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Fire ext in eng bay?

talisman
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talisman Collaborator

talisman

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Just had a request to fit a fire ext in the engine bay of the boat i am working on. Apparently it was only removed due to a replacement batt tray installation.In my opinion its pointless and i intend to explain to the owner my simple and logical reasoning. Its a std semi trad narrow boat by the way. Any thoughts on this?

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talisman Collaborator

talisman

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Well whats the point? It certainly wont help if a fire breaks out in the engine compartment.The boat safety certificate dosent require an ext in the engine compartment. The min and max temperatures stated on the ext are -20 to +60.On a hot sunny day if you are cruising ,i can imagine the temp in the engine compartment getting close to the max.The ext gets covered in oil,grease and diesel fumes,hardly ideal conditions. Common sense would indicate if you are worried fit an ext close to the exterior of the engine but not actually in the compartment.

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Bobbybass Experienced

Bobbybass

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Well whats the point? It certainly wont help if a fire breaks out in the engine compartment.The boat safety certificate dosent require an ext in the engine compartment. The min and max temperatures stated on the ext are -20 to +60.On a hot sunny day if you are cruising ,i can imagine the temp in the engine compartment getting close to the max.The ext gets covered in oil,grease and diesel fumes,hardly ideal conditions. Common sense would indicate if you are worried fit an ext close to the exterior of the engine but not actually in the compartment.

A mate of mine had a fire on his ocean going boat (slightly larger engine than a NB !! )..and blasted it with his powder extinguisher

His engine...was subsequently ruined ...as it had been running at the time...and drew in the powder/gas or whatever.His insurer refused payment as the extinguisher was 'not fit for its intended purpose !!'.

the case...is rumbling on.

Wonder if this could happen with a narrowboat ?

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mrsmelly Veteran II

mrsmellyDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

Just had a request to fit a fire ext in the engine bay of the boat i am working on. Apparently it was only removed due to a replacement batt tray installation.In my opinion its pointless and i intend to explain to the owner my simple and logical reasoning. Its a std semi trad narrow boat by the way. Any thoughts on this?

 

Hi

Dare I say what kind of boat maintenance man are you ? A fire ext in the eng compartment is a very sound idea. Your problem is lack of knowledge, we all suffer from that on occasion. You need a co2 ext NOT dry powder etc. We have co2 saturation capability on our boats at work and I have had it on a previous narrowboat. It needs fitting with an external trigger so the boards on the narrowboat need not be lifted. The co2 displaces the oxygen and therefore starves the fire which will be extinguished. So as not to reignite do not lift the boards until any fire has cooled. A remote fuel shut off should also be fitted outside of the engine compt.

 

Tim

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talisman Collaborator

talisman

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Did he request a portable hand held fire extinguisher or a plumbed in, automatic type system?

Its a small handheld powder ext, same as used inside boats. As i stated it used to be fitted but was removed because of some work in the engine bay.

 

Hi

Dare I say what kind of boat maintenance man are you ? A fire ext in the eng compartment is a very sound idea. Your problem is lack of knowledge, we all suffer from that on occasion. You need a co2 ext NOT dry powder etc. We have co2 saturation capability on our boats at work and I have had it on a previous narrowboat. It needs fitting with an external trigger so the boards on the narrowboat need not be lifted. The co2 displaces the oxygen and therefore starves the fire which will be extinguished. So as not to reignite do not lift the boards until any fire has cooled. A remote fuel shut off should also be fitted outside of the engine compt.

 

Tim

Yes a good system is fine. This guy wants me to fit an old powder ext simply because it was there originally. I was involved in the fire industry for 30 years,so have more than a little knowledge.

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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

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I think you're more/less right to say, its a daft position to MOUNT one. Somewhere NEAR the engine bay covers, but outside of the engine bay, would be useful because if the worst happens, you don't want to have to lift the cover since it would feed oxygen to the fire and it may 'flare up'. I'd say you're doing the right thing, ie decline to fit it and persuade him to have one in a more sensible position. It would be unfair to simply shrug your shoulders, fit it, then take his money.

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mrsmelly Veteran II

mrsmellyDonate to Canal World

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Its a small handheld powder ext, same as used inside boats. As i stated it used to be fitted but was removed because of some work in the engine bay.

 

 

Yes a good system is fine. This guy wants me to fit an old powder ext simply because it was there originally. I was involved in the fire industry for 30 years,so have more than a little knowledge.

 

Ahh

 

Perhaps your opening post lacked a little information then :cheers: I would simply advise him to fit the co2 version, as you say the powder type is not suitable. :cheers:

 

Tim

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Arthur Brown Influencer

Arthur Brown

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If it's a small wall mount unit and it makes the client happy why not? It's hardly a big or expensive job. Whether it's likely to be effectively used in the case of a fire -who knows.

 

Dry powder may be an effective knock down but it still needs something to cool the firesite, and it is MESSY and as above can cause serious damage.

AFFF is a good media for the diesel environment as it foams enough to cover fuel and as there is water in the mix it cools well too -may ruin the electrical machines (alternator etc)

CO2 in a closed engine room will work well if done well but you need lots of it.

 

Now if the client wants a big halon discharge system then the media is controlled by so many protocols now that something else would be easier!

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mrsmelly Veteran II

mrsmellyDonate to Canal World

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I would suggest that unless that is an "extra" extinguisher then if you do fit it it will not comply with the BSS requirements with respect to the positioning of extinguishers as it will be under the covers.

