Let The Silly Season Begin

[RichardH]

Most of our guests would be genuinely upset if they thought they had upset someone with their "selfish behaviour"

 

Perhaps those criticising this should take a moment to reflect on what information has to be shared with a novice guest in the time you have their attention....

 

The list is quite long.

 

Yes, it is in the Boaters Handbook which we provide on the boat and we certainly wouldn't condone mooring on a water point, speeding past someone, pinching a lock etc but when you consider the things they have to learn just to basically navigate the canals for perhaps the first time cut them some slack.

 

And then for another moment of reflection think back to your first hire boat experience and what you did incorrectly which may have upset someone.....

[Ange]

Most of our guests would be genuinely upset if they thought they had upset someone with their "selfish behaviour"

 

Perhaps those criticising this should take a moment to reflect on what information has to be shared with a novice guest in the time you have their attention....

 

The list is quite long.

 

Yes, it is in the Boaters Handbook which we provide on the boat and we certainly wouldn't condone mooring on a water point, speeding past someone, pinching a lock etc but when you consider the things they have to learn just to basically navigate the canals for perhaps the first time cut them some slack.

 

And then for another moment of reflection think back to your first hire boat experience and what you did incorrectly which may have upset someone.....

 

Absolutely agree - have a greenie Mr H

 

I cringe when I remember some of the clangers we inadvertently dropped on our first hire holiday!

[bizzard]

And you've all forgotten the self pump out brigade who do this with their own often dodgy equipment,often despite a pay machine being presant,and spending ages outside the sanny playing around with pipes that won't suck and generally making a mess everywhere,and then contaminating the canal or river by rinsing the pump and tubing through afterwards.Whilst other people in boats wait patiently,''some impatiently'' for this messy performance to conclude,so's to take their turn to take on water ect.

[Doorman]

but can you confirm that you saw the 'offending' boat moor up and was the space available when it did.

 

 

Apologies, my initial reply wasn't that clear!

 

We are moored up approximately 100 feet from the water point and noticed the hire boat moor up (in a fashion), believing that the crew were stopping to fill their water tank. It was only when the boat that you see in the backgound -first photo-, moored in front of us and was absolutely ecstatic about having to manoeuvre his boat to access the water point, did I realise what had transpired.

 

It was also only when I joined to help them bow haul their boat towards the water point, did I eventually pursuade the Brummie boater not to cut loose the hire boat and let it drift away towards lock 14, such was his enthusiasm towards the considerate hire boaters!

 

Victor

Edited May 24, 2012 by Doorman

[Doorman]

Most of our guests would be genuinely upset if they thought they had upset someone with their "selfish behaviour"

 

Perhaps those criticising this should take a moment to reflect on what information has to be shared with a novice guest in the time you have their attention....

 

The list is quite long.

 

Yes, it is in the Boaters Handbook which we provide on the boat and we certainly wouldn't condone mooring on a water point, speeding past someone, pinching a lock etc but when you consider the things they have to learn just to basically navigate the canals for perhaps the first time cut them some slack.

 

And then for another moment of reflection think back to your first hire boat experience and what you did incorrectly which may have upset someone.....

 

 

Perhaps those whom hire boats out to novices should learn from their own shortcomings.

 

It has been suggested on previous threads that once a hire company secure a deposit from their customers, then this is the time to forward a copy of the Boater's Handbook and not as it seems, at the point of handover. By taking this simple precaution, along with issueing an accompanying instructional DVD, would this not allow your customers more time to absorb not only the nicities of navigating the system, but also the perils that can be experienced through insufficient advice?

 

On reflection, our first hire boat experience highlighted exactly what I describe in the paragraph above. We enquired with the hire depot about hiring a boat for a week, agreed a deposit payment and then only when we arrived at the depot, did we receive a five minute viewing of a worn video tape showing the complexities of lock handling.

 

From there, the hire operator accompanied us on the boat for about 10 minutes, instructing us how to operate the Eberspcher heater, start the engine and negotiate a winding hole, before finally jumping off the boat at the next bridge hole and merrily sending us on our way, oblivious to the fact that in front of us were three tunnels, none of which had we been advised of!

