My boat sounds broken!

[Bill]

Thanks, everyone. I have a couple of questions.

 

1. How do I check engine mountings? What am I looking for?

 

2. What is a prop shaft coupling? Is that where the grease goes in?

 

3. I have no intention of taking the gearbox off! That will be an entirely last resort and something I will have to pay someone who knows what they're doing, to do. As I'm skint, it's very much a last resort.

 

4. I thought about checking under the weed hatch but couldn't even loosen the screwy clamp bit today. I tried a little gentle persuasion with a hammer but then chickened out when it became clear it would need more than a few gentle taps, in case I busted something. I don't know if it's rusted, frozen or just really tight, I'll have another go at it and be a bit more brutish!

 

I know others have suggested different ways, but I find a big adjustable spanner or mole grips can be put on the end of the clamp T bar to get the necessary leverage. I've always found that hitting with a hammer just seems to make a loud noise unless you really clout it (mooring type hammer works best, not a silly little claw hammer)

[Chris Pink]

I'd squirt some WD40 onto the clamp screw type thread/nut several times and let that soak through. Then apply the hammer with lots of quite small taps, and more WD40 if needed.

After that, one or two serious blows should shift it. If it don't, its time to get ratty and give it a bloody great hiding with a sledgehammer - Basil Fawlty style!

 

No no no no no

 

Irresistible force is best applied with a lever, a piece of scaff tube on the handle. A few taps might loosen a rusty joint but don't whatever you do start hitting it with a hammer or you'll bend or break it.

 

I can't imagine any way swinging a heavy hammer in the confined space most weedhatch inhabit would apply effective force.

 

And the first thing irresistible force needs to be is effective.

[Darren72]

Best thing BSP to open your weed hatch is MONKEY grips!!

[BlueStringPudding]

Assuming you're on the GU I'm travelling up to Rugby tomorrow, could call by and offer another pair of hands / hammer / crowbar to check weedhatch.

 

You/you're edit.

 

That's very kind if you, thanks. Unfortunately I'll be at work again from tomorrow. So I'll have to decline your offer, but thanks. Much appreciated!

Edited January 13, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[Guest]

If you can get a large ring spanner over the end of the bar you will get extra leverage without mashing the bar which risks it shearing.

[BlueStringPudding]

Best thing BSP to open your weed hatch is MONKEY grips!!

 

 

Thanks everyone, I'll try using the tiller extension bar to lever it after dowsing the screwthread in Wd40. There's a fair amount of space around it, being a cruiser stern. Annoyingly, at the moment most of my tools are at work, i lent them to a project there. I'd better get them back sharpish!

 

Not sure if I'll get any daylight before I leave for work in the mornings, if I do I'll tinker then. And if the canal isn't completely frozen, I'll have another go tomorrow. It might have ro be a nighttime affair after work one evening. I'll report back when I next get an opportunity to poke around in there.

[Chris Pink]

If it moves a bit, move it back the other way before moving it a bit more, back and forward is less risky than just one way.

[twbm]

Poking about behind the prop with a boat hook might give you a clue.

 

I'll be on the way back Weds or Thurs if it's not resolved.

[boathunter]

I'd been cruising for a couple of hours yesterday when I heard a grinding noise from somewhere under my feet. A first I thought the boat was passing over some stones or similar in the canal. But after a few second of the grindy noise there was a Pop! Then the grindy noise got louder. There was no noticeable change in the engine performance or handling of the boat.

 

I quickly pulled in to the bank and moored up, and had a nosey around in the engine area, but couldn't see anything amiss. As I was losing the light I decided to wait till this morning to have a better look around.

 

So that's what I've spent this morning doing. Although the pop had sounded like something under pressure popping off, like a pipe disconnecting, there is nothing I can see that's either loose or not connected.

 

So I tried the engine. It's running fine even at high revs. However when in gear, at anything more than the slowest slow rate, there is a loud uncomfortable sounding rattle when the prop is turning. It's the same in reverse. I took the boat back out of gear and could turn the prop shaft easily by hand with no unusual feeling of resistance. Tried it again in gear, and the loud rattle came back. There wasn't any obvious unusual lateral movement in the prop shaft when it was turning.

 

Despite the noise, I've obviously still got propulsion, but I don't want to move the boat in case this is a sign that something big is going to go wrong. I can just about commute to work from where I've "broken down" although it's not ideal. I had a new drive plate installed in about 2008, could that have died already? Can anyone suggest what the problem could be and what can be done to identify it and sort it out?

 

Thanks everyone!

Doesn't sound like something round the prop shaft.

[furnessvale]

Doesn't sound like something round the prop shaft.

Perhaps not but I would certainly check that before taking the gearbox out:-)

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

 

Thanks everyone, I'll try using the tiller extension bar to lever it after dowsing the screwthread in Wd40.

 

Just be a bit careful if the tiller extension is brass. You can get a fair old leverage with a long bar and you may just split it.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Guest]

Perhaps not but I would certainly check that before taking the gearbox out:-)

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

So true - a prop shaft will still turn easily with something light but noisy round it.....

 

try fishing line with a hook... no drag, easy turn by hand but an irritating click.

 

Been there too.....

[MtB]

BSP what is the make and model of your enjun and geebox?

 

MtB

[bizzard]

I presume the device holding the lid down is a large threaded shaft with a T type handle on top, most are.

Oil the the thread where it passes though the clamp arrangement and drop some oil down on the lid where the T handled shaft pivots on to press the lid down, leave for a bit to soak in.

This T shaft should have a normal right handed thread so looking down upon it from above it turns anti-clockwise to undo it.

Perhaps BSP you were trying to undo it in the clockwise direction?

