RCR........MAGIC

[dor]

....... he called RCR to fit a belt he already had? .... and then whinged about them .... do I miss your point here? .... sorry, must be me.

 

Hence my comment in my earlier post!

[alan_fincher]

Now I find myself not sure what to do............mrsmelly is certainly someone I respect on matters boating (will not do politics with him!!!) My boat is now 5 years old so should I join? had I joined when I bought the boat and renewed every year I would have spent £625 so far for no return! Now I have never had a major break down and have the engine serviced and checked every 250 hours. Maybe after 5 years I should join as this might well be when things start to go wrong!!!

I feel they have done themselves no favours at all by last years big price hike and the inclusion of their "parts replacement" cover. If you actually look at the T&Cs of what that includes, (or more specifically what it does not!), then I think the cover is not worth the extra charge, and you can't opt out of it.

 

I've never had to use their services, and nearly didn't renew last year. If it has got even more expensive this year, or the cover has acquired even more small print, then I think I'm unlikely to do so again.

 

I couldn't even use the fact that I had full "no claims" discount built up on one boat to attract any kind of discount when I wanted to put the same level of cover on a second. Effectively they wanted to treat me like I had just bought my first boat, and that they had no track record of e as a customer who has so far paid them a lot of money, and never called them, (surely their "dream ticket", if trying to make money, with lowest possible costs).

 

So their engineers may be fab, I don't know, but I'm less happy with the way they are selling their cover, and the lack of any great flexibility in picking a package to truly suit your personal needs, and own levels of DIY skills.

[steelaway]

....... he called RCR to fit a belt he already had? .... and then whinged about them .... do I miss your point here? .... sorry, must be me.

 

 

 

Not every one is as good as you.

 

Many people are just not capable, or have the expertise, or the tools, or the inclination, to fit one - especially when they paid lots of money for a repair service.

 

I do enjoy being blunt!!

 

Alex

[ditchcrawler]

My mate wasn't too impressed with their service, although it could have been a contractor.

When his alternator belt went he called them for the first time ever. The engineer arrived pretty quickly but it seems it couldn't get away quickly enough either.

My mate had a spare belt which he offered to the engineer but he wasn't interested in fitting it, only to fit a temporary rivet type.

He told him to take it a marina to get it replaced and was off. Which he had to do at further cost.

 

Alex

Was that engine start or domestic? if it was domestic he was lucky they did anything. Surprised about the riveted one as they are very expensive.

[Albion]

Not every one is as good as you.

 

Many people are just not capable, or have the expertise, or the tools, or the inclination, to fit one - especially when they paid lots of money for a repair service.

 

I do enjoy being blunt!!

 

Alex

 

Sorry, but anyone who has the capability but not the inclination to fit a belt deserves to pay ever increasing premiums and are increasing premiums for other more deserving clients!

I do enjoy being blunt!!

Roger

Edited December 27, 2011 by Albion

[Jim Batty]

They should overall make a profit from those who pay their premiums and do not break down. ...

 

 

This was discussed here some months back. I was surprised to hear that around 50% of those who insure each year make a claim. This struck me as a lot of people doing very little basic servicing.

 

We had excellent service from RCR on my first call-out this past summer. I could tell on the phone that the contracted engineer was bushed -- he and friends had just spent the last five days covering over 100 locks in the Midlands and he was literally on his way driving home in the SE to have dinner with his daughter when he was asked to ring me in Henley with our fuel filter problem (spewing fuel!). Anyway he showed up, fixed the problem, was friendly and even managed a few jokes over the procedure. He even rang me back that evening with the serial number of a different fuel/H2O filter he recommended.

 

He told me that the biggest drawback to the contracted part of his job was boat owners who thought they knew more about the problems than he did - trying to dictate over his shoulder, as it were, and sometimes refusing to believe/accept his evaluation and method of repair. If you're going to call out an expert, it's probably a good idea to let him/her get on with it!