 

Beyond this comprehensive instruction, we managed to navigate through numerous locks, one of which was Wardle lock on the Middlewich Arm of the Shropshire Union Canal, where the late Maureen Shaw - whom inhabited the adjacent lock cottage - afforded us detailed advice about locks and their dangers. Only then, did we feel competent and adequately informed about how to negotiate the locks on this particular stretch of water.

 

During this very enjoyable initiation to the water ways and the local canal system, not once did we encounter any boaters whom were angered by our actions. The reason being was that although we had received totally insufficient instruction from the hire company, we managed to use what is so very rare these days, common sense!

Edited May 24, 2012 by Doorman

[carlt]

I cringe when I remember some of the clangers we inadvertently dropped on our first hire holiday!

SLOW DOWN!!

[Smelly]

How much water did Dave Mayall decide a boat was allowed?

 

Don't worry, I've got my own, private, paid for tap for the moment... My washing machine hasn't seen so much action for years

[Cheshire cat]

I have watched instruction take placce at Norbury. It's all about the boat. Then a "helper" helps the crew set off from the wharf and promptly jumps off at the first bridge hole which is all of fifty yards from the starting point.

 

I don't blame the hirers for their ignorance. They have to learn quickly. I was chastised last summer for laughing at another Norbury crew attempting to moor on pins opposite the Shroppie Fly. The boat was see-sawing backwards and forwards while they were banging the pins in and they didn't have any clue how to attach the ropes to the pins. The boat was safe enough because it wsn't about to go anywhere but on an open stretch the pins would have been pulled out by the first boat going past.

[Doorman]

Hey Vic,

 

isn't that the very spot that 2 boats pitched up virtually all winter hogging the visitor moorings ignoring the 14 day rule?

 

 

Nooooooo,

 

Those two plonkers misguidingly believed that by using the Sol calender system as opposed to the Gregorian alternative, allowed them to remain unchecked for over 14 days in any month. By placing a copy of the Sol calender in the windows of their respective boats, this also duped the BW Enforcement officer into thinking she was on holiday, when in fact, she should have been at work chasing these hogs away!

 

I believe that this skullduggery is also widely used in abundance throughout the southern waters of the canal system too. Allegedly!

Edited May 24, 2012 by Doorman

[cotswoldsman]

Why is it that some boaters are so concerned about what other boaters do? maybe some of you need to get a life.............I am in Gargrave at present (moorings places at a premium) 1 boat (non hire boat) is moored in the Winding Hole and one boat (hire boat) is moored on the Water Point, does it effect me NO. Should I need to turn I would simply ask the boater politely to move while i turn. Should I need water I will simply breast up on the boat on the water point. What I expect is that within the next couple of hours both boats will move not having harmed anyone except those boaters that just feel the need to moan and complain!!!

[magpie patrick]

Perhaps those whom hire boats out to novices should learn from their own shortcomings.

 

It has been suggested on previous threads that once a hire company secure a deposit from their customers, then this is the time to forward a copy of the Boater's Handbook and not as it seems, at the point of handover. By taking this simple precaution, along with issueing an accompanying instructional DVD, would this not allow your customers more time to absorb not only the nicities of navigating the system, but also the perils that can be experienced through insufficient advice?

 

My we are in a grump aren't we. Every time I've hired a boat from a company I haven't hired from before, the boaters handbook has been sent out when the booking was secured, not on the day we took over. I will admit though that I have seen some dreadful handovers. Black Prince, Stoke Prior spring to mind, but it was ten years ago.

 

 

Yes, it is in the Boaters Handbook which we provide on the boat and we certainly wouldn't condone mooring on a water point, speeding past someone, pinching a lock etc but when you consider the things they have to learn just to basically navigate the canals for perhaps the first time cut them some slack.

 

 

Obviously I know how to work a lock etc, I have almost literally been cruising since I was born (but only for two or three weeks a year). I steered a 45 foot narrow boat down the Aire and Calder at the age of 8.

 

But taking on Juno, wheel steering outboard engine etc. made me realise how someone who has never steered a narrow boat before must feel. If you'll pardon the pun, out of their depth...

[RichardH]

Perhaps those whom hire boats out to novices should learn from their own shortcomings.

