ccers-CRT meeting.

[jenlyn]

To my surprise, the meeting with CART was quite productive. Peter McDonald took minutes and will produce a small statement of what was discussed. Once he has done that, we will post It on here.

To just basically round it up, CART wish to consult with ccers and move forward with input from us. They made it quite clear that they wish ccers to be involved in any future proposals.

Alan Fincher I am sure will input his views from his side of the fence regarding leisure boaters and 24-48hr moorings.

Cotswoldwoman attended also and was a definite plus on the team. Though he was at some point in the meeting converted to a chugger!

As for Sally Ash, she's a pussycat! Strong views but more than willing to help us work towards some sort of harmony.

The one minus from it all? The coffee was crxp, nice biscuits though

Thanks to Alan and john for attending, very much appreciated.

[Ange]

To my surprise, the meeting with CART was quite productive. Peter McDonald took minutes and will produce a small statement of what was discussed. Once he has done that, we will post It on here.

To just basically round it up, CART wish to consult with ccers and move forward with input from us. They made it quite clear that they wish ccers to be involved in any future proposals.

Alan Fincher I am sure will input his views from his side of the fence regarding leisure boaters and 24-48hr moorings.

Cotswoldwoman attended also and was a definite plus on the team. Though he was at some point in the meeting converted to a chugger!

As for Sally Ash, she's a pussycat! Strong views but more than willing to help us work towards some sort of harmony.

The one minus from it all? The coffee was crxp, nice biscuits though

Thanks to Alan and john for attending, very much appreciated.

 

Wow! Sounds very promising. I'm very aware that as a cc'er I need to stop just burbling on here and get involved as well.

 

Thank you

[Pentargon]

I stopped burbling some time ago but have yet to get to an actual meeting. Ta Jenlyn for doing the honours tonight/last night.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Pentargon

[jenlyn]

Wow! Sounds very promising. I'm very aware that as a cc'er I need to stop just burbling on here and get involved as well.

 

Thank you

I think it's come to a point where ccers need to get involved with this. The need to portray an image to CART that ccers are not all rebels and nccc's. They accepted this at the meeting. They had no qualms about the fact they had helped cause the overstay ing problem, and pointed out it was not just ccers overstaying.

They want our help in sorting this out and I believe it's in all our interests to be involved in it, thus having some sort of say in our future.

You don't have to go to meetings to be involved, (though i would welcome anyone wishing to do so)there's no hard work involved. We just need sensible input on how to move forward. A forum member has offered to host a website, if this is something ccers would like, let me know.

[Tuscan]

Sounds promising, these issues will effect us all. Like Alan I suspect we currently have a home mooring but cc through the summer. Its when words become deeds that matters. To become a legitimate voice or pressure group perhaps the first thing is to discover how many people you actually represent.

[lesrollins]

Well done jenlyn and the rest of the team who attended the meeting. Its good to know that cart s views of cc ers are not all negative its a pity certain members on this site don t have the same reasoning. I think a website for cc ers would be a great idea, hopefully the people who think of cc ers as pikey and scum and the people who keep quoting the various cart rules and regs that we already know would be kept from the site. Cheers to all cc ers

[blackrose]

Well done jenlyn and the rest of the team who attended the meeting. Its good to know that cart s views of cc ers are not all negative its a pity certain members on this site don t have the same reasoning. I think a website for cc ers would be a great idea, hopefully the people who think of cc ers as pikey and scum and the people who keep quoting the various cart rules and regs that we already know would be kept from the site. Cheers to all cc ers

 

An exclusive website restricted to those who share the same opinion? That doesn't really sound very balanced or open-minded.

[Martin Megson]

Well done jenlyn and the rest of the team who attended the meeting. Its good to know that cart s views of cc ers are not all negative its a pity certain members on this site don t have the same reasoning. I think a website for cc ers would be a great idea, hopefully the people who think of cc ers as pikey and scum and the people who keep quoting the various cart rules and regs that we already know would be kept from the site. Cheers to all cc ers

 

Although I'm not a CCer I would suggest CCers are better served by staying with a joint forum rather than forming a breakaway splinter group. I understand your frustration at being stereotyped but I think we all stand a to benefit from a single boating community working together with CaRT who seem, from this meeting, to be willing to work with the CCers to improve their lot. I hope CaRT can clarify and simplify the regulations and then enforce them and remove the the small minority that spoil the canals for the vast majority of considerate users, be they CCers or not.

[Proper Job]

An exclusive website restricted to those who share the same opinion? That doesn't really sound very balanced or open-minded.

Why would it be restricted? Who has said it would be restricted?

