fuel sediment trap

[Shipleymanx]

Hi, As the fuel tanks on NB's can suffer from sediment, do NB's have sediment traps fitted, ie the glass bowl type. If not are they easy to fit.

[Ex- Member]

Hi, As the fuel tanks on NB's can suffer from sediment, do NB's have sediment traps fitted, ie the glass bowl type. If not are they easy to fit.

 

They're not allowed I recall, BSS

 

Glass can break causing leakage, or Glass can crack dueing fire exascerbating the problem. Even on a conventional filter you have to remove tthe plastic drain plug if it has one and replace it with a steel bolt & fibre washer.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Julynian

[John V]

They're not allowed I recall, BSS

 

Glass can break causing leakage, or Glass can crack dueing fire exascerbating the problem. Even on a conventional filter you have to remove tthe plastic drain plug if it has one and replace it with a steel bolt & fibre washer.

didn't ASAP do a metal replacement bowl for that type of filter?

[ditchcrawler]

didn't ASAP do a metal replacement bowl for that type of filter?

They do metal plugs to go in the bottom of filters in place of the plastic ones.

[nicknorman]

Hi, As the fuel tanks on NB's can suffer from sediment, do NB's have sediment traps fitted, ie the glass bowl type. If not are they easy to fit.

Yes, but no glass bowls. Metal bowls with metal drain plugs. They are definitely a very good idea and I would be a bit surprised if an engine had been installed without one. They trap not only sediment, but also water and (if unlucky) a certain amount of bug. It is cheaper to clean out the trap than to buy a new paper element filter, and a badly clogged filter can bypass, allowing dirt or water into the injection system which can do permanent damage.

[blackrose]

Hi, As the fuel tanks on NB's can suffer from sediment, do NB's have sediment traps fitted, ie the glass bowl type. If not are they easy to fit.

 

I changed my (expensive) Vetus agglomerator/water trap for a CAV/Delpi trap as it is much cheaper to change the filter when I service my engine. This type of trap has a filter element above the bowl and as others have said, the bowl must be metal rather than glass and the drain screw must be metal too.

 

I had to put a new piece of copper pipe in from the fuel tap to the trap, but it was all fairly easy to fit. It will need some sort of mounting bracket - mine is just a short piece of angle iron with a couple of holes for the mounting bolts that was welded to the counter by the builder for the original Vetus trap. Fortunately the new trap also fitted onto that bracket. If the trap is mounted to the hull then I think it's usual to have copper or other metal pipe from the tank to the trap and then flexible fuel hose (of the correct spec) from the trap to the engine.

 

Edited October 6, 2012 by blackrose

[rjasmith]

I've also gone for the CAV units but decided to go for the separate sedimenter and filter housings (the same range as in blackrose's photo).

 

It's fairly easy to get these from places other than chandlers as they are identical to the units fitted to many models of Landrover. The prices for the Landrover ones can be a lot less than from chandlers but you just need to make sure they come with the metal rather than glass/plastic bottom bowl as has already been said.

 

Also the drain and bleed bolts need to have metallic screws and either copper or fibre washers for BSS compliance. A place I found that seemed quite reasonable is a little outfit called SSL Diesel Parts here (in the Outer Hebrides believe it or not but despite this the stuff seems to take no time at all to reach me in Sussex!). (No connection with them etc BTW).

 

Richard

[ditchcrawler]

Just to add that Delphi filters are not constructed the same as some patten part equivalents.

Edit as I have found the last posting I did on this with photos.

Edited October 6, 2012 by ditchcrawler

[Arthur Brown]

You can use any suitable fuel filter OUTSIDE the engine room. It's being inside the engine room that brings up the no glass or plastic rule from BSS.

[David Schweizer]

Yes, but no glass bowls. Metal bowls with metal drain plugs. They are definitely a very good idea and I would be a bit surprised if an engine had been installed without one. They trap not only sediment, but also water and (if unlucky) a certain amount of bug. It is cheaper to clean out the trap than to buy a new paper element filter, and a badly clogged filter can bypass, allowing dirt or water into the injection system which can do permanent damage.

Be prepared to be surprised. There is no water trap, sediment trap, or drain plug in the fuel filter on our boat. In fifteen years I have never had any sediment or water in the filter, which I change about every 500 hours.

[Smelly]

Don't forget that the expensive vetus water traps will hold inexpensive generic filters... Champion L111 is a start.

[Guest]

Don't forget that the expensive vetus water traps will hold inexpensive generic filters... Champion L111 is a start.

Tis true, I have used a L111 on the Vetus base. Filtermania do a quality replacement which is significantly cheaper, and I would highly recommend them for all Vetus replacement filters. They appear to be Baldwin filters, which are top quality.

