working boat tarpaulins

[larkshall]

is it possible to obtain proper tarpaulins in this day and age?.

 

Second questions

 

I think every working boat photo I have seen employs Tarps. Was anything else ever used?, and were some boats ever boarded/planked instead.?

[alan_fincher]

Most conventional boats designed to carry mixed cargoes used "tarpaulins", (generally known as "cloths").

 

Some of the last built working boats, the "River" class built in the 1960s used instead blue fibreglass sections, each a couple of feet long, that overlapped at each join. These were self supporting, so no planks, and could be walked on, albeit that they flexed and creaked a lot.

 

They are supposed to have greatly speeded the time generally spent "clothing up", but apparently could cause havoc blowing around on very windy days. Because of their colour "River" class boats are often nick-named "blue tops". They are often now found covering parts of the hold of other boats that they were not originally used on.

 

Boats for specific purposes, such as carrying oil, tar and chemical products were different, and could be permanently decked over, with just small hatches to access the "tanks" formed by doing this.

 

Forum member "Chertsey" has recently provided a complete new set of cloths for her boat, and I know there are many options between traditional materials that can rot, and modern reinforced synthetic ones that give a good impression of not being modern at all.

 

Might be worth a PM to her, because I know each has their ples and minus points.

 

EDITED TO ADD: poor 1970s photo of "River" class boats "Ant" and "Axe" fitted with "blue tops"

 

Edited March 9, 2012 by alan_fincher

[larkshall]

Most conventional boats designed to carry mixed cargoes used "tarpaulins", (generally known as "cloths").

 

Some of the last built working boats, the "River" class built in the 1960s used instead blue fibreglass sections, each a couple of feet long, that overlapped at each join. These were self supporting, so no planks, and could be walked on, albeit that they flexed and creaked a lot.

 

They are supposed to have greatly speeded the time generally spent "clothing up", but apparently could cause havoc blowing around on very windy days. Because of their colour "River" class boats are often nick-named "blue tops". They are often now found covering parts of the hold of other boats that they were not originally used on.

 

Boats for specific purposes, such as carrying oil, tar and chemical products were different, and could be permanently decked over, with just small hatches to access the "tanks" formed by doing this.

 

Forum member "Chertsey" has recently provided a complete new set of cloths for her boat, and I know there are many options between traditional materials that can rot, and modern reinforced synthetic ones that give a good impression of not being modern at all.

 

Might be worth a PM to her, because I know each has their ples and minus points.

 

EDITED TO ADD: poor 1970s photo of "River" class boats "Ant" and "Axe" fitted with "blue tops"

 

 

Cheere Alan, will pm chertsey

[BenC]

is it possible to obtain proper tarpaulins in this day and age?.

 

Second questions

 

I think every working boat photo I have seen employs Tarps. Was anything else ever used?, and were some boats ever boarded/planked instead.?

 

Original traps were made of canvas and then painted with a tar based product hence Tarpaulins. I believe that these were originally rented to boats, maybe why the company’s logo used to be stamped on them, or maybe this was a later form of advertising.

I know that Banstead (Big Woolwich) was run for a while with blue tops.

Ben

[soldthehouse]

Regentex cloths as used in the haulage industry are the norm, try these people they are long established and easy to deal with, or google Regentex cloth sheets and the worlds your oyster

 

http://www.tonybeal.com/tarp.htm

Edited March 9, 2012 by soldthehouse

[Liam]

Try Sam Noon on FMC Verbena at Alvecote Marina.

[stagedamager]

Banstead did indeed run with blue tops, until 2000 when we bought her for restoration, can't remember where they went though!!

Dan

[pete harrison]

Banstead did indeed run with blue tops, until 2000 when we bought her for restoration, can't remember where they went though!!

Dan

 

'Blue Tops' were certainly fitted along most of BANSTEAD's hold when I photographed it in Manchester on 12 September 1995, although I got the impression this was a modification made by the then owner to keep rain out of the hold - most likely to provide additional storage for the boatyard. I am not at all sure that BANSTEAD ever really "ran with blue tops". I next photographed BANSTEAD at Nuneaton on 11 August 2001 whilst in the process of being restored, and it was still complete with the same arrangement of Blue Tops I had seen 6 years previously. By the time I photographed BANSTEAD on 21 April 2004 at Langley Mill its restoration appeared to be complete and it was set up as a fully clothed camping boat.

[pete harrison]

I think every working boat photo I have seen employs Tarps. Was anything else ever used?, and were some boats ever boarded/planked instead.?