 

Built into the RCR service, though, is a bit of non-incentive to look after the engine yourself: if you bugger something up yourself during servicing or fixing an engine, then you are not covered by the RCR insurance. (I think they will come out and help, but you will be fully charged.) So you need to be sure of what your are doing.

 

With the new parts replacement offer - which effectively jacked up the annual insurance fee by about 80% - the fine print list of parts IS limited. I think they basically make their money on this by having access to parts at extremely competitive prices.

[steelaway]

 

Sorry, but anyone who has the capability but not the inclination to fit a belt deserves to pay ever increasing premiums and are increasing premiums for other more deserving clients!

I do enjoy being blunt!!

Roger

 

 

 

Therefore and according to your logic - the more deserving are the ones who have paid for it but don't use their service - Weird ?

I also said he WASN'T capable.

 

Alex

[jelunga]

We had bronze, and have had only one occassion to call them out. This was when the engine dropped all it's oil into the engine tray. They arrived quite a lot later than advised, and were two young guys in an RCR van. They had a preconceived idea of what was going to be wrong and wanted to take off the oil filter and replace it checking the sealing ring was fitted correctly.

I thought it was the engine breather hose kinking and allowing the crankcase to pressurise and this forced the oil out of the drain pump.

Let us say at the end of the day they refilled the engine with oil. After they left I then sorted out the breather hose rerouting it so it would not kink again. The problem has not reoccurred.

At renewal this month, since I get retainer level in my Navigatirs and General Policy for free, and the discount they offered on my Bronze membership to take this paid for by the insurance co retainer into account was almost an insulte I cancelled the bronze and will rely on the retainer provided as part of my ins policy.

Might be a good move - might have been stupid. If I felt confident about the engineers ability and experience I might have done something else

Edited December 27, 2011 by jelunga

[Albion]

Therefore and according to your logic - the more deserving are the ones who have paid for it but don't use their service - Weird ?

I also said he WASN'T capable.

 

Alex

The use of the word 'or' suggests that each case is a separate case. Had you used 'and' then it would have read differently.

Twisting what I said hasn't proved anything. As you know, I was saying that anyone who had the capability but couldn't be bothered to do the job cannot expect anything other than rising premiums due to the amount of unnecessary call-outs. Those that really need to call out the assistance should, of course, do so. Anyone that was capable of changing a belt, and had the belt to hand, could have done the job before the engineer even got on site.

Roger

[steelaway]

The use of the word 'or' suggests that each case is a separate case. Had you used 'and' then it would have read differently.

Twisting what I said hasn't proved anything. As you know, I was saying that anyone who had the capability but couldn't be bothered to do the job cannot expect anything other than rising premiums due to the amount of unnecessary call-outs. Those that really need to call out the assistance should, of course, do so. Anyone that was capable of changing a belt, and had the belt to hand, could have done the job before the engineer even got on site.

Roger

 

 

 

 

Now you are assuming he was capable but couldn't be bothered - that was not the case.

He had paid for a repair service and assumed he would get one - what he got was a bodge job and told to go else where for a repair.

What's the point of paying for an insurance and not claiming on it when its needed. Who is to decide what is an unnecessary call out, it would all depend on the individual circumstances and the individual client.

I am quite capable of doing any repairs to my boat and I have always done so. I wouldn't dream of paying any one to work on my boat, but I am capable, have the expertise and the inclination, unlike the many who take out this policy.

If you are going to charge a fee for for a repair cover you must to provide that cover and hopefully have only a small percentage call upon it so you make a good large profit.

 

Alex

[steelaway]

Was that engine start or domestic? if it was domestic he was lucky they did anything. Surprised about the riveted one as they are very expensive.

 

 

 

I remember now.

It was the alternator/water pump belt on a Beta engine. When he took it into the marina to be replace they had to remove the four Allen screws and remove the bottom pulley that was hard up against the bulkhead, to be able to fit the new rear belt.

I suspect that engineer knew this and wasn't willing to spend an hour plus dong this and it eating into their profits.

Someone must have advised my mate to carry one as it would be unlikely any engineer would carry all the belts and it would save them time.

