge around MK on a permanent basis. Say average length at 55', plus nobody moors near another boat so that can triple the length required for tickover. Thats about 12,000 feet of tickover in a length of 29,000 feet. So for 40% of the time I am at tickover, and to quote the 'West Midlands Region Chairman' and use lots of 'more often than not', 'possibly', 'probably not' and 'one also doubts' - in other words I have no proof - I bet most of them were abusing the system.

 

Pressing the 'Add Reply' button and taking cover.

[cotswoldsman]

But substantially increase the numbers - people moving out of marinas to save money because they see others getting away with it - and it would be a problem.

 

Most people I know in Marinas like the facilities provided and the security they offer, are you saying the majority of these people would be happy to leave their boats on the towpath to be broken into by anyone?

[carlt]

Thats about 12,000 feet of tickover in a length of 29,000 feet. So for 40% of the time I am at tickover, and to quote the 'West Midlands Region Chairman' and use lots of 'more often than not', 'possibly', 'probably not' and 'one also doubts' - in other words I have no proof - I bet most of them were abusing the system.

 

Why were you at tickover?

 

Was your throttle cable broken?

Edited January 15, 2013 by carlt

[cotswoldsman]

Came through Milton Keynes the other (sunny!) day, and I must have been bored, because I counted all the moored boats (not permanent moorings, I know them all round here). Total in 5.5 miles (Simpson to Black Horse) was 73 boats. I know about half of them because they dodge around MK on a permanent basis. Say average length at 55', plus nobody moors near another boat so that can triple the length required for tickover. Thats about 12,000 feet of tickover in a length of 29,000 feet. So for 40% of the time I am at tickover, and to quote the 'West Midlands Region Chairman' and use lots of 'more often than not', 'possibly', 'probably not' and 'one also doubts' - in other words I have no proof - I bet most of them were abusing the system.

 

Pressing the 'Add Reply' button and taking cover.

 

How many had paid for winter moorings?

[Mike Tee]

How many had paid for winter moorings?

None, I didn't count them. If I had, together with the permanent moorings the number would have been much higher. I do know my area - used to live on board in MK at a permanent mooring, don't live on the boat any more, but I do have a boat on a mooring that I pay for.

[Tuscan]

Most people I know in Marinas like the facilities provided and the security they offer, are you saying the majority of these people would be happy to leave their boats on the towpath to be broken into by anyone?

 

 

I didn't realise towpath moorings were so vulnerable

[Mike Tee]

Why were you at tickover?

 

Was your throttle cable broken?

Typical response - no relevent comment, so get smart (not).

[DeanS]

It costs £5000 for marina moorings (twice what we pay) because of supply and demand.

 

Not true! CRT are decreasing their online moorings , because of agreements they made with local planners (I stand to be corrected, but Sally Ash did mention something like this) , who want to protect marinas staying in business. CRT has thousands of miles of canals it could turn into online moorings for boat owners, overnight, at much lower costs, and increase CRT earnings, but it wont, because it made agreements to protect marina investments.

 

On another note, if I was a contunous moorer, I would go hide where there are no other boats. I wouldnt go joing an existing line of boats and make myself OBVIOUS.

[nicknorman]

Do you have any figures to prove this Diaspora is occurring?

No, I didn't say it was. I said "if". Once you turn a blind eye to abuse, it has the potential to proliferate and cause the problem even if it doesn't do so straight away. It's better to tackle such issues before they become a big problem, rather than afterwards.

I agree that things would have to go a long way before it was a big deal round our way. That said, marinas round here used to be full with waiting lists, now they are not, even though no new marinas have been built here recently (yet). Where did the boats go?

[carlt]

Typical response - no relevent comment, so get smart (not).

Actually it is a very relevant comment.

 

I pass moored boats at a reasonable speed but that is rarely tickover.

 

I make reasonable progress past moored boats and find that the drop from cruising speed to passing speed is hardly onerous.

 

I enjoy seeing moored boats especially if there are many different types though I accept, on narrow canals, miles and mile of clonecraft can be tedious so I divert my attention to the off-side where there is usually something of interest to look at.

 

I pity the miserable so-and-sos that get their kicks out of seething at what is going on on one side of the cut when something much more interesting can be seen on the other.

[cotswoldsman]

None, I didn't count them. If I had, together with the permanent moorings the number would have been much higher. I do know my area - used to live on board in MK at a permanent mooring, don't live on the boat any more, but I do have a boat on a mooring that I pay for.

 

How would you know if they had paid for winter moorings as CRT no longer issue window stickers unless requested.

[carlt]

Once you turn a blind eye to abuse, it has the potential to proliferate and cause the problem even if it doesn't do so straight away.

So how long before this much heralded diaspora occurs?

 

I recall there were similar hysterics when I moved ashore 6 years ago and people were sneering at the hippy boats when I moved aboard 16 years ago and doom merchants were predicting all out anarchy in 1995 oh and I was advised not to spend too much money on a canal boat, in 1984 because they'd all be filled in within 5 years.

 

The number of overstayers doesn't seem to have increased much since I was ccing in 1997 and the predictions of the end of the world still come and go.

[nicknorman]

Actually it is a very relevant comment.

 

I pass moored boats at a reasonable speed but that is rarely tickover.

 

I make reasonable progress past moored boats and find that the drop from cruising speed to passing speed is hardly onerous.

 

I enjoy seeing moored boats especially if there are many different types though I accept, on narrow canals, miles and mile of clonecraft can be tedious so I divert my attention to the off-side where there is usually something of interest to look at.

 

I pity the miserable so-and-sos that get their kicks out of seething at what is going on on one side of the cut when something much more interesting can be seen on the other.

That is your position, but should you expect all others to be exactly the same as you?

[carlt]

That is your position, but should you expect all others to be exactly the same as you?

There wouldn't be much of a discussion if they were.

 

What is the relevance of your post?

[cotswoldsman]

I didn't realise towpath moorings were so vulnerable

 

As they say you learn something every day in 2011 I left my boat for 3 months while I was away on winter moorings in Cropredy and it was broken into twice. jenlyn had his generator stolen last week. The guy I cruise with (Stan) had some kids this year come along with a screwdriver or something and on one side of his boat scratch it so badly that on Thursday his boat is going in for a complete repaint cost £4,500. Like anything you take a chance and if those that presently moor in marinas are prepared to take that chance that is ok but I doubt it somehow.