[blackrose]

Be prepared to be surprised. There is no water trap, sediment trap, or drain plug in the fuel filter on our boat. In fifteen years I have never had any sediment or water in the filter, which I change about every 500 hours.

 

What sort of filter do you have? I'd have to cut mine open and dismantle the paper element to see if there was any sediment stuck inside. Also, without a water trap I'd have thought a fuel filter alone wouldn't stop any water passing straight through to the injectors, so that may explain why you've never seen any.

 

I've certainly found sediment and water in my trap.

 

Don't forget that the expensive vetus water traps will hold inexpensive generic filters...

 

Yes, I was quoted about 45 quid last time I went to change mine! So instead I spent about the same amount changing the whole thing for the CAV/Delphi unit and new elements cost about a fiver.

Edited October 7, 2012 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

What sort of filter do you have? I'd have to cut mine open and dismantle the paper element to see if there was any sediment stuck inside. Also, without a water trap I'd have thought a fuel filter alone wouldn't stop any water passing straight through to the injectors, so that may explain why you've never seen any.

 

I've certainly found sediment and water in my trap.

 

 

 

Yes, I was quoted about 45 quid last time I went to change mine! So instead I spent about the same amount changing the whole thing for the CAV/Delphi unit and new elements cost about a fiver.

We have a standard top feed and take off CAV fuel filter fitted to our BMC 1.5, and I buy Crosland 522 elements from the local Agricultural Merchants for a couple of quid. I take the view that if in thirty years the original single filter setup has worked without fail, why change it?

 

I have long maintained the view that just because popular myth suggests that you need all that stuff, there is often no real evidence that lots of additional equipment will actually make any difference (except to my pocket). It is for the same reason that we still do not have an accumultator in the water supply system.

 

I may be proved horribly wrong one day, but in the meantime I will continue to maintain the "keep it simple" system.

 

Edited to Ammend:- They actually cost me £2.70 each, it is the oil filter elements that cost £2.

Edited October 7, 2012 by David Schweizer

[bizzard]

I too on both the narrowboats that i've owned only have the wee engines own micr-filter £2 a go, plus the fuel lift pumps small gauze filter and sediment chamber and never any sign of water when i change the filter and only ever the tiniest bit of sediment caught by the lift pumps filter. However i do use the basic diesel injection system cleaner additive and almost always buy my fuel in jerry cans and double filter it with my special home made funnel which i once described in a wheeze.

David i don't think Crosland filters are still going, possibly absorbed by Fram. Fram are excellent filters, probably the largest filter manufacturer in the world and have been going for donkeys years and will cross reference with virtually all other filters.

[Smelly]

 

 

Yes, I was quoted about 45 quid last time I went to change mine! So instead I spent about the same amount changing the whole thing for the CAV/Delphi unit and new elements cost about a fiver.

 

You've missed the point. The Vetus water trap on my Isuzu engine in my Scouse boat will accept generic filters rather than changing the filter head completely; the new elements do, indeed cost about a fiver...

[David Schweizer]

I too on both the narrowboats that i've owned only have the wee engines own micr-filter £2 a go, plus the fuel lift pumps small gauze filter and sediment chamber and never any sign of water when i change the filter and only ever the tiniest bit of sediment caught by the lift pumps filter. However i do use the basic diesel injection system cleaner additive and almost always buy my fuel in jerry cans and double filter it with my special home made funnel which i once described in a wheeze.

David i don't think Crosland filters are still going, possibly absorbed by Fram. Fram are excellent filters, probably the largest filter manufacturer in the world and have been going for donkeys years and will cross reference with virtually all other filters.

Yes you are correct, but there are still thousands of them out there, some being offered an knock down prices to clear. I still have enough in stock to last me at least five years.

Edited October 7, 2012 by David Schweizer

[bizzard]

Yes you are correct, but there are still thousands of them out there, some being offered an knock down prices to clear. I still have enough in stock to last me at least five years.

That's good David, always be prepared, were you a boy scout by any chance?

[colin stone]

Racor Turbine 500MA - glass bowl and metal outer bowl is BSS compliant.

 

www.asap-supplies.com/search/results/Parker-Racor-500MA-Diesel-Fuel-Filter-30

[blackrose]

We have a standard top feed and take off CAV fuel filter fitted to our BMC 1.5, and I buy Crosland 522 elements from the local Agricultural Merchants for a couple of quid. I take the view that if in thirty years the original single filter setup has worked without fail, why change it?

 

I wasn't suggesting you change it. If you are happy with your current setup then carry on by all means.