 

Alex

[Tony Brooks]

I remember now.

It was the alternator/water pump belt on a Beta engine. When he took it into the marina to be replace they had to remove the four Allen screws and remove the bottom pulley that was hard up against the bulkhead, to be able to fit the new rear belt.

I suspect that engineer knew this and wasn't willing to spend an hour plus dong this and it eating into their profits.

Someone must have advised my mate to carry one as it would be unlikely any engineer would carry all the belts and it would save them time.

 

Alex

 

 

And that is exactly why the engineers carry the riveted belts - not the eating into their profits bit. The makers claim these belts have the same or better life than normal belts. From memory the cover is only for up to two hours work (possibly including travelling)and/or recovery to a suitable place for repair at the owner's expense.

 

Seems to me as if they did fulfil their part of the contract to the letter in this case - they are a BREAKDOWN service NOT a repair service although the two often cross.

 

I am nor am member but when (and if) I go long term cruising I will probably join as retained because it would often be worth the call out fee to get parts delivered to out of the way places with no transport. However I will read and understand the terms and conditions so I know what to expect.

[jonathanA]

Now I find myself not sure what to do............mrsmelly is certainly someone I respect on matters boating (will not do politics with him!!!) My boat is now 5 years old so should I join? had I joined when I bought the boat and renewed every year I would have spent £625 so far for no return! Now I have never had a major break down and have the engine serviced and checked every 250 hours. Maybe after 5 years I should join as this might well be when things start to go wrong!!!

 

 

I was in a similar dilemma this year. Having been stranded for a 36 hours at gargrave when my alternator belt snapped and I didn't have a spare (yes I know I have two now). I really wished I could have rung up RCR and had a new one brought to me. eventually I managed to get a local car repair outfit to order up a selection and eventually we were on our way. (one option had been to join the RCR there and then and pay the £40 to get an immediate call out) - the local garage charged me about £20 for a pair of belts.

 

before setting off for a cruise later in the year I decided that i needed the 'peace of mind' and looked at RCR in detail and as others have pointed out the parts included are far from comprehensive and i looked at the couple of minor problems I'd had and concluded that the parts wouldn't have been covered by RCR. I do have the inclination and capability to replace alternator belts and deal with other minor problems and prefer to do so myself if posible.

 

I can see the attaction of the gold service but it comes at a price and even the standard service seems chuffing expensive to me.

 

My insurers offer a £60/year policy that offers a similar service to the contracted out RCR service - i.e a local engineer will turn up and sort you out. You have to pay him and reclaim the cost from the company.

 

In terms of the only problem I've had so far (touchwood)that stopped me (broken belt) - knowing that if it had more serious or if the batteries had been too flat to re-start the engine I could have called someone for help would defintiely have been worth something. either the RCR or the insurance policy thing would have helped me out, the £60 a year option seems like better value to me, so thats what i do.

 

you pays your money and takes your choice !

[Rod a mod from Tod]

At renewal this month, since I get retainer level in my Navigatirs and General Policy for free, and the discount they offered on my Bronze membership to take this paid for by the insurance co retainer into account was almost an insulte I cancelled the bronze and will rely on the retainer provided as part of my ins policy.

Might be a good move - might have been stupid. If I felt confident about the engineers ability and experience I might have done something else

 

Fell for that one myself.

 

Got retainer cover with N&G and wanted to upgrade to gold as i am a mechanical buffoon.

 

In my mind say Gold (not actual prices) is £200, Retainer is £50 that says to me, balance is £150 to upgrade. But no. They said it would be say £175 making my Gold cover £225. Again not actual prices but not far off. Plus as it had to be done over the phone i lost the online discount. 5% i think.

 

Try as i could i could not find anything to say this in any of the bumff from RCR or N&G though that is not to say its not there.

 

These fact will be taken into consideration at renewal time. I would be interested in the name of the insurance company mentioned by jonathanA.

