heating a Dutch Barge

[airborne]

Hi All ,

I know there are many threads regarding the heating systems on boats , and everyone seems to have their own preferences and ideas . The question I would like to ask is this with the price of red diesel rising , I think will make certain boat owners possibly look at other forms of heating !I seem to remember reading somewhere of more fuel / economically efficient stoves / boilers coming onto the market . Can any member advise me what would be a good , reiable and efficient system to use on a Dutch Barge approx , length 16m x beam 3.5m . I would only be using it for semi livaboard / cruising for holidays and weekends ?

All advice appreciated.

 

ATB Mike

[mrsmelly]

Hi All ,

I know there are many threads regarding the heating systems on boats , and everyone seems to have their own preferences and ideas . The question I would like to ask is this with the price of red diesel rising , I think will make certain boat owners possibly look at other forms of heating !I seem to remember reading somewhere of more fuel / economically efficient stoves / boilers coming onto the market . Can any member advise me what would be a good , reiable and efficient system to use on a Dutch Barge approx , length 16m x beam 3.5m . I would only be using it for semi livaboard / cruising for holidays and weekends ?

All advice appreciated.

 

ATB Mike

Solid fuel stove is the way to go. A good dry heat, can be banked down to stay light for many hours, much cheaper than diesel to run especialy if you find your own wood no electric needed !!. Squirrels are fantastic but I have a thing called a Masport Fatso on this boat, it gives 4kw shut down and anything up to 12 kw when built up. Im too bloody ot at the mo but aint that better than too cold, not arrf........

[Guest]

I too think in the current climes a multi fuel/wood burner would be the way to go - plus I would supplement it with a back boiler to drive some rads in the rest of the boat.

 

 

 

ed to clarify I didn't mean something that just burns wood.

Edited November 22, 2011 by MJG

[Robbo]

I know there are many threads regarding the heating systems on boats , and everyone seems to have their own preferences and ideas . The question I would like to ask is this with the price of red diesel rising , I think will make certain boat owners possibly look at other forms of heating !I seem to remember reading somewhere of more fuel / economically efficient stoves / boilers coming onto the market . Can any member advise me what would be a good , reiable and efficient system to use on a Dutch Barge approx , length 16m x beam 3.5m . I would only be using it for semi livaboard / cruising for holidays and weekends ?

 

To be honest I can think of three heating methods, solid fuel, oil and gas, gas is expensive, solid fuel has the real fire feel but isn't for everyone with the dust and feeding of the amount of fuel (only you can decide). If you like the diesel/oil route, and you have the ability to have a tank larger than 500litres then you can get kerosene delivered. Drip fed stoves like the Reflex Lockgate are reliable and don't require electric.

[Phil Ambrose]

Just a question, Mrsmelly mentions "good dry heat" so what is wet heat?

[ditchcrawler]

Just a question, Mrsmelly mentions "good dry heat" so what is wet heat?

An open gas flame with no flue

[Pretty Funked Up]

so what is wet heat?

 

steam

[Paringa]

I know of several barge owners me included that are very happy with these...

 

http://oilstoves.co.uk/appres.php?select=Boilers&select3=All&select2=Oil&select4=All&Submit=+++++Search+Shop+++++

 

And a nice solid fuel stove although not common on barges is a great addition...

Edited November 22, 2011 by Paringa

[GUMPY]

Ok mine is a british barge but the same rules apply on heating

 

Drip feed oil stoves work well but are expensive to run if on 24/7 I removed my old dutch and fitted a charnwood county multi fuel stove.

 

Diesel heaters like webasto etc can be unreliable if not fitted and maintained properly.

 

Pressure jet boilers are really the way to go if you don't want the "mess" of a multi fuel stove, Mikuni have just released a new one that is very compact and if there previous offerings are anything to go by will be reliable.

 

 

We now run the Charnwood 24/7 in the winter it heats the living room and also the back of the boat by convection. In the morning or if its really cold we put the mikuni boiler on that gives background heat to the whole boat. We also have a drip feed stove at the back of the barge but that only ever goes on if the temp is below -3C.

 

 

So all in all a solid fuel stove with some form of background central heating is the way I would go.

[mrsmelly]

Just a question, Mrsmelly mentions "good dry heat" so what is wet heat?

 

Gas........

[blackrose]

If you do go for a solid fuel stove on a Dutch barge as your main form of heating, you might need a slightly bigger output stove than those usually used on narrow boats. I went for the Morso Panther which has a maximum 8kw output. It has a 7000btu backboiler which heats 2 radiators - one in the bathroom behind, and one in the bedroom down the corridor.

 

 

If the outside temperature is above about 10 deg C then to be honest my stove is too hot and I use an alternative form of heating on mild autumn nights or in spring, but when it's colder or sub-zero outside it's brilliant.

 

I think if I were fitting a stove again I might go for the newer Morso Squirrel which puts out about 6kw.

 

It's wise to have a couple of different heating systems onboard.

