What shell for first time fit out?

[Doorman]

I looked at second hand, but if what you require means gutting and starting again, a second hand boat will be more work, cost more and have less resail value than a sailaway.

 

That, by experience, is exactly what we found out!

 

Totally agree.

 

Mike

[Gazboatman]

I looked at second hand, but if what you require means gutting and starting again, a second hand boat will be more work, cost more and have less resail value than a sailaway.

Agreed.

 

I payed £11.500 for an old 50 ft springer with views on completly gutting the interior and starting from scratch. I'm hoping £2k should be enough to spend on re-doing the inside. Not too bothered about the work involved as there is 3 of us and we all have various building backgrounds.

 

Should be a good project.

[Ally]

XR&D would do you a good basic sailaway, good hulls to the spec of your requirement. Honest guys and good builders.

[Neil2]

No-one picked up my point about the RCD but as the discussion has moved on to the merits of refitting a secondhand boat I thought it was worth another mention.

 

As I understand it if refitting an existing boat all you have to worry about is complying with the BSS whenever the cert is up for renewal. I guess a wise owner would have the boat inspected on completion, or at least consult an examiner at the design stage.

 

If you start with a sailaway or a basic hull, there's what seems to me to be some fairly weighty requirements on making sure stuff complies and preparing instruction manuals which a professional builder would be quite familiar with but not the average amateur.

 

The get out is you only have to worry about RCD if the vessel is sold within five years of "completion" whatever that means.

 

Ok I guess most folk taking on such a project would have no immediate intention of selling, especially if it's for living aboard, but the OP admitted he's likely to get things wrong, and I wonder how many have fitted out a boat and then thought they could do a much better job next time. If you were buying a sailaway on the basis that its resale value would be higher then clearly the RCD is a factor.

 

Admittedly I've no experience in these matters, it may be that complying with the RCD is no big deal but no-one has said so yet.

 

Based on what little I've learned so far I think I would start with an existing boat.

[WotEver]

The first boat has a Reeves (I dont think they are trading any more...

My understanding is that the sons have floated a new company; Reeves Boatbuilders Ltd, but their website only lists a couple of mobile phone numbers at present, so it's quite possible that it's a company in name only.

 

Given the chance I'd love to buy a shell from them because I'm a sentimental old fool and I hugely admire the ethos of Graham and his brother losing their houses rather than leave any customer or supplier out of pocket. Plus they made good shells.

 

Tony

[ChrisPy]

I would buy a foamed sailaway and do the lining myself. In the overall scheme of things the lining is not a large job, is a good opportunity to get your hand in, and allows you to plan where to have joints, provision for bulkheads, conduits, hidden pipes, etc.

Less stressful than having to specify all your electrics and plumbing on paper before you have a chance to occupy the boat and imagine how you will use the space.

To save on handling I arranged for my supplier (Liverpool) to supply, and leave in the boat, sufficient ply of the correct quality for lining, bulkheads, and ceiling if necessary. Their trade price plus mark-up was no more than me buying direct.

[dor]

The get out is you only have to worry about RCD if the vessel is sold within five years of "completion" whatever that means.

 

Ok I guess most folk taking on such a project would have no immediate intention of selling, especially if it's for living aboard, but the OP admitted he's likely to get things wrong, and I wonder how many have fitted out a boat and then thought they could do a much better job next time. If you were buying a sailaway on the basis that its resale value would be higher then clearly the RCD is a factor.

 

Even if you think you have no intention of selling the boat within five years, I would still get the full RCD. Firstly, no one can predict the future; your circumstances might change and you need to sell the boat. Secondly, even if you sell it after five years, a buyer will be rather dubious of a boat that wasn't apparently build to RCD standards, even if it was. In a few more years the vast majority of boats under 15 years old will have the RCD done. If it hasn't, it will affect its value.

 

The RCD is not difficult to comply with. There are people around who will advise you and complete the neccessary paperwork for you for a few hundred pounds. Money very well spent.

 

Some builders and brokers selling sailaways will also provide a full independent hull survey which is worth having. When I did my sailaway the shell was built for me. I visited the fabricator unannounced two or three times a week and took lots of photos. The same with the builder who was doing the sailaway bit. If they don't want you checking up then ask yourself why.

 

Take lots of photos while you are fitting out as well. Not just to provide a record of your work, but it is invaluable to have pictures of where the cables are and where the ribs, battens etc are under the lining when you are halfway through.

[Nine of Hearts]

I would buy a foamed sailaway and do the lining myself. In the overall scheme of things the lining is not a large job, is a good opportunity to get your hand in, and allows you to plan where to have joints, provision for bulkheads, conduits, hidden pipes, etc.