[lesrollins]

An exclusive website for exclusive people sounds good to me old boy

[cotswoldsman]

Jenlyn and peter McDonald put a lot of hard work into this meeting and I would like to thank them both. To be able to discuss issues with a Trustee, Head of Mooring for CaRT and Sally Ash was in my opinion very productive. To hear things from CaRT first hand without amateur lawyers etc was great. As for forming a CCing group this would be purely to ensure that the voice of GENUINE ccers is heard as it is in the real word without the perceived word of certain boaters. The meeting was held in the spirit it was intended with no confrontation but both parties listening to each other. I for one now have a far better understanding of CaRT's problems and I think they have a better understanding of our problems. I will wait for Peter's summary before posting anything that was actually discussed.

As for being a chugger well it was just that I thought chuggers are seen in a better light than ccers!!!!!!!!!

[Leni]

Congratulations on a good and productive meeting, and many, many thanks to all those involved!

[tillergirl]

Aside from anything said above..........Smiffy and I will be novice CC'ers come next spring. Obviously we're not aware of what problems/advantages we may come across as we bimble around the system but will be quite happy to give you some input from our newbies point of view.

[Graham.m]

Congrats all on opening a dialogue, I hope that you are allowed to publish all that came out at the meeting.

 

Re: A CCers website, as a non-CCer I feel that it should be restricted to CCers. Trouble is how do you definitely identify someone as a CCer.

 

A suggestion CaRT records recorded all CCers, maybe Cart can drop a letter to all CCers pointing to the website. I would suggest that it would help CaRT as well as the CCers.

 

Also maybe a couple of people in CaRT should be invited to be members of the site.

[Jim]

Perhaps cc'ers now wishing to engage more with the Trust could begin by using its preferred acronym of "CRT" rather than the somwhat derogatory "CART"?

Edited November 29, 2012 by Jim

[Proper Job]

I'm not a CC'er

 

Can I continue using CART? Will CRT only be available to CC'ers

 

[alan_fincher]

Well done jenlyn and the rest of the team who attended the meeting. Its good to know that cart s views of cc ers are not all negative its a pity certain members on this site don t have the same reasoning. I think a website for cc ers would be a great idea, hopefully the people who think of cc ers as pikey and scum and the people who keep quoting the various cart rules and regs that we already know would be kept from the site. Cheers to all cc ers

 

Although I'm not a CCer I would suggest CCers are better served by staying with a joint forum rather than forming a breakaway splinter group. I understand your frustration at being stereotyped but I think we all stand a to benefit from a single boating community working together with CaRT who seem, from this meeting, to be willing to work with the CCers to improve their lot. I hope CaRT can clarify and simplify the regulations and then enforce them and remove the the small minority that spoil the canals for the vast majority of considerate users, be they CCers or not.

Although this meeting was largely to discuss (genuine) CC-er concerns, I was pleased to get an invite to it. I think I was the only non CC-er boater present - slightly unnerving, but they were quite gentle with me (!) I hope I was able to make useful input, because, trust me, some proposals if unchallenged will affect many non CC-ers as well as those who are.

 

It is my strong belief that the last thing we need to be doing is further building any divides that centre on any categorisations such as CC-er/marina/towpath moorer or residential/non-residential - something I adhered to through my Council election campaign, and presumably why my support spread across a whole range of supporters from all camps. Many of the cc-ers don't ask for, (or want), special treatment either - they just don't want to be margnalised.

 

I don't actually get the impression that CRT are that interested in continuing these divides either, or at least not unless they are being heavily pressurised by external forces, which can, (from my perception), include those living or trading near the canals, hire boat businesses or even the IWA shooting a line they think pleases their membership. The "enemy" some of the time, it seems to me, is not actually CRT, but those seeking to influence them.

 

I would not be interested in continuing to support an initiative that saw itself as trying to protect CC-ers to the exclusion of other boat owners on the canal. That makes no sense to me with them making up maybe around only one eighth of the total number. However their significance should not be underestimated, and they bring huge advantages to the rest of us that we would not have without them. (How many fuel boats, would there be, for example, if there were only recreational leisure boats on the canals? - How many more canal-side businesses would die without them?).

 

Finally you have got to hope that initiatives like this pay off. One of your elected boater representatives to Council was present last night, and frankly if his input last night was typical, it is not hard to see why Council already seems to be a way of rubber stamping what CRT (and the IWA??) want, rather than something that is likely in its current guise to seriously challenge anything.

 

Please be positive about this initiative, and grateful to Peter and "Jenlyn" for making it happen.

[Graham.m]

Perhaps cc'ers now wishing to engage more with the Trust could begin by using its preferred acronym of "CRT" rather than the somwhat derogatory "CART"?