 

I have long maintained the view that just because popular myth suggests that you need all that stuff, there is often no real evidence that lots of additional equipment will actually make any difference (except to my pocket). It is for the same reason that we still do not have an accumultator in the water supply system.

 

That's where I disagree. There's plenty of evidence to show that certain additional equipment works. I don't know how you managed to get onto the topic of accumulators, but since you did, without my accumulator the domestic water flow out of the taps is jerky and erratic. With the accumulator it's perfect.

 

You've missed the point. The Vetus water trap on my Isuzu engine in my Scouse boat will accept generic filters rather than changing the filter head completely; the new elements do, indeed cost about a fiver...

 

Yes, I obviously read what I wanted to read!

 

However, I was told by two seperate sources (one of whom is a supplier and a regular on this forum), that the generic elements for the Vetus trap are of poor quality. He advised me to change it for the CAV/Delpi trap and even gave me the contact details for a different non-boaty supplier who had them in stock.

Edited October 7, 2012 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

That's where I disagree. There's plenty of evidence to show that certain additional equipment works. I don't know how you managed to get onto the topic of accumulators, but since you did, without my accumulator the domestic water flow out of the taps is jerky and erratic. With the accumulator it's perfect.

 

I mentioned accumulators because they are one of the pieces of equipment which many people insist will improve things, along with bow thrusters, charge splitting diodes, SmartGuages etc. but I feel no need for them. If fitting an accumulator has improved your water supply, that is good, but the water supply on our boat is not noticeably "jerky or erratic" so why do I need one?

 

However, I am not suggesting that additional equipment does not work, and that none should be fitted, I am merely questioning the need for some of it. We have an Alternator regulator fitted which certainly works and enables the batteries to re-charge in far less time than before it was fitted, but I would not suggest that everyone else should have one, particularly if they have a modern engine with a battery sensed alternator already fitted. It is a question of how appropriate it is and whether it will make any significant difference.

[Guest]

 

 

However, I was told by two seperate sources (one of whom is a supplier and a regular on this forum), that the generic elements for the Vetus trap are of poor quality. He advised me to change it for the CAV/Delpi trap and even gave me the contact details for a different non-boaty supplier who had them in stock.

The micron rating that Vetus gave me was very unimpressive. The Baldwin filters are a better rating (and half the price.)

 

I mentioned accumulators because they are one of the pieces of equipment which many people insist will improve things, along with bow thrusters, charge splitting diodes, SmartGuages etc. but I feel no need for them. If fitting an accumulator has improved your water supply, that is good, but the water supply on our boat is not noticeably "jerky or erratic" so why do I need one?

 

However, I am not suggesting that additional equipment does not work, and that none should be fitted, I am merely questioning the need for some of it. We have an Alternator regulator fitted which certainly works and enables the batteries to re-charge in far less time than before it was fitted, but I would not suggest that everyone else should have one, particularly if they have a modern engine with a battery sensed alternator already fitted. It is a question of how appropriate it is and whether it will make any significant difference.

Must admit I avoid gadgets where possible. I bought a battery boiler when the boat was new, and never fitted it (no need.) I sold it on fleabay.

[John V]

 

 

 

Must admit I avoid gadgets where possible.

:clapping:

 

simple is beautiful

[blackrose]

I mentioned accumulators because they are one of the pieces of equipment which many people insist will improve things, along with bow thrusters, charge splitting diodes, SmartGuages etc. but I feel no need for them. If fitting an accumulator has improved your water supply, that is good, but the water supply on our boat is not noticeably "jerky or erratic" so why do I need one?

I didn't say you needed one, I said I needed one.

 

However, I am not suggesting that additional equipment does not work, and that none should be fitted, I am merely questioning the need for some of it. We have an Alternator regulator fitted which certainly works and enables the batteries to re-charge in far less time than before it was fitted, but I would not suggest that everyone else should have one, particularly if they have a modern engine with a battery sensed alternator already fitted. It is a question of how appropriate it is and whether it will make any significant difference.

 

Yes, fair enough, I agree.

 

The micron rating that Vetus gave me was very unimpressive. The Baldwin filters are a better rating (and half the price.)

 

So 20 odd quid each rather than 45?

 

I think I'd rather have a 5 pound Delphi element.

 

Must admit I avoid gadgets where possible.

 

:clapping:

 

simple is beautiful

 

When you think about it a water trap is a very simple gadget. We all know that diesel floats on water and the water trap uses that phenomenon to separate any water from the fuel before it can go on to contaminate the fuel filter. If you look at any internal combustion engine in detail (even vintage engines), you'll find some quite complex design features. Compared to some of that complexity a water trap seems like a very simple and functional gadget to me.

Edited October 8, 2012 by blackrose