 

When John Knill purchased the exG.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. Large Woolwich motor DUNSTABLE in 1950 he had it set up as a decked hold with removable hatch covers. This was quite forward thinking for a narrow boat operator and the theory was to improve loading / unloading times by the removal of the conventional cloth arrangement. Mr Knill sold DUNSTAN in April 1952 and its new owner continued with the removable hatch covers. DUNSTAN was sold again in October 1957 where it was returned to a conventional cloth boat.

 

The steel motor narrow boat NELSON was built in 1980 at Braunston for the carrying of coal on the River Severn and Gloucester & Sharpness Canal. This boat's design was based on that of the Isaac Pimblott & Sons Ltd. 'Admiral Class' that had been built for British Transport Waterways in the late 1950's. The only substantial difference in NELSON's design was that its hold was fitted with removable hatch covers rather than the steel hoops and cloths as fitted to the originals. NELSON came out of trade in late 1984 and was subsequently converted to a pleasure boat in 1985 (and this conversion had something to do with me ).

[Chertsey]

Regentex cloths as used in the haulage industry are the norm, try these people they are long established and easy to deal with, or google Regentex cloth sheets and the worlds your oyster

 

http://www.tonybeal.com/tarp.htm

 

 

Regentex does have a following but I would not say it is the norm.

 

I've not looked at your pm yet Larkshall so forgive me if I pre-empt it here.

 

As Alan has said, I looked into this matter quite deeply, asked a lot of people, looked at a lot of boats and spent a long time making up my mind.

 

This is some of what I learnt.

 

Cloths would originally have been cotton canvas duck, treated with tar or some such. I am not aware of anyone using this now. It only lasts a few years, it leaks, and it is horrible to handle once treated.

 

Some people swear by Regentex but I decided it was not for me because:

1. It is expensive

2. Although it is a woven canvas product, it has a rip-stop in the weave that spoils any authenticity to the look.

3. I have heard reports of it not being waterproof and requiring proofing treatment.

4. I have heard reports that the black fades, as you would expect.

 

I looked at a sample of Top Gun, and it looked impressive. I believe a lot of covers for modern boats are made out of this. I decided against it because I couldn't find anyone who had experience of using it, and it was very expensive.

 

In the end I settled for PVC lorry tarp cloth. Although not 'authentic' it is the natural modern successor to traditional cotton cloths. It is relatively cheap, absolutely waterproof, and very durable - I know of at least two boats whose PVC cloths are still serviceable after 20 years.

 

The only thing I would change if I did it again is that I would specify that the cloths be made with the 'wrong' side facing out, i.e. showing the reinforcing weave rather than the vaquely leather effect textured surface of the 'right' side.

 

My full set of cloths cost under £600 - I reckoned that if it was going to turn out to be a mistake, it might as well be a cheap one. So far I have had no cause to regret it. Have a look at the 'Chertsey latest' thread in the forum for pics.

[soldthehouse]

Regentex does have a following but I would not say it is the norm.

 

I've not looked at your pm yet Larkshall so forgive me if I pre-empt it here.

 

As Alan has said, I looked into this matter quite deeply, asked a lot of people, looked at a lot of boats and spent a long time making up my mind.

 

This is some of what I learnt.

 

Cloths would originally have been cotton canvas duck, treated with tar or some such. I am not aware of anyone using this now. It only lasts a few years, it leaks, and it is horrible to handle once treated.

 

Some people swear by Regentex but I decided it was not for me because:

1. It is expensive

2. Although it is a woven canvas product, it has a rip-stop in the weave that spoils any authenticity to the look.

3. I have heard reports of it not being waterproof and requiring proofing treatment.

4. I have heard reports that the black fades, as you would expect.

 

I looked at a sample of Top Gun, and it looked impressive. I believe a lot of covers for modern boats are made out of this. I decided against it because I couldn't find anyone who had experience of using it, and it was very expensive.

 

In the end I settled for PVC lorry tarp cloth. Although not 'authentic' it is the natural modern successor to traditional cotton cloths. It is relatively cheap, absolutely waterproof, and very durable - I know of at least two boats whose PVC cloths are still serviceable after 20 years.

 

The only thing I would change if I did it again is that I would specify that the cloths be made with the 'wrong' side facing out, i.e. showing the reinforcing weave rather than the vaquely leather effect textured surface of the 'right' side.

 

My full set of cloths cost under £600 - I reckoned that if it was going to turn out to be a mistake, it might as well be a cheap one. So far I have had no cause to regret it. Have a look at the 'Chertsey latest' thread in the forum for pics.

My link was a propmt in the right direction and the various materials available would present themselves from such a link, however I bow to your hands on experience, although personally Regentex would be my choice but purely for reasons of practicality and if they are accepted as the best for road transport and the hostile enviroment that loads endure whilst being transported on british roads in all weathers and at road speeds I would have thought for "decorative" boat use they would be under exposed. [smiley ending not a hostile reply!]

