Boat Size question

[RLWP]

Yes I didnt understand that bit ? My 70 footer had no probs in the midlands !!

 

Especially as parts of the BCN are probably the only places you could use a 90' x 7' boat

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

Ok, OK I admit to the error - I was just trying to simplify the whole issue for the OP and went too far.

 

Midlands = 70 foot x 7 foot (or maybe a tad under 7 foot in some areas, and maybe a tad over 7 foot in some areas, you may also be able to get a 72 foot in some locks but not others)

[Hairy-Neil]

It sounds to me that you need a widebeam 'narrow'boat of about 12ft width by about 60ft long. This will enable you to explore nearly all the canals in comfort. The problem of getting from the Southern canals to the Northern canals (only a narrow (6ft 10ins) connection) can be overcome by doing all of one system then doing the other, to get from one to the other you can either have the boat transported by road or do a 'short' sea voyage - others can advise on this possibility if you are interested!

All the best!

 

John

 

Which 'short' sea voyage would this be, Liverpool - Bristol, or Boston - London....

 

Summary :

a ) You can do North of the Midlands in a 60' x 10' (or maybe 12')

b ) You can only do the Midlands in a 60' x under 7'

c ) You can do South of the Midlands in a 60' x 10' (or maybe 12')

 

You cannot get from A to C without going thru' B - unless you crane it out at the bottom end of A and crane it back in at the top end of C

 

If you have a boat that will do B then you can do ALL of the canal system (although some say the max length is 57' or 58' - others disagree.

 

You could have a 58ft dumb boat coupled to a 12ft push tug....

[mrsmelly]

Which 'short' sea voyage would this be, Liverpool - Bristol, or Boston - London....

 

 

 

You could have a 58ft dumb boat coupled to a 12ft push tug....

 

Yes these type of posts always amaze me. NO inland waterways craft is suitable for that kind of use. My fat narrowboat is built 12/8/4 and well put together but speaking from my sea experience I can assure you that it wil definately NEVER be venturing north to south or south to north other than on the back of a truck they simply are NOT in any way seaworthy. Of course we then get the odd few who will say wait for good weather I have set off from Guzz to St petersport on more than one ocasion in fabulous weather and arrived in a squall.

[mickspangle]

. The only way to Scotland is to go via the stuff coloured light blue on the map. This is known as sea,

 

 

Lol. If only I could award greenies from my mobile phone.

[PhilR]

First off thank you for being here.

 

My question is this. I will be having my first boat designed and built towards the end of this year and need to know whether my vision for it would fit in with the size of canals. I do not wish to contact the boat builder until I am ready to take it to the next level and hence why I am asking you good people

 

I will need 4 double bedrooms (with at least 2 with en suite), 2 offices, a galley, living area and main head. Could such a build fit into the canal system as a whole? I was wondering about turning it around you see. Would a boat at 90ft be able to do this and is 90ft the largest a boat can be on the canal system and would all these rooms I will need fit into a 90ft build? Also, would I need a Wide Beam or a Dutch Barge to get the specifications I wish?

 

Thanks in advance for any feedback anyone can give me.

Billi

 

4 double bedrooms and at least 2 en suite .......... this should be a good pump-out thread!!

[Jimmy P]

I have been 'wigging' into this thread with interest. We have acquired a 60 x 12 widebeam and are moored on the L&L; we are new to the canals, having finished a good stint of living aboard at sea on an 11m yacht. We've done the Midi (most of it) and returned to the UK via the French canals.

We (me and the No 1, under her orders) wish to move to the southern system (mainly to avoid the weather).

The serious question I have (it is relevant to the thread) where do we lift out and re-launch in the Grand Union? Can anyone recommend cranage/haulage companies for the job? What sort of costs are involved?

If we don't make it all the way this year, can anyone recommend a winter mooring in readiness (and proximity) for the lift?

Though I would not think of sailing from the Wash to Gt Yarmouth in a narrowboat, I would have thought a widebeam (though flat bottomed) would be stable enough for a coastal trip in fair weather (75 miles - 15 hours) - advice would be appreciated esp from boaters who've done it. (No offence meant).

Thanks,

Jimmy.

[David Mack]

The serious question I have (it is relevant to the thread) where do we lift out and re-launch in the Grand Union? Can anyone recommend cranage/haulage companies for the job? What sort of costs are involved?

 

Talk to some of the boat moving companies, such as Tuckeys or Streethay (and there are others). They will know the locations where you can crane out and in again and will be able to give you a price.

 

David

[Jimmy P]

Talk to some of the boat moving companies, such as Tuckeys or Streethay (and there are others). They will know the locations where you can crane out and in again and will be able to give you a price.

