Continuous Cruising/Mooring

[MtB]

Actually I don't believe overstaying is much of a problem at all.

 

I believe that BW's failure to use its powers to enforce obstruction of VMs or "utility" moorings has led to hysteria over harmless overstaying in non-sensitive areas.

 

I don't think a boat being moored in a remote spot on unrestricted towpath impacts on anyone.

 

I agree, but the two issues are the same 'offence', so it is hard to call for enforcement of VM hogging without objections from the 'middle of nowhere' CMers who are doing no harm.

 

Damn, these rules are rubbish. Lets ignore them. Well, some of them.

 

 

MtB

[Chris Pink]

I agree, but the two issues are the same 'offence', so it is hard to call for enforcement of VM hogging without objections from the 'middle of nowhere' CMers who are doing no harm.

 

Damn, these rules are rubbish. Lets ignore them. Well, some of them.

 

 

MtB

 

The main difference is that if it is agreed that the abuse of visitor moorings is the 'problem' then it robs you of your platform to label boats without a home mooring as the culprits because visitor mooring abuse is perpetrated by all sorts of boater.

 

And that takes all the fun out of a thread like this.

[lesrollins]

That's a pretty bold statement to make without any supporting evidence.

 

Could you cite the relevant legislation supporting your assertion?

 

You would need to read the agreement for a leisure mooring it clearly states a leisure mooring is not to be used for resdential use. Anyway must dash the patrol boats about lol

[matty40s]

Cruising around the shroppie, s&w, t&m, coventry, north oxford, north stratford and GU since the end of October, I can say that there have been no congestion issues, visitor moorings have been mostly empty or sparsely moored on, and it has been lovely cruising.

Therefore, i believe the problems lie in the minds of the occasional cruisers (OC), holiday cruisers (HC), paid our moorings and jealous of c-cers(POMAJOCC) and obviously those suffering from cabin or office fever.(COOF).

However, I would never be one to typecast people.

[DeanS]

ok, another angle on this:)

 

If I leave my current marina, I would save £250 per month (marina fees and council tax.)

I would then be happy to buy my teenage son a boat as well, and pay more C&RT licence fees.

This would increase C&RTs income which is the only way to SAVE THE WATERWAYS

 

tadaaaaa! (fanfare).

 

LOL.

 

 

Cruising around the shroppie, s&w, t&m, coventry, north oxford, north stratford and GU since the end of October, I can say that there have been no congestion issues, visitor moorings have been mostly empty or sparsely moored on, and it has been lovely cruising.

Therefore, i believe the problems lie in the minds of the occasional cruisers (OC), holiday cruisers (HC), paid our moorings and jealous of c-cers(POMAJOCC) and obviously those suffering from cabin or office fever.(COOF).

However, I would never be one to typecast people.

 

Having cruised the northen canals for a year, I can say that I saw no congestion issues either, so together that makes up a huge area....probably 75% of the system.

[GUMPY]

I wonder if BW had used its powers to move boats obstructing VMs, water points, lock landings and other sensitive locations there would be less hysteria about harmless overstaying on more remote unrestricted sites.

Near me there, up untiil a couple of weeks ago ,has been a piece of canal that was solid CM, always the same boats, one first arrived 10 years ago.

They had cars that they parked on the verge in the lane partially blocking the lane.

Six months ago the council put posts blocking the verge these were removed and thrown in the hedge.

A month ago the council raised the kerb, replaced the posts, which again were removed.

Two weeks ago a local put in some decent fence posts along the verge and now all the boats are gone, except one cruiser that is not a liveaboard.

 

Its not the fact tbat they take up residence on the towpath thats the problem its all the rest of the sh1t that goes with them.

[sueb]

As I have said before I believe it is more to do with fairness than congestion. Did we have these issues before BW started to charge for towpath moorings?

[alan_fincher]

As I have said before I believe it is more to do with fairness than congestion. Did we have these issues before BW started to charge for towpath moorings?

How far do you want to go back Sue?

 

In the 1960s and 1970s there were very few moorings that were not BW towpath moorings.

 

And they certainly charged for them.

 

I have no idea if there was ever a time since nationalisation of the waterways when BTC / BW didn't charge for normal towpath moorings, but I rather doubt it?

[carlt]

As I have said before I believe it is more to do with fairness than congestion.

But it comes across as "envy rather than inconvenience."

 

Its not the fact tbat they take up residence on the towpath thats the problem its all the rest of the sh1t that goes with them.

Then C&RT needs to use its powers to clear the towpath.

 

It would appear, from your description, that there are laws being broken that are far easier to enforce than overstaying.

[GUMPY]

Indeed criminal damage for one

[Fu Manchu]

 

It would appear, from your description, that there are laws being broken that are far easier to enforce than overstaying.

 

 

Really?

 

It should be easy to demonstrate who is over-staying; much less easy to prove who caused the criminal damage.

[pevil]

(I guess another dimension to this is that compliant, law-abiding boaters who stump up large sums of money like this for a home mooring in order to comply with the rules, get jerky when they see other boaters flout those rules and save themselves those same large sums of money)

 

Too right, apart from the cost of the boat itself mooring fees are the biggest outlay, lets all give up our home moorings and join the throng, how long would C&RT and the canals last then.....ther's always people who are prepared to bend/break the rules or just totally ignore them and you'll not change that/them.

