marine 16 additive to avoid diesel bug

[DeanS]

ello:)

My engine has a "water seperator" on the fuel intake (if I remember correctly).

Do I still need to worry about diesel bug.

It's a brand new engine.

First winter with it.

Missing my old Lister now

 

Someone mentioned this stuff.

Shall I buy this.

I have £50 diesel in the tank at the moment. New boat. One trip home. Didnt fill it.

I'm buying another £20 diesel tomorrow. No money:)

If I then buy this additive and mix it into the £20 worth, and add it to the existing £50 worth...

 

is this a good plan to winterise it?

Only going to run the engine once a week for 15mins through the winter.

Do you recommend this...(seems better than letting it stand unused till Feb/March?

 

ta.

[bargemast]

The "fuel-bug" is a strange thing, it's depending a lot from where your fuel came from, and how long it was in the tanks of you supplier

 

If you're lucky, you'll never ever have this bug problem, but I've known several commercial barges that had serious bug problems , and expensive repairs to fuel injection pumps, and injectors because of this.

 

 

For running your engine 15 mins one a weel through the winter, I don't think that that is a good idea, as the engine will not reach it's right temperature, the cooling liquid may, but the oil won't, and it will create condensation, and will ruin the good quality of your engine oil.

 

Everytime you post a message, I give it another try to read your widebeam blog, that hasn't progressed since sept 7th, I hope that that is just because you're too busy with the fit-out to waist time on your blog for the moment.

 

I wish you all the success you need while doing this huge job.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter.

[Tony Brooks]

ello:)

My engine has a "water seperator" on the fuel intake (if I remember correctly).

Do I still need to worry about diesel bug.

It's a brand new engine.

First winter with it.

Missing my old Lister now

 

Someone mentioned this stuff.

Shall I buy this.

I have £50 diesel in the tank at the moment. New boat. One trip home. Didnt fill it.

I'm buying another £20 diesel tomorrow. No money:)

If I then buy this additive and mix it into the £20 worth, and add it to the existing £50 worth...

 

is this a good plan to winterise it?

Only going to run the engine once a week for 15mins through the winter.

Do you recommend this...(seems better than letting it stand unused till Feb/March?

 

ta.

 

 

Assuming from your blog that this is a new build rather than a refit of an old boat.

 

AS Peter says bug is a strange beast. Some people never have problems and simply ignore their fuel tank while other have a major problem despite taking steps to combat it, and every combination in between.

 

If this is a new boat then you would be very unlucky to hit problems this year BUT if you bought some contaminated diesel you could.

 

You can never totally eliminate bug problems but each precaution you take lowers the odds of it being a problem.

 

Bio-diesel (up to 7% in road fuel and from some canalside outlets) has certain advantages for the bugs so trying to avoid buying fuel containing it. However in certain locations this may not be possible.

 

Bugs need water to survive so take all the steps you can not minimise the water content of your tank (bio absorbs water more than mineral diesel). These steps may include draining the bottom of the tank every year and using an additive (see below).

 

Additives fall into two categories. Emulsifiers that makes the fuel absorb water and demulsifiers that force it to drop out. The latter may well contain a biocide to kill the bug. The emulsifiers are very heavily implicated in causing problems of their own that have similar initial symptoms to bug so I would avoid those but if you use a demulsifier like the one you mention you MUST drain the bottom of the tank each year. (I have sent a piece to the magazine showing how I do this on my boat for possible use in their "freeby" publication but I do not know if they will use it. If they do not over the next year I will put it on my website).

 

At each service make sure that you closely inspect your filters for early signs of bug.

 

Your water trap is just that, it may delay the symptoms of bug but will have no effect on it one way or the other apart from stopping a small amount of water being circulated back to the tank.

[Proper Job]

Your water seperator will not stop diesel bug growing in your tank

 

If you're really worried about it, treat the tank

 

In 40 years of boating, I've only ever personally known of one case of diesel bug. That was some friends who picked up some contaminated fuel in Gibraltar.

 

Maybe I'm just lucky

[dmr]

All the replies are sensible advice, this forum is just so good.

I would suggest running the engine for at least a couple of hours and getting it all nice and hot. You could put it into gear to make work hard as you have good solid concrete banks where you moor???