Any oil or even cooking oil will soak in as these threads are not usually of the fine and precision type but course and slackish in the clamp. As mentioned a little extra leverage with a bit of pipe or a ring spanner slid over the T handle, preferably 2 bits of pipe one on either arm of the T handle as this will spread the load and enable two handed leverage.

Once off grease this thread thoroughly whilst winding the T screw up and down the clamp bracket.

Listening sticks are all the rage at the mo.

[BlueStringPudding]

BSP what is the make and model of your enjun and geebox?

 

MtB

 

Kubota 3 cylinder engine. PRM gearbox (I think Delta but not sure)

 

I'm hoping my earlier thread about the boat remaining in gear even when the gearstick is in neutral, isn't related to this new problem. I'll feed back when I attack the weed hatch which I might do tonight if I'm in the mood for freezing cold water and darkness, or I might do it early tomorrow morning (if I'm in the mood for freezing cold water and darkness!).

Edited January 14, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[boathunter]

...I'm hoping my earlier thread about the boat remaining in gear even when the gearstick is in neutral, isn't related to this new problem.

Hmmm.

[casper ghost]

Hmmm.

Agreed, sounding more like a look at the prop may not help.

Casp'

[MtB]

Hmmm.

 

I agree. Very Hmmmmm indeed.

 

Where mechanically stuff is concerned, apparent coincidences usually turn out to be connected in my experience. My guess now is, this might just be your gearbox continuing to wreck itself. Or the drive plate has been damaged by the failing gearbox. Or something like that.

 

I don't suppose that helps one bit....

 

MtB

[PaulJ]

Might be worth checking the oil level in the gearbox. Also have a close look at the oil on the dipstick (presuming your gearbox has one)-does it look a bit sparkly,milky or something else unexpected ?

[BlueStringPudding]

Gearbox oil was topped up just before I set off. I checked it with the dipstick after filling it and the level was perfect. The oil, needless to say, was clean, if that changed in the space of the two hours or so cruising, then I don't know without checking again.

Edited January 14, 2013 by BlueStringPudding

[boathunter]

I agree. Very Hmmmmm indeed.

 

Where mechanically stuff is concerned, apparent coincidences usually turn out to be connected in my experience. My guess now is, this might just be your gearbox continuing to wreck itself. Or the drive plate has been damaged by the failing gearbox. Or something like that.

 

I don't suppose that helps one bit....

 

MtB

That's exactly what I was thinking, but didn't want to say. Let's hope we're wrong.

[Toad555]

Any further progress on this one?

 

I've recently recovered from a prob with my PRM Delta gearbox, thankfully no nasty noises but it kept spitting all the oil out into the engine tray.

Turned out to be the input shaft seal which was under a fiver plus new oil.

 

Reason I mentioned this is because I had to take the gearbox out to fit the new seal and it wasn't so bad, what I did discover is that its a fairly tough gearbox and also not too heavy to take out.

You can easy do this on your own with only a handful of tools too.

[Tony Brooks]

I seem to recall that some PRMs used pop rivets in the clutch assemblies that caused problems. I do not know if some Deltas did but if they did it could be the cause. However I would still want to make sure nothing was around the prop. BSPs symptoms sound very like those I experienced when we picked up a set of Walkman type earphones.

[BlueStringPudding]

Ooh, what's an input shaft seal? My gearbox still doesn't fully hang on to its oil despite new drain plug, washer and newish pipes. I've reduced it to a slow leak, but none of the mechanics who've looked at it over the years have suggested an input shaft seal might be the problem.

 

As for progress on the noise, I've only got as far as putting WD40 on the weed hatch screw thread doohickey. That's all so far as I work/travel for work 14 hours a day and decided that cooking dinner and getting the fire going were priorities over night-time frozen bilge delvings late last night. I'll let you know when I've explored the weed hatch and either ruled earphones or barbed wire in or out of the equation!

[Toad555]

It all depends where your oil is leaking from, mine was pretty much pouring out of the front of the gearbox where it joins onto the engine.

The input shaft seal is a 30mm rubber oil seal that seals the front input shaft where the gearbox attaches to the engine.

 

The chap from Primrose Engineering was really helpful with my oil leak and posted all these pics on his website http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/prm-delta/

I've also got a few pictures of my gearbox removal which I'll try to post later, they're on my phone at present.

If you have to take the gearbox out I guess its well worth getting the whole seal kit from ASAP supplies only about £20 inc P&P and has every single seal and O ring.

 

Only really worth it if you have to remove the gearbox, I guess if your noise turns out to be just prop fouling then no need to remove the gearbox, I had no choice as mine was spraying all the oil out in about 20mins.

 

I think mine was easier to get off as the engine is mid mounted too so it was a nice job of kneeling down beside the engine to work rather than being cramped in a Trad stern or cruiser.

[BlueStringPudding]

Well, I've just spent a frustrating hour and a half in the freezing cold dark, trying to loosen the weed hatch clamp. I was nearly thwarted at the first stage as the deck hatch was frozen shut! It took a bit of a Riverdance on top of both hatches to break through the frost enough to lift them!

 

The weedhatch has had plenty of WD40 soaking in for 12 hours, but I couldn't manage so much as a mm turn. I tried a kettle of hot water over it. Still nothing. Completely solid. The angle the handle is at, typically, means that I can't get the tiller extension in as a lever after all (back of the hull is in the way on one side, and the vertical drainage channel pipe is in the way on the other side). I've tried different ways of tapping it, wiggling it, and using all my strength to turn it in either direction (and I'm not a small lass) but nothing. And now I've strained my back by trying to do it, so I'm rather regretting not giving up as soon as I realised it didn't want to shift.

 

So I've just sat down, put Winterwatch on the tele and poured myself a glass of port. Not sure what the next move is in the absence of a suitable item to use as a lever. Any ideas?

Edited January 15, 2013 by BlueStringPudding