[Timleech]

And that is exactly why the engineers carry the riveted belts - not the eating into their profits bit. The makers claim these belts have the same or better life than normal belts. From memory the cover is only for up to two hours work (possibly including travelling)and/or recovery to a suitable place for repair at the owner's expense.

 

Seems to me as if they did fulfil their part of the contract to the letter in this case - they are a BREAKDOWN service NOT a repair service although the two often cross.

 

I am nor am member but when (and if) I go long term cruising I will probably join as retained because it would often be worth the call out fee to get parts delivered to out of the way places with no transport. However I will read and understand the terms and conditions so I know what to expect.

 

One thing to bear in mind is that link belts usually have a power rating substantially below that for a solid belt. This can mean that if your standard belt is working near the limit of its capacity, and a lot of boat alternator single belts are these days, the life of a link belt can be very short. Treat it as a get you home measure, maybe one step above the old bodge of ladies' tights for a car fanbelt, and not as a long lasting solution. If you/they have to resort to fitting a link belt, get a proper solid belt when you can & keep the link belt as a spare.

That said, if the link belt is working within IT's limit, then modern plastic link belts can indeed last very well and without constant adjustment, unlike their fabric based predecessors.

 

Tim

 

edit fir spilling

Edited December 28, 2011 by Timleech

[dor]

Sorry, but anyone who has the capability but not the inclination to fit a belt deserves to pay ever increasing premiums and are increasing premiums for other more deserving clients!

 

The problem to my mind is that it is the people who do look after their engines and fix things themselves that are subsidising those who can't be bothered. OK I accept that some people are incapable of changing a belt, but this is encouraging others to take an easy way out.

 

The answer would be to offer a significant NCD to people that pay up year after year but never call them out.

[jonathanA]

Fell for that one myself.

 

These fact will be taken into consideration at renewal time. I would be interested in the name of the insurance company mentioned by jonathanA.

 

I do it through my insurance broker - collidge and partners. The policy is actually with a company called amicus legal and its underwritten by DAS. I haven't used it thankfully - but theres a 24hr helpline and its seems a simple policy (only 4 A5 pages and not lots of small print).

 

drawback is its seems to be tied in to my marine insurance policy.

[Circe]

I do it through my insurance broker - collidge and partners. The policy is actually with a company called amicus legal and its underwritten by DAS. I haven't used it thankfully - but theres a 24hr helpline and its seems a simple policy (only 4 A5 pages and not lots of small print).

 

drawback is its seems to be tied in to my marine insurance policy.

 

That's worth knowing because we're insured with them too. Going to take a look - thank you

 

Our only breakdown was within a fortnight of buying our boat (and after having it serviced and a lot of maintenance jobs done) We didn't have the tools to fix it on board (and probably wouldn't have known what we were doing even if we had) but have done a fair bit of learning about diesel engines via courses etc since.

 

I'm hesitant to renew with RCR simply because they contracted someone who strung out (what we now know is) a simple job for 3 days and did unnecessary jobs to try and squeeze more money out of us. Whilst they weren't directly responsible for that, he was the engineer they sent us...

 

I really don't know what to do about it, tbh. My main concern is not being stranded with our son again - that was a pretty awful experience - and I'd happily pay a higher premium if I could find a reliable service.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Circe

[mrsmelly]

And that is exactly why the engineers carry the riveted belts - not the eating into their profits bit. The makers claim these belts have the same or better life than normal belts. From memory the cover is only for up to two hours work (possibly including travelling)and/or recovery to a suitable place for repair at the owner's expense.

 

Seems to me as if they did fulfil their part of the contract to the letter in this case - they are a BREAKDOWN service NOT a repair service although the two often cross.

 

I am nor am member but when (and if) I go long term cruising I will probably join as retained because it would often be worth the call out fee to get parts delivered to out of the way places with no transport. However I will read and understand the terms and conditions so I know what to expect.