 

David

 

Thanks very much, David - It's appreciated.

[jonk]

Which 'short' sea voyage would this be, Liverpool - Bristol, or Boston - London....

 

I was thinking of The Wash - on the map it looks about 10miles from South River Welland to the North River Witham. Must admit that I have no knowledge of that link or whether it is possible! Narrowboats cross the channel (not I!!!) so it would appear possible in a larger widebeam, but I give way to more knowledgeable boaters. Is it not a possible route for some reason?

 

John

 

 

 

[magpie patrick]

I was thinking of The Wash - on the map it looks about 10miles from South River Welland to the North River Witham. Must admit that I have no knowledge of that link or whether it is possible! Narrowboats cross the channel (not I!!!) so it would appear possible in a larger widebeam, but I give way to more knowledgeable boaters. Is it not a possible route for some reason?

 

John

 

Trouble is, a wide beam can cross from the Witham to the Nene and Ouse, but even if it does it can't get to the Grand Union Main Line because of these

 

 

Rosersthorpe locks, linking the GU main line to the Nene

[Roger Gunkel]

I have been 'wigging' into this thread with interest. We have acquired a 60 x 12 widebeam and are moored on the L&L; we are new to the canals, having finished a good stint of living aboard at sea on an 11m yacht. We've done the Midi (most of it) and returned to the UK via the French canals.

We (me and the No 1, under her orders) wish to move to the southern system (mainly to avoid the weather).

The serious question I have (it is relevant to the thread) where do we lift out and re-launch in the Grand Union? Can anyone recommend cranage/haulage companies for the job? What sort of costs are involved?

If we don't make it all the way this year, can anyone recommend a winter mooring in readiness (and proximity) for the lift?

Though I would not think of sailing from the Wash to Gt Yarmouth in a narrowboat, I would have thought a widebeam (though flat bottomed) would be stable enough for a coastal trip in fair weather (75 miles - 15 hours) - advice would be appreciated esp from boaters who've done it. (No offence meant).

Thanks,

Jimmy.

Jimmy, I took my 25ft seagoing motorsailer from the Wash to Great Yarmouth and that is fully equipped for sea work including nav gear, VHF, safety equipment etc. It also has a speed of about 7-8kts. There is absolutely no way that you will get from The Wash to GY in 15 hours in a widebeam canal boat. Firstly the tidal streams will slow your progress, as will any sort of seaway, the conditions on the East Coast are very variable and wind over tide are notorious for kicking up short nasty seas. A wide beam with a top speed of 5-6mph will struggle at times to make any progress at all and there are no ports to run to in an emergency.

 

We planned to take two hops of about 9 hours with a stopover in Wells. In fact we had to wait for clearance over the bar into Wells and were at sea for over 10 hours on the first day. Weather changed from a forecast force 2-3, confirmed by the CG when leaving Kings Lynn into a force 5 by the time we reached Wells. we were forced to anchor off Wells, but it was so rough with breaking waves that we headed out about 5 miles offshore to find deeper smoother water. The second day was also a good forecast, but it was obvious as we left Wells channel marker that the conditions were far worse than forecast we had 6ft breaking seas until we were further out, fighting to stop the boat from broaching. We live on a 57ft widebeam and if we had been on her at that stage, we couldn't have turned back and the boat would have been overwhelmed. As it was, it took us 10 hours to GY and was not a pleasant trip. I wouldn''t contemplate an East Coast trip on any boat that wasn't specifically designed for sea work, and even short hops across the Wash from Boston to The River Nene are not to be taken lightly.

 

Roger

Edited February 15, 2012 by Roger Gunkel

[ditchcrawler]

I have been 'wigging' into this thread with interest. We have acquired a 60 x 12 widebeam and are moored on the L&L; we are new to the canals, having finished a good stint of living aboard at sea on an 11m yacht. We've done the Midi (most of it) and returned to the UK via the French canals.

We (me and the No 1, under her orders) wish to move to the southern system (mainly to avoid the weather).

The serious question I have (it is relevant to the thread) where do we lift out and re-launch in the Grand Union? Can anyone recommend cranage/haulage companies for the job? What sort of costs are involved?

If we don't make it all the way this year, can anyone recommend a winter mooring in readiness (and proximity) for the lift?

Though I would not think of sailing from the Wash to Gt Yarmouth in a narrowboat, I would have thought a widebeam (though flat bottomed) would be stable enough for a coastal trip in fair weather (75 miles - 15 hours) - advice would be appreciated esp from boaters who've done it. (No offence meant).