 

Thats a good point. I suspect that it would always be an extra extinguisher though. I dont take any notice of the MINIMUM legal bss requirements as safety is paramount. Exts, fire blankets,life jackets, vhf radios etc cost peanuts and my boat has way more than required. My fire exts are much much bigger than the piddly ones that meet the bss, I also have 2 fire blankets etc etc. It does suprise me that more boats dont have co2 ets in the engine compartment as they certainly make sense. I dont have one on this boat though as yet :wacko:

 

Tim

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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

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Thats a good point. I suspect that it would always be an extra extinguisher though. I dont take any notice of the MINIMUM legal bss requirements as safety is paramount. Exts, fire blankets,life jackets, vhf radios etc cost peanuts and my boat has way more than required. My fire exts are much much bigger than the piddly ones that meet the bss, I also have 2 fire blankets etc etc. It does suprise me that more boats dont have co2 ets in the engine compartment as they certainly make sense. I dont have one on this boat though as yet :wacko:

 

Tim

 

I think its more to do with the fact that you can normally get to the bank and get off a narrowboat on a canal, much quicker than other boating eg coastal, offshore. True, an engine fire is still a serious issue and could lose the boat, but life would not be at risk in the same way as other types of boating. And I believe they cost quite a bit (of course, that's a matter of opinion, on what "quite a bit" is for you!).

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Speedwheel Influencer

Speedwheel

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Just had a request to fit a fire ext in the engine bay of the boat i am working on. Apparently it was only removed due to a replacement batt tray installation.In my opinion its pointless and i intend to explain to the owner my simple and logical reasoning. Its a std semi trad narrow boat by the way. Any thoughts on this?

 

If that is what the owner then why not just do it. They are the ones paying the bill.

 

I would suggest that unless that is an "extra" extinguisher then if you do fit it it will not comply with the BSS requirements with respect to the positioning of extinguishers as it will be under the covers.

 

As long as it's location is clearly marked, preferably with an approved sign, then it shouldn't be an issue.

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Grace and Favour Veteran II

Grace and Favour

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I think its more to do with the fact that you can normally get to the bank and get off a narrowboat on a canal, much quicker than other boating eg coastal, offshore. True, an engine fire is still a serious issue and could lose the boat, but life would not be at risk in the same way as other types of boating. And I believe they cost quite a bit (of course, that's a matter of opinion, on what "quite a bit" is for you!).

 

As a guide to some of the cheaper CO2 extinguishers - - - one could do the Google Shuffle. . . .

 

as here

 

Sure, a £30+ 2Kg CO2 extinguisher is dearer than the average cheapest foam extinguisher from Lidl - - - - but at £30 - - it's not a kings ransom, and if it controls an engine fire - - - I'd call that cheap

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Ally Influencer

Ally

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If the customer wants an extinguisher fitted...and I do believe it is good practise, as there is far more than just an engine in a semi's engine hole usually...batteries & some electrics etc...then either an automatic system should be provided, or an extinguisher say mounted on the inside of the stern doors, with a 'fire hole' through which it can be released, cut into the rear cabin bulkhead, through into the engine hole (high up). Either way no boards need to be lifted, and a fire can be tackled from inside the cabin if required, too.

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Paul C Veteran II

Paul C

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As a guide to some of the cheaper CO2 extinguishers - - - one could do the Google Shuffle. . . .

 

as here

 

Sure, a £30+ 2Kg CO2 extinguisher is dearer than the average cheapest foam extinguisher from Lidl - - - - but at £30 - - it's not a kings ransom, and if it controls an engine fire - - - I'd call that cheap

 

Sorry I think we mean different things. I meant the automatic systems where the fire extinguisher is permanently plumbed in, and normally automatically operating ie senses a fire and, ummm, fires.

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churchward Veteran II

churchward

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Just had a request to fit a fire ext in the engine bay of the boat i am working on. Apparently it was only removed due to a replacement batt tray installation.In my opinion its pointless and i intend to explain to the owner my simple and logical reasoning. Its a std semi trad narrow boat by the way. Any thoughts on this?

I wouldn't fit an extinguisher in the engine bay itself as it may become impossible to get at if there was a fire there.

 

However, it is not a bad idea to have one close by. I have a small CO2 extingusher for any engine bay fires. I think they are likely to be the most effective in that circumstance and will cause the least mess and damage if used to the engine and the surrounds compared to a powder one. It can't contribute to the BSS but that is for the cabin area anyway.

 

I would also fit a CO2 unit in a trad mid engine compartment if I had one.

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Guest

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A good old fashioned CO2 extinguisher is good to keep close to the engine for two reasons:

 

1) To fight a fire (though it is widely believed that an extinguisher's purpose is to buy you enough time to escape, and not to fight a fire.)

2) To stop a runaway diesel engine.

 

I have seen a few boats where a purpose made orifice is cut in the engine board to locate an extinguisher externally without the need to lift the boards. I would favour this method.

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RLWP Veteran II

RLWP

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I would think the last thing you want to do with an engine bay fire is yank the deck boards up to play with a fire extinguisher

 

Likewise that underbonnet fire extinguisher on a car.

 

Opening a car bonnet allows air in and immediately releases the fire into the face of the bonnet opener - I can see deck boards doing the same.

 

If it is on fire, get off

 

Richard

Edited by RLWP
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