 

It has been suggested on previous threads that once a hire company secure a deposit from their customers, then this is the time to forward a copy of the Boater's Handbook and not as it seems, at the point of handover. By taking this simple precaution, along with issueing an accompanying instructional DVD, would this not allow your customers more time to absorb not only the nicities of navigating the system, but also the perils that can be experienced through insufficient advice?

 

 

I don't understand your first comment - perhaps you could expand.

 

We do send out the handbook and have one on the boat as per Hire Boat Handover guidelines.

[Paul C]

I don't understand your first comment - perhaps you could expand.

 

We do send out the handbook and have one on the boat as per Hire Boat Handover guidelines.

 

I don't think it was aimed at you, from your posts you seem to be one of the better hire firms when it comes to a thorough handover. But, hire handovers aren't all the same high quality and some leave a lot to be desired! If its a busy time and lots of boats are going out, I can't see anyone getting more than about 15-20 mins of 1-1 time. And if the customer has previous experience, the handover could be as short as 5 minutes, just showing the boat systems and not really spending any on navigation/etiquette.

 

The boat handbook is good but you can't assume all hirers will read, understand and memorise the entire document.

[jelunga]

Absolutely agree - have a greenie Mr H

 

I cringe when I remember some of the clangers we inadvertently dropped on our first hire holiday!

I know what you mean. We managed to accidentally empty Birmingham by not checking the bottom paddles were properly closed before filling the lock.

But we learnt on the job. There were no locks for miles from wgere we hired from.

[Graham Davis]

The boat handbook is good but you can't assume all hirers will read, understand and memorise the entire document.

 

 

Exactly! (have a greenie)

What does the OP expect? Every hirer has to sit an exam before they are let loose?

 

You can send out all sorts of things, then talk to them until you are blue in the face, but it doesn't mean that they

a/ have taken any of it in, and

b/ then impliment it

[Smelly]

Why is it that some boaters are so concerned about what other boaters do? maybe some of you need to get a life.............

 

When I was living on an unwieldy converted butty on the western end of the L&L; needing to wind at Red Lion when I did my monthly diesel run, finding two boats moored in the winding hole, against the inevitable wind blowing straight off the Irish Sea then yes... I allowed myself some concerns.

 

It was their paintwork and after peremptory worries, on one occasion, I satisfied myself that it was their fault too!

 

We cannot anticipate what we might obstruct; hence it is good practice to not be an obstruction...

[Ange]

I know what you mean. We managed to accidentally empty Birmingham by not checking the bottom paddles were properly closed before filling the lock.

But we learnt on the job. There were no locks for miles from wgere we hired from.

 

My biggest hire boat shame, which I've not admitted to on the forum before, was when we hired out of Whitchurch to do the Llangollen. Approaching the Montgomery junction I decided it'd be a great idea to nip down there and back for an explore. Yep, you're all cringing in anticipation of what happened next. Having no idea that any locks had restrictions I didn't read the notes in Nicholsons that told us about the restricted opening hours of the locks, even more embarrassing I somehow failed to notice the great big sign that spells them out. Moored our big yellow Viking Afloat boat on the lock landing and enthusiastically wound up the paddles to fill (or empty - I can't remember whether they're uphill or down now). The lock keeper immediately appeared from his cottage, waving his arms and remonstrating furiously.

 

Exit stage left one very embarrassed hire crew, lesson learned big time.

 

It still makes me cringe when I remember it

[Janet S]

Speaking as a long term hirer and now working for a boat company conducting handovers myself, I have to say that the service you get can vary considerably. As hirers, we've had handovers which have lasted a good hour or two and have included hands on lock tuition and others where we've simply been sent on our way after a cursory walk through of the boat and some very basic guidance. Thankfully we are experienced now and all we need is a brief tour of the boat before we can get on our way, but I well remember our first time, hiring from Wyvern Shipping when there was simply SO much to learn and take in!

 

Our hirers are sent a copy of the Boaters Handbook when booking, and we DO encourage them to read it! We are in the very fortunate position of being only a half hour's cruise away from a flight of three locks...typically our handover for a novice hirer would include approx half an hour or so at the base, going through the workings of the boat and giving full instruction on operation, gas safety, boat safety (man overboard etc) and how to clear the weed hatch safely. There is then a cruise to the locks, during which time they are taught how to steer the boat, how to recover from grounding (don't panic!!!), canal etiquette...ie passing moored boats carefully, places to moor (and where not to!), how to wind the boat, how to operate the L&L swing bridges, and just the general do's and don'ts of narrowboating. During this time they are encouraged to ask as many questions as they like and we try to make sure that we cover everything we possibly can.