Thanks,

Jimmy.

I only now one narrowboat to successfully sail from the Wash to Gt Yarmouth and that was Chris Coburn. He made a video called Wash and Go http://www.laurencehoggproductions.co.uk/washandgo.htm

 

Of course Phyllis who is on here has done it but not in a Narrowboat

[Jimmy P]

Trouble is, a wide beam can cross from the Witham to the Nene and Ouse, but even if it does it can't get to the Grand Union Main Line because of these

 

 

Rosersthorpe locks, linking the GU main line to the Nene

 

Thank you. I knew I could not get the whole way up the Nene, possibly to a place called Earith?, so asked if Oundle Marina had a spot for winter and a lift-out to shift us to the GU.

The marina replied that we would not get through the marina cut; this confused me, making me wonder about the 'cut' - I assume it is the entrance to the marina and not the canal cut in general. I am still researching and soaking everyones info, much appreciated.

Jimmy

[Jimmy P]

Jimmy, I took my 25ft seagoing motorsailer from the Wash to Great Yarmouth and that is fully equipped for sea work including nav gear, VHF, safety equipment etc. It also has a speed of about 7-8kts. There is absolutely no way that you will get from The Wash to GY in 15 hours in a widebeam canal boat. Firstly the tidal streams will slow your progress, as will any sort of seaway, the conditions on the East Coast are very variable and wind over tide are notorious for kicking up short nasty seas. A wide beam with a top speed of 5-6mph will struggle at times to make any progress at all and there are no ports to run to in an emergency.

 

We planned to take two hops of about 9 hours with a stopover in Wells. In fact we had to wait for clearance over the bar into Wells and were at sea for over 10 hours on the first day. Weather changed from a forecast force 2-3, confirmed by the CG when leaving Kings Lynn into a force 5 by the time we reached Wells. we were forced to anchor off Wells, but it was so rough with breaking waves that we headed out about 5 miles offshore to find deeper smoother water. The second day was also a good forecast, but it was obvious as we left Wells channel marker that the conditions were far worse than forecast we had 6ft breaking seas until we were further out, fighting to stop the boat from broaching. We live on a 57ft widebeam and if we had been on her at that stage, we couldn't have turned back and the boat would have been overwhelmed. As it was, it took us 10 hours to GY and was not a pleasant trip. I wouldn''t contemplate an East Coast trip on any boat that wasn't specifically designed for sea work, and even short hops across the Wash from Boston to The River Nene are not to be taken lightly.

 

Roger

 

 

Thanks, Roger. The best laid plans of mice and sailors.... We have been there many times. I thought it worth asking the question of those who know the waters; the Irish Sea (and Med for that matter in places) is shallow and suffers short, steep seas. I think I'll be OK with the trip across the Wash, but am leaning (again) to the Trent, lifting out at some convenient point to cart her to Braunston, but don't yet know about facilities there.

I seem to be working harder on this than at college (but that was some time ago). Thanks again, Jimmy.

[Roger Gunkel]

Thank you. I knew I could not get the whole way up the Nene, possibly to a place called Earith?, so asked if Oundle Marina had a spot for winter and a lift-out to shift us to the GU.

The marina replied that we would not get through the marina cut; this confused me, making me wonder about the 'cut' - I assume it is the entrance to the marina and not the canal cut in general. I am still researching and soaking everyones info, much appreciated.

Jimmy

You can certainly get up the Nene to Earith and beyond. There is a small Marine in Earith that should also be able to crane you out, they are called Westview Marina. They will probably be able to let you have a Winter mooring as well. There is also Hermitage Marina just before the lock at Earith where you may be able to get a Winter mooring.

 

Oops sorry! had to edit to say that Earith is on the Ouse not the Nene, and that would mean coming through King's Lynn and Ely. I don't think you can get through the middle levels from the Nene in a widebeam, although I could be wrong.

 

Roger

Edited February 15, 2012 by Roger Gunkel

[Jimmy P]

I only now one narrowboat to successfully sail from the Wash to Gt Yarmouth and that was Chris Coburn. He made a video called Wash and Go http://www.laurencehoggproductions.co.uk/washandgo.htm

 

Of course Phyllis who is on here has done it but not in a Narrowboat

 

Thanks Ditchcrawler, I'll see if it's in the library. Are there unsuccessful attempts (sinkings, loss of life etc)?

Jimmy

[soldthehouse]

This thread is a windup isnt it?

[Jimmy P]

You can certainly get up the Nene to Earith and beyond. There is a small Marine in Earith that should also be able to crane you out, they are called Westview Marina. They will probably be able to let you have a Winter mooring as well. There is also Hermitage Marina just before the lock at Earith where you may be able to get a Winter mooring.