Edited November 22, 2011 by blackrose

[airborne]

Hi All ,

Once again many thanks for all your replies and advice , and I must admit it seems the general consensus to have two heating systems for back up purposes !

Can I just pick your brains again as I have read on the forums regarding the ALDE 3010 powered by electric or gas (propane), are you allowed this on a boat ? But the ALDE is supposed to be a really good / efficient system .It states that a 6kg bottle should last all weekend in a normal British climate (is this economical) ?

Then the PJ-230VAC bubble boiler (Paringa has one )from Harworth Heating Ltd, which runs on red diesel or kerosene

Any ideas which of these is best regarding quality,price, how meconomical ot run etc

Thanks All

 

Mike

[Grace and Favour]

Like Blackrose we have a widebeam - - (18m x 3.8m) - but use a Morso Squirrel (1410) (4.5Kw) - it stays in 24/7 during winter, and keeps all areas of our boat more than warm enough

 

I've just looked back at my records - in the depths of last winter - (December - January) - we kept our stove running 24/7, and used 50Kg (2 x 25Kg bags) of Supertherm briquettes per week (£19:80 per week)

 

And we were toasty

 

 

We also have a Webasto (9Kw!!), feeding 5 radiators - but have only used it for a total of 12 hours (just to prove to ourselves that it still works!)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to add running costs

Edited November 22, 2011 by Grace & Favour

[Chris Pink]

.It states that a 6kg bottle should last all weekend in a normal British climate (is this economical) ?

 

 

Mike

 

 

No. Not at all that's around £10 a day. 13kg a week is normal if it's not too cold for a gas boiler. Mind the way coal is going that's not as out there as it once was.

[nbfiresprite]

Hi All ,

Once again many thanks for all your replies and advice , and I must admit it seems the general consensus to have two heating systems for back up purposes !

Can I just pick your brains again as I have read on the forums regarding the ALDE 3010 powered by electric or gas (propane), are you allowed this on a boat ? But the ALDE is supposed to be a really good / efficient system .It states that a 6kg bottle should last all weekend in a normal British climate (is this economical) ?

Then the PJ-230VAC bubble boiler (Paringa has one )from Harworth Heating Ltd, which runs on red diesel or kerosene

Any ideas which of these is best regarding quality,price, how meconomical ot run etc

Thanks All

 

Mike

 

Last winter the boat next to me was using two 13kg bottles a week to power his Alde. So that's your answer.

The system is ok for hire-boat's and the weekenders. To use it for a live-aboard, You need your numbers to come up.

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

[Mike C]

Hi All ,

I know there are many threads regarding the heating systems on boats , and everyone seems to have their own preferences and ideas . The question I would like to ask is this with the price of red diesel rising , I think will make certain boat owners possibly look at other forms of heating !I seem to remember reading somewhere of more fuel / economically efficient stoves / boilers coming onto the market . Can any member advise me what would be a good , reiable and efficient system to use on a Dutch Barge approx , length 16m x beam 3.5m . I would only be using it for semi livaboard / cruising for holidays and weekends ?

All advice appreciated.

 

ATB Mike

 

We have a 240v ac powered gas oil domestic house boiler and have run it for 15 yrs on our English barge which we live on. It is very reliable, its is quiet and very efficient. As a domestic appliance the spares are cheep (none needed so far) and at 28KW (yes that high !) the boiler cycle is low/short and the with no adverse effects on the boiler from the short cycle. The water jacket of the household domestic boiler system holds 3 gallons and so the water pump runs it round the rads nicely bvetween heating bursts. I spent a great deal of time looking at various options and have been paid to explore very many alternatives for clients but if you are living aboard and have the space to house it in the engine room then it is a great option. Our unit runs happily on a non sine wave inverter or generator ....or hook up on the occasions that it is available to us. It is not 240v power hungry due to the duty cycles that it operates.

Boiler such as this are availale from loads of places including your local builder merchant at about £600-£700 last time I looked.

[Guest]

Last winter the boat next to me was using two 13kg bottles a week to power his Alde. So that's your answer.

The system is ok for hire-boat's and the weekenders. To use it for a live-aboard, You need your numbers to come up.

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

 

Spot on-

 

We hired Moira from Ashby boat co. in Febuary 2010 - it was bloody cold, the boat had Alde boiler gas powered central heating. We were toasty warm the whole week -

 

However in the process we hammered at least 2.5 13kg bottles, they knew we would mind and made sure we had sufficient gas on board though.

[Chris Pink]

We have a 240v ac powered gas oil domestic house boiler and have run it for 15 yrs on our English barge which we live on. It is very reliable, its is quiet and very efficient. As a domestic appliance the spares are cheep (none needed so far) and at 28KW (yes that high !) the boiler cycle is low/short and the with no adverse effects on the boiler from the short cycle. The water jacket of the household domestic boiler system holds 3 gallons and so the water pump runs it round the rads nicely bvetween heating bursts. I spent a great deal of time looking at various options and have been paid to explore very many alternatives for clients but if you are living aboard and have the space to house it in the engine room then it is a great option. Our unit runs happily on a non sine wave inverter or generator ....or hook up on the occasions that it is available to us. It is not 240v power hungry due to the duty cycles that it operates.