 

Upon reaching the locks they then get tuition in how to safely bring the boat into the bank to moor up, and are shown how to use mooring pins/bollards and hooks for secure overnight mooring as well as some useful knots and rope handling skills. An experienced crew will be taken through one lock, where we'll assess their skills and usually sign them off and let them get on their way....a more inexperienced crew will get a full and intensive tour of the locks and how they work, including all the safety aspects and how to work the boat through safely and efficiently. Sometimes they'll pick it up quickly and be fine after just one lock, but if I'm not 100% happy that they are confident and competent then I will make sure they work through at least two, if not all three locks before letting them go on their way.

 

With an experienced crew, a handover will last an hour or so...with novices it has been known to take considerably longer, and two or three hours isn't unusual. There is a lot to take in for a first timer, and yes, they will make mistakes along the way....that's boating for you!

 

Let's give them a break eh? I doubt there's any of us who haven't made simple mistakes!

 

Janet

[Tiny]

Maybe the hire company should be reminded to instruct their hirers not to moor at lock landings or water points . . . .

 

Do peeps think it would be a good idea if the forum members should , politely, send reminders to relevant hire companies when their customers transgress such fundamental waterway niceties?

 

I know one hire company near Audlem which gives detailed instruction before letting their hirers loose. Maybe this makes them late as they rarely make an effort to slow passing moored boats. Obviously if boaters want to ignore instructions in a blow you jack way they will. The two water points at Audlem are a case in point with boats often left blocking them. Mind you they are in B-silly places!

 

No it has not been slow for some time now unless you want it to be.

 

At points where a boat is filling and crew are inside/ not there I often check the tap is on full and if it isn't make it so. Often this fills the tank in no time.

[Chris Pink]

Breasting up to a boat on a water point is hardly the end of the world.

[Tiny]

Below Newcastle Road Lock in Stone.

Above Tardebigge with all mooring around the one for services rented out, Willington, Stone on the lock mooring half way up the 4 locks, Etruria, Fradley if the hire base is playing up using moorings by the point or if obne of the other local clowns are moored in mid-point - as theres no-where to wait, Fradley - services being down the T&M with no-where to wait but on the Coventry Water points if you wish to empty your elsan etc.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Tiny

[Tiny]

I have watched instruction take placce at Norbury. It's all about the boat. Then a "helper" helps the crew set off from the wharf and promptly jumps off at the first bridge hole which is all of fifty yards from the starting point.

 

I don't blame the hirers for their ignorance. They have to learn quickly. I was chastised last summer for laughing at another Norbury crew attempting to moor on pins opposite the Shroppie Fly. The boat was see-sawing backwards and forwards while they were banging the pins in and they didn't have any clue how to attach the ropes to the pins. The boat was safe enough because it wsn't about to go anywhere but on an open stretch the pins would have been pulled out by the first boat going past.

 

We had one Norbury boat pass so fast we phoned the yard. Next time seen the boat was slower. (It seems they had his mobile number).

In contrast we saw another of their boats crawling with the steerer enclosed behind his semi-trad doors barerly in control. As he passed one door opened to reveal his girl-friend laid along the seat servicing him with the old blow job. The door closed again as he continued on his way. Now you don't see that very often!

 

Perhaps those whom hire boats out to novices should learn from their own shortcomings.

 

It has been suggested on previous threads that once a hire company secure a deposit from their customers, then this is the time to forward a copy of the Boater's Handbook and not as it seems, at the point of handover. By taking this simple precaution, along with issueing an accompanying instructional DVD, would this not allow your customers more time to absorb not only the nicities of navigating the system, but also the perils that can be experienced through insufficient advice?

 

On reflection, our first hire boat experience highlighted exactly what I describe in the paragraph above. We enquired with the hire depot about hiring a boat for a week, agreed a deposit payment and then only when we arrived at the depot, did we receive a five minute viewing of a worn video tape showing the complexities of lock handling.