 

Oops sorry! had to edit to say that Earith is on the Ouse not the Nene, and that would mean coming through King's Lynn and Ely. I don't think you can get through the middle levels from the Nene in a widebeam, although I could be wrong.

 

Roger

 

Thanks again Roger, I'll add the info to the file. I am now getting confused with the rivers! This http://www.canals.com/canaldata.htm shows the middle level (20 foot river - whatever that is) as 72ft x 14ft, but I dunno for real.

I note that you are on the Cam, are there moorings available there and is it ok for the lift-out / proximity to the GU?

[Jimmy P]

This thread is a windup isnt it?

 

No Sir. I am serious about this. I have a widebeam 60 x 12, it is in the rainy, windy corridor of the L&L. We got it last August, sailed to the top lock of the Wigan flight and the mate said 'No further, my back is killing me (metaphorically as it turned out) due to the stiffness of the lock gates, she couldn't move many of them and the pair of us struggled at other times. So the decision was not to sell the boat, but to move south for better used and maintained navigations. I am an ex seaman of some thousands of miles and have an inkling or two about boats, but I am ignorant of how to get from the L&L to the GU where we can start to explore more waters.

If you have some advice to give, it would be appreciated.

Which part do you think is a wind-up, anyway?

 

Jimmy

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks again Roger, I'll add the info to the file. I am now getting confused with the rivers! This http://www.canals.com/canaldata.htm shows the middle level (20 foot river - whatever that is) as 72ft x 14ft, but I dunno for real.

I note that you are on the Cam, are there moorings available there and is it ok for the lift-out / proximity to the GU?

11' 6" and you could have problems with the depth see http://www.middlelevel.gov.uk/docs/NavNotes2012.pdf

[Roger Gunkel]

Thanks again Roger, I'll add the info to the file. I am now getting confused with the rivers! This http://www.canals.com/canaldata.htm shows the middle level (20 foot river - whatever that is) as 72ft x 14ft, but I dunno for real.

I note that you are on the Cam, are there moorings available there and is it ok for the lift-out / proximity to the GU?

I'm not a canal person Jimmy, preferring the wider waterways, but I think that we are bout 90 minutes on a Low loader from the marina to Milton Keynes. The Marina here does have a crane and can lift our 57'x10' , and there are a number of marinas within 10 miles or so that may have moorings.

 

Roger

[soldthehouse]

No Sir. I am serious about this. I have a widebeam 60 x 12, it is in the rainy, windy corridor of the L&L. We got it last August, sailed to the top lock of the Wigan flight and the mate said 'No further, my back is killing me (metaphorically as it turned out) due to the stiffness of the lock gates, she couldn't move many of them and the pair of us struggled at other times. So the decision was not to sell the boat, but to move south for better used and maintained navigations. I am an ex seaman of some thousands of miles and have an inkling or two about boats, but I am ignorant of how to get from the L&L to the GU where we can start to explore more waters.

If you have some advice to give, it would be appreciated.

Which part do you think is a wind-up, anyway?

 

Jimmy

Not your part ,sorry if you thought it was directed at you

[ditchcrawler]

I'm not a canal person Jimmy, preferring the wider waterways, but I think that we are bout 90 minutes on a Low loader from the marina to Milton Keynes. The Marina here does have a crane and can lift our 57'x10' , and there are a number of marinas within 10 miles or so that may have moorings.

 

Roger

I used Calcutt to lift my narrow boat in purely because they have their own lifting equipment on site and after making initial arrangements of the date with them, it was just a matter of turning up during working hours and they would do it. This meant I wouldn't be paying crane hire fees if the lorry with the boat on it got held up for a couple of hours on the A14.

I do not know if they can lift wide beams.

[Graham Davis]

No Sir. I am serious about this. I have a widebeam 60 x 12, it is in the rainy, windy corridor of the L&L. We got it last August, sailed to the top lock of the Wigan flight and the mate said 'No further, my back is killing me (metaphorically as it turned out) due to the stiffness of the lock gates, she couldn't move many of them and the pair of us struggled at other times. So the decision was not to sell the boat, but to move south for better used and maintained navigations. I am an ex seaman of some thousands of miles and have an inkling or two about boats, but I am ignorant of how to get from the L&L to the GU where we can start to explore more waters.

If you have some advice to give, it would be appreciated.

Which part do you think is a wind-up, anyway?

 

Jimmy

 

 

Hmm, I'm not so sure about that comment!!

Edited February 15, 2012 by Graham Davis