Edited March 9, 2012 by soldthehouse

[GSer]

This is a great thread for me as i'm due to buy a set soon, what i would like would be a black or dark blue outer with a cloth/weave texture, but with a white/ light grey inner surface to try and brighten up the hold's interior a little.

 

I'd like to keep it looking traditional from the outside but with a couple of easy to open from the inside sections, fore & aft, i was thinking a simple hook system or perhaps even a shock cord arrangment that would allow the top cloth to be raised from inside very easily. Side cloths can stay quite traditional.

[stagedamager]

You and me alike, I think we'll be looking at the same threads for a while.

Regarding Banstead, it makes sense the she was used as additional storage, and therefore covered in blue tops, she had been used as a mud pan for a while and had a couple of bulkheads built into the hull, I'm sure I remember when my parents went to look at her stuff being in her!

Regards

Dan

[Starcoaster]

Quick colourfix-up jobby-

 

[Chertsey]

My link was a propmt in the right direction and the various materials available would present themselves from such a link, however I bow to your hands on experience, although personally Regentex would be my choice but purely for reasons of practicality and if they are accepted as the best for road transport and the hostile enviroment that loads endure whilst being transported on british roads in all weathers and at road speeds I would have thought for "decorative" boat use they would be under exposed. [smiley ending not a hostile reply!]

I am not sure where you get the idea that Regentex is used on lorries. I have spent many, many hours on motorways closely examining the lorries as we crawl by them, and I have never seen one sheeted in what I know (and the boat world knows) as Regentex, which is a woven ripstop canvas which comes in black or (occasionally) green. Every lorry I have seen uses some form of PVC sheeting (which is what I have got on Chertsey).

 

It may be that the name Regentex is used in the lorry world, but I don't believe that this is the material that I and other boaters know by the name.

[Laurence Hogg]

I am not sure where you get the idea that Regentex is used on lorries. I have spent many, many hours on motorways closely examining the lorries as we crawl by them, and I have never seen one sheeted in what I know (and the boat world knows) as Regentex, which is a woven ripstop canvas which comes in black or (occasionally) green. Every lorry I have seen uses some form of PVC sheeting (which is what I have got on Chertsey).

 

It may be that the name Regentex is used in the lorry world, but I don't believe that this is the material that I and other boaters know by the name.

 

"Green Gourock" was the FMC choice. DH load services of Halesowen may be able to supply this and others.

[soldthehouse]

I am not sure where you get the idea that Regentex is used on lorries. I have spent many, many hours on motorways closely examining the lorries as we crawl by them, and I have never seen one sheeted in what I know (and the boat world knows) as Regentex, which is a woven ripstop canvas which comes in black or (occasionally) green. Every lorry I have seen uses some form of PVC sheeting (which is what I have got on Chertsey).

 

It may be that the name Regentex is used in the lorry world, but I don't believe that this is the material that I and other boaters know by the name.

Try my link in the first post you replied to, it is haulage based. I have roped and sheeted more lorries than you can shake a stick at The topsheet that covers the sheets is called the drip and is quite often pvc

http://www.tonybeal.com/tarp.htm#regentex

 

Try my link in the first post you replied to, it is haulage based. I have roped and sheeted more lorries than you can shake a stick at The topsheet that covers the sheets is called the drip and is quite often pvc

http://www.tonybeal.com/tarp.htm#regentex

https://www.rhinocargocontrol.co.uk/index.php?cPath=1_112

http://netandcoverservices.co.uk/default.aspx

 

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=regentex&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=649&tbm=isch&tbnid=iNVYOgL5W6mIvM:&imgref

 

http://www.jtinglis.com/technical/regentex.html

Edited March 9, 2012 by soldthehouse

[carlt]

 

Cloths would originally have been cotton canvas duck, treated with tar or some such. I am not aware of anyone using this now. It only lasts a few years, it leaks, and it is horrible to handle once treated.

 

In the end I settled for PVC lorry tarp cloth. Although not 'authentic' it is the natural modern successor to traditional cotton cloths. It is relatively cheap, absolutely waterproof, and very durable - I know of at least two boats whose PVC cloths are still serviceable after 20 years.

 

I used canvas tarps treated with Fabsil which was waterproof, long lasting, nice to handle, looked better than PVC and very cheap, being converted from unissued army catering tent corridors.

 

Mine cost £130 for enough material to make a set of side and two sets of top cloths.

[onionbargee]

Don't you mean Ex- working boat ?

 

If it was working you would be too busy to worry about the exact shade and texture of the cloths !

 

 

( I know i'm a troll.)