As you propose to have such a low turnover of fuel then you will be a bit more at risk of diesel of bug, so a "precautionary" dose of marine16 will be a good idea. Its a very low dosage so a small bottle will last quite a while.

Also maybe drain a little fuel from the bottom of the tank at the end of winter just to check for any water.

 

I assume that you have an electric hook up, or just a very basic lifestyle????

 

............Dave

[Proper Job]

.............. You could put it into gear to make work hard as you have good solid concrete banks where you moor???

NO!

[bargemast]

One more thing that I'd forgotten is that in a fuel-tank that isn't full (specially during the winter) there'll be a lot more condensation, it's too bad that this liquid (fuel) is getting so bl..dy expensive, as it's a much better idea to keep your tank full, to avoid (or limit a maximum) the forming of condensation.

 

The alternative would be completely empty, and with a bottom drain (if there is one) open, to let the condensation drip out in a catch tray, and fill the tank up when you go cruising again.

 

Peter.

[Odana]

I had diesel bug last year. Marine 16 sorted it and I now still use it as a preventative. Small investment - big potential saving.

[Keeping Up]

There is also the additive Coval Aquasolve which claims to be neither an emulsifier nor a demulsifier. Their statement to me said:

 

"What I can say unequivocally is that Aquasolve is not an emulsifying agent as it is the only product available anywhere that completely solubilises water in middle distillate fuel. Emulsifying agents only temporarily combine the water and the fuel whereas Aquasolve permanently solubilises the water. We have samples that are 30 years old that haven’t separated..."

 

No connection, just a satisfied customer; all I can add is that I've been using it for 25 years and it seems to do the job, and it effectively sorted things for me on the two occasions when I have had water problems in my diesel. Whether I would have the bug if I hadn't been adding it, who can say?

 

MInd you, I just hate their word "solubilises"

 

 

 

 

[dmr]

NO!

 

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that Dean lives on that very strange concrete housing marina in Manchester, so running in gear is not really the crime that it would be out on the cut.

And looking at the mud here in Bedwyn today I am rather envious of Deans concrete towpath.

 

..........Dave

[nicknorman]

Another factor not yet mentioned is the location of the fuel tank. If, like many boats, it is in the counter then the external surface is mostly exposed to the wide variations in air temperature that we get, hence more propensity for the condensation that feeds bug. Some boats (including ours) have the tank under the water line, thus the external surface's temperature is pretty stable and the propensity for condensation is reduced. Or a tank entirely inside the boat, without an external surface, would have much the same benefit.

 

If you are going to keep your tank low on fuel and with a low turn-over, which it sounds as though you are, you are in the worst condition for condensation (lots of air in the tank) and bug, so I think a bit of 16 would be a good idea, plus of course checking for water in the tank on a regular basis. By the time it reaches the separator, it will probably be too late|

Edited November 14, 2012 by nicknorman

[ditchcrawler]

Dean, do you use the diesel for anything else, if not and you are only going to run the engine rather than letting it stand you may do better to drain the tank and have a small day tank connected to the engine to run it say once a month for a couple of hours at a time. You would only need 5 lts capacity.

[DeanS]

Thanks all for the comments.

I'm not too keen on emptying the tank all the way, storing diesel in cans all winter, and refilling, etc etc...so I think I'll add a bit of Marine 16....and get one of those suction pipe sqeeze things...and shove it down every 2 weeks...and try and suck out any water that might drop to the bottom of the tank (water is heavier I've heard?). I dont mind sucking out some good diesel at the same time, which should mean that any water will be sitting lower than the feed to the engine. The additive should stop the bug. Do you think I'll be ok with this methodology? Thanks for the comment about only running the engine for 15mins. I'll try run it for an hour at a time. I've been a bit worried about starting it up in the middle of the ice/snow months.....is it best to keep starting it, or just leave it idle till things warm up?

 

ETA...sorry, havent had time to update the blog, mainly because since family arrived on board, the work stopped:) Plan on cruising in Feb/March, so will get a lot done before then..and perhaps post more:)

Edited November 14, 2012 by DeanS

[ditchcrawler]

. Do you think I'll be ok with this methodology? Thanks for the comment about only running the engine for 15mins. I'll try run it for an hour at a time. I've been a bit worried about starting it up in the middle of the ice/snow months.....is it best to keep starting it, or just leave it idle till things warm up?