[carlt]

Really?

 

It should be easy to demonstrate who is over-staying; much less easy to prove who caused the criminal damage.

Perhaps but first you have to prove which one is an actual crime before identifying the perpetrator.

 

(I guess another dimension to this is that compliant, law-abiding boaters who stump up large sums of money like this for a home mooring in order to comply with the rules

 

Yes this other dimension is the hysterical reaction that I mentioned before.

 

I've never had the ability to get excited about somebody paying nothing for services they don't get, when I'm paying something because I want those services.

 

I drink loads of coffee too.

[lesrollins]

Some ccers do not bend the rules anymore than someone living on a leisure mooring. so why doesn,t crt do something about that, perhaps i need to ask them just to see the answer

[carlt]

Some ccers do not bend the rules anymore than someone living on a leisure mooring. so why doesn,t crt do something about that, perhaps i need to ask them just to see the answer

Perhaps you could cite the legislation that these moorers are flouting?

 

If you are going to try to create a new Aunt Sally to chuck stuff at you could at least provide some evidence...

[alan_fincher]

Some ccers do not bend the rules anymore than someone living on a leisure mooring. so why doesn,t crt do something about that, perhaps i need to ask them just to see the answer

Discussed elsewhere.

 

You are welcome to talk to CRT about people living on leisure moorings, but I don't think you will make a lot of headway.

 

They have made it fairly clear that generally they see it as a matter for local councils and planning authorities, and will not generally intervene themselves, I think.

[lesrollins]

Perhaps you could cite the legislation that these moorers are flouting?

 

If you are going to try to create a new Aunt Sally to chuck stuff at you could at least provide some evidence...

Look at a leisure mooring agreement it states not to be used for residential use

You can,t have one rule for one set of boaters and another rule for the other set. But i suppose the difference is the leisure moorers using it for residential use are lining the pockets of crt so they get left alone.

[Tuscan]

A question

 

As CRT is now an independant charity can the trusts board make or amend rules as to how it manages the assets it owns, ie towpath, canal and infrastructure? If it can't does it need an act of parliament to effect a change or what is the process?

 

Rather than have lots of associations and interest groups who do not perhaps represent the majority of boaters why doesnt CRT frame a consultative questionaire around the issues it believes addressing - wider than just this thread I hope and poll all licensed boats to get a clear picture of the interest and concerns of the boating community.

 

This might at least help them frame so policy statements that have the backing of the majority and provide backing for any changes in legislation if they are needed.

 

This would also give clear guidance to our elected boater representatives.

[lesrollins]

Discussed elsewhere.

 

You are welcome to talk to CRT about people living on leisure moorings, but I don't think you will make a lot of headway.

 

They have made it fairly clear that generally they see it as a matter for local councils and planning authorities, and will not generally intervene themselves, I think.

So crt make the rules but don,t follow it up unless you are non compliant cc er nice!

[calamity507]

Shouldnt we all just worry about what we are doing , I paid my licence and moorings , and yes it was annoying that I struggled to do this and others werent , but my conscience was clear . I have far better things to do than concern myself , with other peoples business,and I know for a fact that what was told by another boater to the o p , is fact , I have heard it being said , just move for half an hour every 2 weeks and that will be fine . Then of course there is the snitch boat at Stowe Hill, who logs every boat that moors , and times them on the water point, during the winter months . It really is pathetic .

[carlt]

Look at a leisure mooring agreement it states not to be used for residential use

You can,t have one rule for one set of boaters and another rule for the other set. But i suppose the difference is the leisure moorers using it for residential use are lining the pockets of crt so they get left alone.

C&RT have no powers to enforce planning regulations nor do they define "residential use" so they are unlikely to take enforcement action unless the local authority does.

[Fu Manchu]

Perhaps but first you have to prove which one is an actual crime before identifying the perpetrator.

 

So you believe that rules about overstaying can only be enforced if it is a criminal offence?

[Grace and Favour]

You can,t have one rule for one set of boaters and another rule for the other set. But i suppose the difference is the leisure moorers using it for residential use are lining the pockets of crt so they get left alone.

 

I thought that boaters that pay all their dues are actually contributing towards the running costs of CaRT . .

 

You really do appear to enjoy a rather myopic view of life

[carlt]

So you believe that rules about overstaying can only be enforced if it is a criminal offence?

I think I made it clear that I believe that overstaying is not really much of a problem and the hysteria levelled against harmless overstaying is bred from BW's failure to enforce obstruction of VMs and utility moorings.

[Guest]

You are welcome to talk to CRT about people living on leisure moorings, but I don't think you will make a lot of headway.

 

They have made it fairly clear that generally they see it as a matter for local councils and planning authorities, and will not generally intervene themselves, I think.

So crt make the rules but don,t follow it up unless you are non compliant cc er nice!

 

The reason for this was covered that last time you raised it and was ably explained by Dave Mayall and now re-enforced by Carl in his post above.

 

They are not CRT's 'rules' to enforce, if somebody is abusing the planning regs attached to a mooring site it is up to the local authority to determine that and take appropriate action.