[Chertsey]

Try my link in the first post you replied to, it is haulage based. I have roped and sheeted more lorries than you can shake a stick at The topsheet that covers the sheets is called the drip and is quite often pvc

http://www.tonybeal.com/tarp.htm#regentex

 

 

https://www.rhinocargocontrol.co.uk/index.php?cPath=1_112

http://netandcoverservices.co.uk/default.aspx

 

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=regentex&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=649&tbm=isch&tbnid=iNVYOgL5W6mIvM:&imgref

 

http://www.jtinglis.com/technical/regentex.html

 

 

I know nothing about lorry cloth suppliers and don't pretend to, but if you go to a boat cloth supplier and ask for Regentex, you will get what I described. As I said in the first place, this has its fans, but I have also heard some serious criticisms/concerns about it, and it is expensive. Maybe I have never seen it on lorries because it is covered with a PVC 'drip', but that raises the question of why that is necessary if Regentex is so great. Are you certain we are talking about the same stuff?

 

Or maybe Regentex was used in the past but has been superseded by PVC curtain sides?

 

Don't you mean Ex- working boat ?

 

If it was working you would be too busy to worry about the exact shade and texture of the cloths !

 

 

( I know i'm a troll.)

And they have PVC! (well, mostly)

Edited March 10, 2012 by Chertsey

[soldthehouse]

I know nothing about lorry cloth suppliers and don't pretend to, but if you go to a boat cloth supplier and ask for Regentex, you will get what I described. As I said in the first place, this has its fans, but I have also heard some serious criticisms/concerns about it, and it is expensive. Maybe I have never seen it on lorries because it is covered with a PVC 'drip', but that raises the question of why that is necessary if Regentex is so great. Are you certain we are talking about the same stuff?

 

Or maybe Regentex was used in the past but has been superseded by PVC curtain sides?

 

 

And they have PVC! (well, mostly)

I,ll get some more info, we may be at odds!

[c c]

is it possible to obtain proper tarpaulins in this day and age?.

 

I bought a cover for Badsey last year made exactly to measure at a very reasonable cost from :- http://www.protectivetextile.co.uk/products/tarpaulins/canvastarps.html

[soldthehouse]

The definitive link, this is a modern canvas type cloth which is available in different weights and to which I am leant. When I asked for a supplier of traditional cloths earlier in my boat building thread, I was referred to a regentex supplier by an old hand. I quickly put two and two together and realised that it is a universally recognised product and is and was used in the haulage industry because of its resilience to wear and tear and its ability to hold a load securely. The addition of a "drip sheet" on top of canvas undersheets provides the very best in weather protection for any load in all weathers.

 

Hope this helps

http://www.jtinglis.com/regentex/regentex.html

Edited March 10, 2012 by soldthehouse

[Chertsey]

The definitive link, this is a modern canvas type cloth which is available in different weights and to which I am leant. When I asked for a supplier of traditional cloths earlier in my boat building thread, I was referred to a regentex supplier by an old hand. I quickly put two and two together and realised that it is a universally recognised product and is and was used in the haulage industry because of its resilience to wear and tear and its ability to hold a load securely. The addition of a "drip sheet" on top of canvas undersheets provides the very best in weather protection for any load in all weathers.

 

Hope this helps

http://www.jtinglis.com/regentex/regentex.html

That does sound like the same material that many boats have. Indeed I was tempted myself early on, but was put off by the reasons I stated above. Leaving aside any issues of its durability (obviously the manufacturers make great claims, but some boat owners have found it not to be waterproof), I did not like the rip stop appearance, or the cost.

 

Having said that though many other boat owners swear by it, (albeit with additional proofing and regular painting to keep it black), I just wouldn't leap into it without considering these concerns and talking to people who use it on boats.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Chertsey

[soldthehouse]

That does sound like the same material that many boats have. Indeed I was tempted myself early on, but was put off by the reasons I stated above. Leaving aside any issues of its durability (obviously the manufacturers make great claims, but some boat owners have found it not to be waterproof), I did not like the rip stop appearance, or the cost.

 

Having said that though many other boat owners swear by it, (albeit with additional proofing and regular painting to keep it black), I just wouldn't leap into it without considering these concerns and talking to people who use it on boats.

I have to agree with the possibility of less than satisfactory waterproofing in the long term. Truck sheets are obviously given the added protection of the much mentioned "dripsheet" as even the thickest workhardened canvas will only withstand showers. On reflection, Regentex type canvas while fulfilling an aesthetic ideal may well fall down in the ultimate waterresistance department as they are not best suited to constant 24/7 exposure which covering a hold will entail.

Your choice of a pvc type cover in service will therefore provide a better product to live with, so well done with the research