 

mmmm In letters etc to me CaRT people use CaRT

 

Where does the TRust specify CRT or Cathode Ray Tube

[Higgs]

As for forming a CCing group this would be purely to ensure that the voice of GENUINE ccers is heard as it is in the real word without the perceived word of certain boaters. The meeting was held in the spirit it was intended with no confrontation but both parties listening to each other.

 

We can't all attend these useful meetings. Look forward to reading the statement.

 

There are all kinds of dedicated sites, specific to like minded people. Some may say parochial. The real world contains variety. That is what CRT will be dealing with.

 

Having a CCing group may ensure a loud voice, but won't avoid having to deal with other influences; as CRT will have to do. No one that has ever used the canal or listened to a variety of opinions could be credited with the amount of ignorance characterised by certain people's views.

 

I can't see a brick wall from where I am, but I can imagine one and describe one. I think it's a fallacy to insist that everything must be right in front of you before you can qualify as having some understanding. You know what it feels like to be burned, do you use your imagination and experience to fill in the gaps, without having to experience the burn again.

 

If you dismiss all other boaters in your equation, you will have succeded in demonstating a closed mind.

[Rich]

I suppose what we CCers could do with is an organisation to look after our affairs. You could call it the "Residential Boat Owners Association".

[Tuscan]

Although this meeting was largely to discuss (genuine) CC-er concerns, I was pleased to get an invite to it. I think I was the only non CC-er boater present - slightly unnerving, but they were quite gentle with me (!) I hope I was able to make useful input, because, trust me, some proposals if unchallenged will affect many non CC-ers as well as those who are.

 

It is my strong belief that the last thing we need to be doing is further building any divides that centre on any categorisations such as CC-er/marina/towpath moorer or residential/non-residential - something I adhered to through my Council election campaign, and presumably why my support spread across a whole range of supporters from all camps. Many of the cc-ers don't ask for, (or want), special treatment either - they just don't want to be margnalised.

 

I don't actually get the impression that CRT are that interested in continuing these divides either, or at least not unless they are being heavily pressurised by external forces, which can, (from my perception), include those living or trading near the canals, hire boat businesses or even the IWA shooting a line they think pleases their membership. The "enemy" some of the time, it seems to me, is not actually CRT, but those seeking to influence them.

 

I would not be interested in continuing to support an initiative that saw itself as trying to protect CC-ers to the exclusion of other boat owners on the canal. That makes no sense to me with them making up maybe around only one eighth of the total number. However their significance should not be underestimated, and they bring huge advantages to the rest of us that we would not have without them. (How many fuel boats, would there be, for example, if there were only recreational leisure boats on the canals? - How many more canal-side businesses would die without them?).

 

Finally you have got to hope that initiatives like this pay off. One of your elected boater representatives to Council was present last night, and frankly if his input last night was typical, it is not hard to see why Council already seems to be a way of rubber stamping what CRT (and the IWA??) want, rather than something that is likely in its current guise to seriously challenge anything.

 

Please be positive about this initiative, and grateful to Peter and "Jenlyn" for making it happen.

 

 

 

 

I am in total agreement with you Alan we should speak as boating community where we can , can someone please summarise what was discussed and what the principle view of the CRT members were?

[Graham.m]

I suppose what we CCers could do with is an organisation to look after our affairs. You could call it the "Residential Boat Owners Association".

 

Not sure CCers and Residential Boat Owners have the same problems. I think that a fair number of CCers problems are unique to them and not the same as boats on residendtial moorings who have a different set of concerns. On balance a CCers group could be a very good thing for everyone.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Graham.m

[Flocal]

Have i missed something....problems, what problems?

 

I know roughly about 40 CCers and none of them have any problems what so ever apart from emptying a pump out in the ice

 

[Rich]

Not sure CCers and Residential Boat Owners have the same problems. I think that a fair number of CCers problems are unique to them and not the same as boats on residendtial moorings who have a different set of concerns. On balance a CCers group could be a very good thing for everyone.

I suspect that most, but not all, CCers are residential boaters. The more specialised a group's membership is the smaller it becomes and therefore the less impact it has. Despite what you can read the RBOA does have CCers interests in mind. Unless, of course, they have changed direction recently and not mentioned it.

 

Have i missed something....problems, what problems?

 

As a CCer the only problem I have is when dimwits refer to all CCers as CMers. And even this is not really a problem, more of an annoyance akin to the occasional fly buzzing round.

[ditchcrawler]

I suppose what we CCers could do with is an organisation to look after our affairs. You could call it the "Residential Boat Owners Association".

You don't need to be residential to be a CCer, some share boats do that.