Is central heating needed?

[canals are us?]

Would I need central heating on a 45-50ft narrowboat in the winter or would a stove heat it enough without radiators?

 

I would install http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwfireview.ashx would this be sufficient on it's own without radiators?

 

It would be a liveaboard.

 

What do you have?

 

I love a fire going and like the idea of low running costs. This stove costs more than cheaper alternatives at £715.

 

James

[Grace and Favour]

James,

 

You'll doubtless get loads of (possibly conflicting) advice about which stove to get . . . .

 

But to answer your question . . . we have a widebeam, and a 5Kw Squirrel stove.

(We also have diesel central heating - but have not turned it on in two years! - - the Stove keeps us plenty warm enough)

We too are liveaboards

 

I believe a key element of our heating is that the stove is positioned almost half-way down the boat (rather than just at one end)

It works for us!!!

 

(If you wanted radiators - you could always get a stove with a back boiler . . . . . )

[bottle]

James

 

similar to Grace and Favour, except ours is a narrowboat (60').

 

have Morso Squirell (1430), lit when winter starts and left to go out when it ends.

 

We have 'central heating' run from an Erbaspacher it has been used approximately for 15 hrs (runtime) in the last 2½ years and most of that was to ensure it still worked.

 

There are always those times Autumn, Spring when it is sometimes easier to flick the switch just to warm the cold evenings, mornings but as you can see they are rare, just put on another jumper works.

[blodger]

Use a Villager Heron Stove for boat warmth with a gas Aldi & radiators for back up and to heat the calorifier for hot water between engine running.

[Guest]

Would I need central heating on a 45-50ft narrowboat in the winter or would a stove heat it enough without radiators?

 

I would install http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwfireview.ashx would this be sufficient on it's own without radiators?

 

It would be a liveaboard.

 

What do you have?

 

I love a fire going and like the idea of low running costs. This stove costs more than cheaper alternatives at £715.

 

James

 

I think I'd be inclined to also have radiators - we do not live aboard but we use our boat in the winter. At the very least you have a backup if you run out of fuel for your stove and you and or the local coal boat is iced in somewhere.

 

If you did this for this reason you obviously would need to have a system separate from your stove such as a diesel heater, these do not take kindly to being unused for long periods so it would need firing up from time to time even in the height of summer.

[Québec]

We are 'every weekenders' on a 40' boat. 4kw stove in the front. Relatively open plan interior. Except for bathroom in centre of boat with narrow corridor through to sleeping area.

Rear section (i.e bedroom) can get very cold...especially in winter, even though front section is toasty warm.

If stove was in the centre it would obviously make difference. In winter we now use a curtain to keep the warm air in the lounge area, then open it just before we go to bed, and one of stands there like idiot using a newspaper to waft the warm air into the bedroom. It's a biit parky in the mornings though, at the back, even with the stove still going at the front. So we'd benefit from some sort of additional heating.

 

So...I reckon layout ( how easy is it for warm air to circulate around the whole interior?) and the position of stove are pretty critical.

[PaulJ]

Yep-unless you are a penguin.. I have a Little Wenlock with back boiler which heats three rads on my fifty footer.Keeps boat comfy all winter. Never had more than a single duvet on all winter and I never wear pyjamas :-)

[mrsmelly]

Would I need central heating on a 45-50ft narrowboat in the winter or would a stove heat it enough without radiators?

 

I would install http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/4kwfireview.ashx would this be sufficient on it's own without radiators?

 

It would be a liveaboard.

 

What do you have?

 

I love a fire going and like the idea of low running costs. This stove costs more than cheaper alternatives at £715.

 

James

 

Absolutely unecessary. Especialy as a liveabord you simply keep stove ticking over 24/7 all winter and on a boat that size you will need to open windows rather than be cold. The money save ( a considerable amount ) will keep you in Guinness for some time.

[canals are us?]

Hi thanks everyone

 

I think what I will do is fit a stove anyway and see how I get on. It would be the woodwarm, but my worry was my rear bedroom being cold.

I wouldn't install gas/diesel heating on the boat if it didn't have it already, just too expensive to install to use occasionaly. Thinking oil filled rad for occasional use.

 

My prefered stove location is not in the corner by the steps in the salon but the stove to be between the salon and galley kitchen. I would like an L shape kitchen with stove opposite.

 

I would like the stove freestanding on the corridor side of the boat that way if I want to add rads I can by gravity. Possibly leaving the bedroom door open and using an ecofan would be enough though?

Either way I dont mind plumbing in the 2 rads as I'm a plumber anyway!!

 

The villager heron is the older model of the puffin.

We have a villager berkley integral boiler stove only heating all of our house and it does the job although the glass can get dirty which I find irritating. I'm going to try woodwarm next. We have had 3 villagers and found they give reasonable performance but not totally airtight/controllable. The damper helps.

 

James

Edited April 9, 2012 by canals are us?

[Robbo]

Would I need central heating on a 45-50ft narrowboat in the winter or would a stove heat it enough without radiators?