 

ETA...sorry, havent had time to update the blog, mainly because since family arrived on board, the work stopped:) Plan on cruising in Feb/March, so will get a lot done before then..and perhaps post more:)

Lots of boats just lay there from October until April and come to no harm at all. I wouldn't run it more than once a month but when I did it would be for much more than 15 minutes.

[Guest]

I leave my tank pretty full from about now till March whilst laid up. I used to put either Fortron or M 16 in, but have taken to using the M 16 "complete" in at all times, which claims to lube the dieasel pump and do various tasks. For what it costs, it seems worth it to me, and I'm a tight northener.

 

From the website: http://www.marine16.co.uk/acatalog/Fuel_Treatment_Guide.html

 

Quote "Diesel Fuel Complete

Diesel Fuel Complete now does all that Diesel Fuel Maintenance did but includes additives to prevent problems occurring due to using biodiesel and/or ULSD fuels.

 

Diesel Fuel Complete uplifts cetane value +3 for easier starting, prevents diesel bug growth, aids the breakup of slimes, demulsifies water content, reduces wear, cleans injectors and fuel systems to 0 deposits and keeps them clean, restores power and fuel consumption and reduces emissions." Unquote.

 

I suspect it is petrol with a drop of two stroke oil in it

Edited November 14, 2012 by Guest

[JamesWoolcock]

I use Fuel Set. Any comments?

 

James

[bowten]

Thanks all for the comments.

I'm not too keen on emptying the tank all the way, storing diesel in cans all winter, and refilling, etc etc...so I think I'll add a bit of Marine 16....and get one of those suction pipe sqeeze things...and shove it down every 2 weeks...and try and suck out any water that might drop to the bottom of the tank (water is heavier I've heard?). I dont mind sucking out some good diesel at the same time, which should mean that any water will be sitting lower than the feed to the engine. The additive should stop the bug. Do you think I'll be ok with this methodology? Thanks for the comment about only running the engine for 15mins. I'll try run it for an hour at a time. I've been a bit worried about starting it up in the middle of the ice/snow months.....is it best to keep starting it, or just leave it idle till things warm up?

 

ETA...sorry, havent had time to update the blog, mainly because since family arrived on board, the work stopped:) Plan on cruising in Feb/March, so will get a lot done before then..and perhaps post more:)

Dean,I think you will find there is a drain tap on the fuel tank right at the bottom.You can use this to empty the tank if you need to.Run the engine by all means,however make sure it gets to or near operating temp before shutting down.

Edited November 14, 2012 by bowten

[Tony Brooks]

I use Fuel Set. Any comments?

 

James

 

 

So did I for about 10 years but this year changed to something that does not emulsify the water. It seems that both Eberspacher (from conversation at the 2010 London Boat Show) and RCR have had problems with a odd waxy mousse like stuff in tanks using an emulsifier. I have seen a technical report RCR commissioned from an expert organisation and am convinced that under certain condition and fuel compositions that boaters have no control over the use of such emulsifying additive may cause more problems than it solves.

 

I found no signs of water or bug at the bottom of my tank when I "Hoovered" it with an oil extractor the other week so it definitely gets rid of water.

Edited November 15, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[onionbargee]

I had diesel bug last year. Marine 16 sorted it and I now still use it as a preventative. Small investment - big potential saving.

I had it too, the preventative dose of Marine 16 costs peanuts, but cleaning your entire fuel system is a pain in the arse, and you may have to right off a whole tank of fuel too. Now the bug is here, and you don't know where , biocide is a must at all times for me.

[Phil Ambrose]

I use Startron and try to keep my tank as full as possible through the Winter, touch wood I've never had a "Bug" problem.

 

Phil

[Smelly]

I had diesel bug last year. Marine 16 sorted it and I now still use it as a preventative. Small investment - big potential saving.

 

The same bottle sorted mine a 4 year old installation

[Odana]

The same bottle sorted mine a 4 year old installation

 

It was obviously an excellent bottle, sir!

[Proper Job]

It was obviously an excellent bottle, sir!