 

From there, the hire operator accompanied us on the boat for about 10 minutes, instructing us how to operate the Eberspcher heater, start the engine and negotiate a winding hole, before finally jumping off the boat at the next bridge hole and merrily sending us on our way, oblivious to the fact that in front of us were three tunnels, none of which had we been advised of!

 

Beyond this comprehensive instruction, we managed to navigate through numerous locks, one of which was Wardle lock on the Middlewich Arm of the Shropshire Union Canal, where the late Maureen Shaw - whom inhabited the adjacent lock cottage - afforded us detailed advice about locks and their dangers. Only then, did we feel competent and adequately informed about how to negotiate the locks on this particular stretch of water.

 

During this very enjoyable initiation to the water ways and the local canal system, not once did we encounter any boaters whom were angered by our actions. The reason being was that although we had received totally insufficient instruction from the hire company, we managed to use what is so very rare these days, common sense!

 

Having passed through Wardle since Maureen vacated the house we have already hads one arguement with a local private who demanded we do not do it the Maureen way as they knew it was rubbish compared to their right way. In this case their right way involved us slamming the paddles up and crashing about while when they did it it was with paddles mostly down. We awaited the thunderbolt but none came - shame.

[Tiny]

My biggest hire boat shame, which I've not admitted to on the forum before, was when we hired out of Whitchurch to do the Llangollen. Approaching the Montgomery junction I decided it'd be a great idea to nip down there and back for an explore. Yep, you're all cringing in anticipation of what happened next. Having no idea that any locks had restrictions I didn't read the notes in Nicholsons that told us about the restricted opening hours of the locks, even more embarrassing I somehow failed to notice the great big sign that spells them out. Moored our big yellow Viking Afloat boat on the lock landing and enthusiastically wound up the paddles to fill (or empty - I can't remember whether they're uphill or down now). The lock keeper immediately appeared from his cottage, waving his arms and remonstrating furiously.

 

Exit stage left one very embarrassed hire crew, lesson learned big time.

 

It still makes me cringe when I remember it

 

Why blush. Those locks are restricted to make sure BW don't 'waste' water on mere boats when it is contracted for sale via Hurleston to be used as drinking water. This means supplies to the Monty are rationed - a very unusual thing on the cut. So they make it difficult by making you book to go.

 

In fact the contract for 11 million to Hueleston was signed after BW did test runs in the 80s on how much extra water (over the 6 million then sent to Hurleston) could go down the Llangollen to feed a future restored for full use Monty. Back then. with the Monty not open the test runs sent all the water down to Hurlestonand into the reservoir. Crewe noted this and told BW they would contract to buy it. (Price a commercial secret.) BW said OK and sold the Monty water and hence the restrictions.

 

Back then they did use back-pumps but we understand when this was proposed for the Monty that, according to BW the eco lobby objected. This means no matter how much of the Monty is restored the restrictions will stay on.

 

To get round this a level canal from Adderley bottom to Hurleston, Frankton branch has been muted but don't hold your breath.

[Pete of Ebor]

My we are in a grump aren't we. Every time I've hired a boat from a company I haven't hired from before, the boaters handbook has been sent out when the booking was secured, not on the day we took over. I will admit though that I have seen some dreadful handovers. Black Prince, Stoke Prior spring to mind, but it was ten years ago.

 

 

 

The very first time we hired (21 years ago incidentally..) we were actually sent a copy of a video called The Waterways Guide For Boaters, narrated by Peter Davison no less.. We were simply advised that if we didn't bring the video tape back with us when collecting the boat, there would be a nominal charge made for it. I decided I'd rather keep it and pay the charge so I've still got it, though I have put it on DVD now...

[cheshire~rose]

 

 

 

We came across this boat moored in Chester. We were aware of the debate on here and had we happened to spot the crew we might have informed them about how famous they are

 

It seems we possibly had some good fortune in not having met them as we have been on the same route. We were chatting to some neighbours on our mooring last night and they volunteered information about their encounter with this crew and descibed them as "Holy Terrors"

I think it is likely to be safe to say that they will have returned to base over the weekend and so anyone encountering this boat from now on should be giving the crew a fair chance to prove themselves before tarring them with the same brush as the last crew.