Boiler such as this are availale from loads of places including your local builder merchant at about £600-£700 last time I looked.

 

What's the running cost in gas oil of this system?

[airborne]

Hi

All of your answers to this query are interesting and gives me much food for thought, but after anylising the pros and cons I am leaning towards what Mike C has installed , a gas / oilpowered domestic house boiler obviously , if you had the room .A bit confusion here , is that the same or similar to the bubble boiler from Harworth Heating Ltd ?

And if anyone has one of these installed can you give me some facts and figures feedback please or alternatively regarding the domestic house boiler , any recomendations which make or model ?

thanks for all of your help

 

Mike

[Phoenix_V]

Last winter the boat next to me was using two 13kg bottles a week to power his Alde. So that's your answer.

The system is ok for hire-boat's and the weekenders. To use it for a live-aboard, You need your numbers to come up.

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

Ah yes but as a back up it's more reliable than diesel

[Mike C]

Hi

All of your answers to this query are interesting and gives me much food for thought, but after anylising the pros and cons I am leaning towards what Mike C has installed , a gas / oilpowered domestic house boiler obviously , if you had the room .A bit confusion here , is that the same or similar to the bubble boiler from Harworth Heating Ltd ?

And if anyone has one of these installed can you give me some facts and figures feedback please or alternatively regarding the domestic house boiler , any recomendations which make or model ?

thanks for all of your help

 

Mike

 

The type we have is reasonably similar to the second one down link

 

What's the running cost in gas oil of this system?

 

Its a large barge, with 3 young kids and generally my wife or I aboard during the day. We burn 25-30 gls or so per month. The boiler is also used to heat two colorifiers (1st feeds 2nd) giving a combined hot water capacity of 40gl used for 2 kids baths, 3 showers and the washing mashine and dishwasher per day - we carry and use 700 gals of fresh water /week. so we are not being efficient, but the boiler is effiecient in the amount of heat per gl fuel etc. boiler details

Edited November 23, 2011 by Mike C

[flatplane8]

We have a British barge and use an Alde 3010 as central heating, it does have an electric element so that can be useful if plugged into shore power. We chose the Alde over a pressure jet diesel as its quiet, maintenence free and uses very little power when running, which is good for battery life. We carry 4 19Kg gas bottles, so that makes it a bit easier than a typical narrowboat.

 

Like all fossil fuels this would be expensive if run all the time, so its mainly used for warming the boat up. We have a very small stove (3Kw) that we run on wood briquettes, and this is the main form of heat if we're onboard for any length of time (evenings and weekends.

 

I would say that pressure jet diesel would be the most efficient for regular use, but it depends what your requirements are.

Edited November 23, 2011 by flatplane8

[Phil Ambrose]

An open gas flame with no flue

That sounds like a very dodgy way to heat a boat, suicidal even.

 

Phil

 

Gas........

 

As in heating the boat by leaving the cooker on?

[Phil Ambrose]

Last winter the boat next to me was using two 13kg bottles a week to power his Alde. So that's your answer.

The system is ok for hire-boat's and the weekenders. To use it for a live-aboard, You need your numbers to come up.

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

 

We have an Ellis boiler and yes during the cold snap we were using 2 X 13kg of propane, but talking to others on our marina cost for the year did not come out too badly against those running solid fuel. I also have the bonus of no sacks of coal to worry about, no buckets of ash, no hours spent chainsawing nor chopping logs and no dust in the boat. We have had solid fuel in the past when we lived ashore and though I agree a solid fuel fire is nice to watch, a gas boiler does just as an effective job but with the bonus of instant control.

 

Phil

[nbfiresprite]

We have an Ellis boiler and yes during the cold snap we were using 2 X 13kg of propane, but talking to others on our marina cost for the year did not come out too badly against those running solid fuel. I also have the bonus of no sacks of coal to worry about, no buckets of ash, no hours spent chainsawing nor chopping logs and no dust in the boat. We have had solid fuel in the past when we lived ashore and though I agree a solid fuel fire is nice to watch, a gas boiler does just as an effective job but with the bonus of instant control.

 

Phil

Last winter, I was using 1 sack (25Kg) Phurnacite (£10.50) per week heating a 48ft narrowboat overnight in week and 24hrs at the weekend.

Over a normal winter I use half a sack per week. The 40ft narrowboat next to me using gas 2 x 13kg bottles (£52) per week.

Over the month last winter Monthly my cost £42, The gas boat (£204). Using Mult-fuel saving £162 per month. I have better use for that.

Last winter the marina run out of gas, It was three weeks before anymore arrived. People with gas heating traveled miles trying to find gas.

At least with the mult-fuel you can burn anything.

 

 

Firesprite

 

In the office