 

If your not going to be on the boat for 8-10hrs a day like going to work then just a solid fuel stove is going to be hard. A diesel stove or a diesel boiler that can automatically start is very useful. However if your mooring has electric it will reduce the need.

 

Using a Solid fuel stove without radiators with a 50ft boat will be cold at one end if it's at the other, place it in the middle at least. However I would have install radiators using thermosyphon method.

[GUMPY]

We have three sources of heat and have been down to one.......

Main Cabin Charnwood country solid fuel stove ( replaced an old dutch diesel stove as it was cheaper on fuel)

MX60 running rads throughout the boat.

Sig marine diesel stove in the back.

Boat (60x11'6) is always toasty

The down to one heat source was over Easter 3 years ago when it snowed and we couldn't get spares, the old dutch cracked the mica window so was dangerous to use

Mikuni MX40 packed up which left us living in the back of the boat using the Sig for heat.

Always have a backup one source is never enough.

[mrsmelly]

If your not going to be on the boat for 8-10hrs a day like going to work then just a solid fuel stove is going to be hard. A diesel stove or a diesel boiler that can automatically start is very useful. However if your mooring has electric it will reduce the need.

 

Using a Solid fuel stove without radiators with a 50ft boat will be cold at one end if it's at the other, place it in the middle at least. However I would have install radiators using thermosyphon method.

 

Hi

 

I am smiling when I read this post but have to say " What a load of old bunkum " Ok Robbo you may have lived aboard more winters than I have ? and if so I find it even more strange. My last boat was a 70 foot n/b with a squirrell at the front which provided a very warm front cabin, a warm center cabin and a cooler but not cold by any means rear bedroom. A fifty foot n/b will be toast throughout providing there is no clunk clunk engine room in the middle of the boat of course. Also being out for 8/10 hours a day is simple you just leave the stove on tickover which for anything up to 28 hours with a squirrell is no problem. There is no need for any other form of heating as I have never had a solid fuel stove fail and fuel is the easiest to obtain of all the various forms of heating. Things to consider that make a huge difference however to the boat temperature are Insulation and Portholes.

[Robbo]

I am smiling when I read this post but have to say " What a load of old bunkum " Ok Robbo you may have lived aboard more winters than I have ? and if so I find it even more strange. My last boat was a 70 foot n/b with a squirrell at the front which provided a very warm front cabin, a warm center cabin and a cooler but not cold by any means rear bedroom. A fifty foot n/b will be toast throughout providing there is no clunk clunk engine room in the middle of the boat of course. Also being out for 8/10 hours a day is simple you just leave the stove on tickover which for anything up to 28 hours with a squirrell is no problem. There is no need for any other form of heating as I have never had a solid fuel stove fail and fuel is the easiest to obtain of all the various forms of heating. Things to consider that make a huge difference however to the boat temperature are Insulation and Portholes.

 

Radiators will spread the heat better especially if the stove is at one end, and it doesn't really cost any more to install or run (prob less to run).

 

A solid fuel stove is hard too keep going if your working and I don't really want to feed a stove in the morning then bugger off 1/2hr later to work then come back 10hrs later to a cold boat, then wait until the boat warms up, much better to get the diesel heater too come on, and then you have the choice of a real fire if you want. It is 2012 now, we have automated devices now..

[mrsmelly]

Radiators will spread the heat better especially if the stove is at one end, and it doesn't really cost any more to install or run (prob less to run).

 

A solid fuel stove is hard too keep going if your working and I don't really want to feed a stove in the morning then bugger off 1/2hr later to work then come back 10hrs later to a cold boat, then wait until the boat warms up, much better to get the diesel heater too come on, and then you have the choice of a real fire if you want. It is 2012 now, we have automated devices now..

 

ok Ok you win...I am biting. A solid fuel stove is simplicity itself to regulate and when you come home in the evening the boat will be nice and warm, Ive done it hundreds of times. Diesel heaters are messy and need lekctickery ( as you said ) and expensive and fuel is not as easy to obtain especialy for ccers. It is 2012 and we as a nation are going backwards at an alarming rate. Do a poll of liveaboards with say a minimum of 10 years of winters and see what percentage swear by solid fuel.....I assure you it will be the majority.

[Robbo]

ok Ok you win...I am biting. A solid fuel stove is simplicity itself to regulate and when you come home in the evening the boat will be nice and warm, Ive done it hundreds of times. Diesel heaters are messy and need lekctickery ( as you said ) and expensive and fuel is not as easy to obtain especialy for ccers. It is 2012 and we as a nation are going backwards at an alarming rate. Do a poll of liveaboards with say a minimum of 10 years of winters and see what percentage swear by solid fuel.....I assure you it will be the majority.

 

I'm having solid fuel on mine when I've refitted because I like the feeling of a real fire, but it does require work to keep going and the boat at a certain temperature and too keep on tick over for overnight or whilst at work. They will be days when you really can't be bothered with it and just want to flip a switch. There's people that swear by diesel stoves as well and they don't require electric and are dead easy to keep at a certain temperature 24/7! There are also some that like the pre-heater type heaters (although more swear at then swear by!), and then there are the proper oil boilers that I'm planning on installing for the auto heating...