 

Hi Tony

 

I pay just over two pounds a week for RCR bronze cover. I am more than capable of changing a drive plate BUT like many others dont carry a spare one. I see people typing on here they think RCR are expensive. I believe them to be mind blowingly cheap at 2 quid odd a week regardless of how often or how little the boat is used. Just the piece of mind of knowing someone will turn up and get me going is worth every penny. Its funny what people spend their money on some will not pay 125 quid for peace of mind boating but will pay 500 quid for some silly modern fone that err talks to them, I paid 5 quid for my fone last year and it called RCR just as well as an expensive one.

As for how many hours they give for a call out I have never read the policy but suffice to say with travelling time they were in excess of five hours at least sorting me out.

I think its a service I would join even if I had your mechanical knowledge just for the reasons I have stated

[cotswoldsman]

The problem to my mind is that it is the people who do look after their engines and fix things themselves that are subsidising those who can't be bothered. OK I accept that some people are incapable of changing a belt, but this is encouraging others to take an easy way out.

 

The answer would be to offer a significant NCD to people that pay up year after year but never call them out.

 

But surely that is how all these things work, AA,RAC Insurance etc. Now for myself in the 5 years I have had my boat I have never been inside the engine thingy, would not even know how to check the oil, (well maybe if I was pushed) I have no desire to do anything mechanical and will always pay someone to do it.

[Guest]

But surely that is how all these things work, AA,RAC Insurance etc. Now for myself in the 5 years I have had my boat I have never been inside the engine thingy, would not even know how to check the oil, (well maybe if I was pushed) I have no desire to do anything mechanical and will always pay someone to do it.

 

I think it is exactly how it works - I think the point is though is, how can it be fair, should I really pay the same for my Green Flag cover as someone who will call them out to change a wheel, when I would just do that myself.

[cotswoldsman]

I think it is exactly how it works - I think the point is though is, how can it be fair, should I really pay the same for my Green Flag cover as someone who will call them out to change a wheel, when I would just do that myself.

 

Then do not join....same as I do not have RCR as I pay for things to be done as I go along and as I have so far never had to call anyone out in 5 years to do any emergency work I figure I am £625 in credit and have subsidised no one except myself.......

[Albion]

Then do not join....same as I do not have RCR as I pay for things to be done as I go along and as I have so far never had to call anyone out in 5 years to do any emergency work I figure I am £625 in credit and have subsidised no one except myself.......

 

Yes, exactly, at the end of the day it is an insurance policy just like any other non-mandatory insurance. You choose whether to accept the risk yourself or to take the cover at the price quoted. When I was boating in the UK I did take basic RCR cover, not because I couldn't do the job myself, I could, but for the added convenience of someone bringing out a part that I hadn't got, to wherever I was and directly to the boat. I never needed their services but it was an insurance that I chose to pay for peace of mind.

Only the individual concerned can decide whether the risk is worth the money.

Roger

[Guest]

Then do not join....same as I do not have RCR as I pay for things to be done as I go along and as I have so far never had to call anyone out in 5 years to do any emergency work I figure I am £625 in credit and have subsidised no one except myself.......

 

That is not a practical option though - the day may come when something happens which is beyond my skill set to be able to deal with, I am merely arguing for a fairer pricing structure that 'rewards' folk for talking basic jobs themselves, you can then make an informed choice about whether you call them out to change a wheel/fan belt etc yourself or you get the AA/RAC/Green Flag/RCR to do it and take a bit of a financial 'hit' at renewal time.

 

Aside from any limit on call outs or 'Fair usage' limits, which exist on some breakdown policies, there is no disincentive to just picking the phone up......

 

Yes, exactly, at the end of the day it is an insurance policy just like any other non-mandatory insurance.

 

But it's not, we by example get a no call out discount on our 'Boiler break down' insurance.

[Albion]

But it's not, we by example get a no call out discount on our 'Boiler break down' insurance.

 

It is an insurance, but with no 'no claims discount', and you have the choice to purchase or not as you know the conditions before you purchase. I do though agree entirely that it would be much better if there were a NCD as this would encourage sensible use and reward those that ran a well maintained set up.

Roger