 

I was on about if you have electric on your mooring, then oil radiators to keep the boat warm to switch on before coming home are good for auto heating..

Edited April 9, 2012 by Robbo

[bottle]

What Mrsmelly said.

 

We have a Morso it is topped up twice in 24 hrs ie. every 12 hrs, it is always on tick-over and the boat (60') stays warm at all times.

 

I never bank it right up and a bag of fuel (supertherm) lasts on average 3½ days.

[dor]

A solid fuel stove is good for heating, but it is nice to have the bathroom warm when you go for a shower in the morning. Also a rad to dry the towels on. Not essential, but nice.

 

The other issue is hot water. Whilst our stove does a decent job of keeping the boat warm, there is much to be said in the depth of winter to be able to run a boiler for 20 minutes or so to get plenty of hot water and warm the bathroom up. Last winter wasn't too bad but the previous two would have been much less comfortable without the backup of a boiler.

[Keeping Up]

Would I need central heating

 

<snip>

 

Yes

[Biggles]

I'll just throw in my solution which I considered very carefully.

 

I have an MX60 running 5 rads, a towel rail and calorifier.

 

I also have a very nice villager gas fire which is clean and as near to instant as could be.

 

My Reasons are on the blog post. Linky

[mrsmelly]

Yes

 

Im interested in why you think that allan ? after all especialy this winter being so mild. Have you been cold on the boat all this winter or are you going on months of livng aboard over previous colder winters ?

[rgreg]

I have a 57ft with Squirrel at the front and Gas boiler with 3 rads. Over winter the Squirrel is on 24/7, even when we are out all day at work. The CH is hardly ever used, just very occasionally in Spring/Autumn when the Squirrel is off and sometimes to provide hot water. Despite the central heating's very infrequent use I would still have it along with the solid fuel stove.

[Keeping Up]

Im interested in why you think that allan ? after all especialy this winter being so mild. Have you been cold on the boat all this winter or are you going on months of livng aboard over previous colder winters ?

 

I'm going by previous experience when the winter is cold; you can't always rely on it being mild every year.

 

Admittedly our boat probably has more doors and heat-obstructing partitions - the stove is at the front of the lounge and there is a full bulkhead with a door between lounge and kitchen followed by a long corridor past the bathroom after the kitchen - but our cabin is usually definitely too cold in winter without the radiators. Yes I know our boat is longer but I'm ignoring the part that is past our cabin.

[Smelly]

If you buy a Squirrel and site it in the middle of the boat you probably don't. I've known many boats that cope perfectly well; my Brunel can struggle a it though...

 

I've been onboard for 10 years and in bad winters, of which 4 come to mind, when I've got home it can be a it chilly and takes a pint or two to warm up... Also, I get up an hour before I need to and stoke the fire in the morning then back to a nice warm bed while the cabin warms up. It's not the best insulated boat though as I like daylight

[DeanS]

We used a coal stove only all winter, and fixed a small 7inch fan to the wall to blow all the hot air down the length of the boat. Worked a charm. Fan cost £10. Other non-elec devices cost over £100. (assuming you have elec hookup over the winter). I also installed an extractor fan above the stove with trunking to move the air along the floor level. In the back cabin, a small 600watt heater was more than enough. It all depends if you are on hookup over the winter/snow months or not. If not, a 12Volt fan would probably suffice to move the stove hot air around a bit.

[canals are us?]

Hi,

 

Very interesting. I think my main reasons for wanting to use solid fuel are: The welcoming view of a real fire , cost factor and the easy availability of fuel. Ie most places sell coal.

 

We run our heating here in our 2 bed detatched, rural bungalow, entirely with a multifuel boiler stove and it's a good way to heat providing you are either not working or are commited and don't mind getting back to light the fire. Our stove itself starts producing a good heat after 10 minutes and as our house has reasonable insulation never gets very cold.

I think the stove choice is paramount, better to pay more and get good control/quality.

With our villager with the fuel you can buy here none of them last long enough so it wont stay in overnight even with a damper. About 4 hours on 3 softwood logs. I think with the right sort of UK smokeless it would. The smokless here is rubbish.

 

I would hopefully be working about 3-4 days a week and would have mains electric hookup so don't mind using an oil filled rad until I get the stove going. I'll fit a stove and see how it goes, I can always fit some rads from it. I certainly wouldn't want things going damp due to lack of heating. I think a backup is good for spring/autum when its not really cold enought to light the fire.

I don't really feel the cold.

I'm more leaning towards a morco type water heater than using a calorifier. Although the calorifier can be heated from the stove. The gas boiler is better in my opinion as not having to wait for hot water only, heating what you use and if the gas water heater is between galley and bathroom minimum heat loss from pipework. Whats your thoughts? I would be residential in a marina mostly.

Woodwarm stoves.My link Nice

 

James.

Edited April 10, 2012 by canals are us?