Less stressful than having to specify all your electrics and plumbing on paper before you have a chance to occupy the boat and imagine how you will use the space.

To save on handling I arranged for my supplier (Liverpool) to supply, and leave in the boat, sufficient ply of the correct quality for lining, bulkheads, and ceiling if necessary. Their trade price plus mark-up was no more than me buying direct.

 

This sounds like sensible advice to me. I started with a lined sailaway, and I specified no wiring as I didn't trust them to put it in the right places. This isn't knocking LB (my shell manufacturer) particularly, but I've never found anyone who will do a job as instructed, no matter how good your drawings are. So I ended up practically having to de-line my sailaway to get the wiring in.

[Lesd]

We are currently in the process of having on our second boat fitted out by Barnowl Narrowboats.

 

The first boat has a Reeves (I dont think they are trading any more)shell and the current hull is by Lambon Boats. We are pleased with the speed, price, quality and flexibilty of Lambon(they built what we wanted not the take it or leave attitude some builders have).

 

It would do no harm to ask Lambon for a quote and Barnowl will probably do a fitout to the level you want. Have a look at our blog and decide for yourself.

 

http://nbyarwood.blogspot.com/

 

We have a bespoke widebeam shell that Steve Lambon build just over 4 years ago. I like the shell very much so Id agree Lambon are worth a look.

What is the tie up between Barnowl and Daddys boats on the fitting out side ?

[Trilby Tim]

For what its worth, I'd also recommend Paul Widdowson. He built mine a few years ago, middle of the road in terms of price, but I'd say the quality is excellent. Also a nice and straightforward guy.

[sebrof]

If you were fitting out your 1st steel narrowboat and had some experience but never done a full fit out would you buy a decent sailaway or a cheaper sailaway knowing that you are bound to make mistakes?

This boat would be to live on and cruise the system.

IM thinking a cheap shell being from Collingwood.

More a case of function over visual appeal.

 

One day, more than likely, you will have to sell it.

 

You will then find that looks are very important. And when it comes to things that people have made, beauty is more than skin deep. What looks good, often is good, because good design usually results in something that is pleasing to the eye.

 

One has only to consider the origin of species, and reflect on the fact that only the best survive, to realise that in Nature, what works best usually looks damn good too.

 

There are exceptions, of course. No walrus has ever won Miss World, and neither has a young, pouting, manatee. But in general, Nature's offspring are beautiful, whether we are talking of willows, gazelles, the London Plane, or a maidenfly.

 

So don't sacrifice form on the altar of function. A good-looking boat will repay it's owner in several ways: pride of ownership; the admiration of passers-by (don't under-estimate the feel-good factor of being told your boat looks good); and, of course, a quicker sale.

[David Mack]

If you were fitting out your 1st steel narrowboat and had some experience but never done a full fit out would you buy a decent sailaway or a cheaper sailaway knowing that you are bound to make mistakes?

This boat would be to live on and cruise the system.

IM thinking a cheap shell being from Collingwood.

More a case of function over visual appeal.

 

Nobody has made the point that if this is a boat you are buying and fitting out to keep, you should buy the best shell you can afford, and perhaps economise on some of the equipment or fitout. In later years you can always upgrade equipment or refit some of the internals, but if you buy a poor quality shell you are stuck with it for good.

 

David

[dave moore]

Hi

 

I can't agree more with the previous post. Colour schemes and internal fit outs can be changed relatively easily, the shell rather less so unless you have fabricating skills or deep pockets! Much depends on your preferred shell style. If I can help or advise further, PM me for contact details.

 

Good luck.

 

Dave

[Doorman]

Take lots of photos while you are fitting out as well. Not just to provide a record of your work, but it is invaluable to have pictures of where the cables are and where the ribs, battens etc are under the lining when you are halfway through.

 

Great advice and well worth taking.

 

We did the same with our boat builders and the information gleaned is priceless for future reference.

 

Mike

[George Seward]

Colecraft for me everytime, well once actually 10 years ago. The boat was true and square making bulkheads easy to make from templates. All roof and side strengtheners were perfectly fitted, making the lineout easy etc etc. I would definitely have it spray lined by a reputable company and have the engine installed though. Finally, they were reasonably priced and stuck to the quote. Incidentally they manufactured their first dutch barge earlier this year, I spoke to the owner when passing it was gorgeous. If he's on here, put some photo's up, it was a looker.

[no connection to colecraft]

Edited November 22, 2011 by George Seward

[bargemast]

Colecraft for me everytime, well once actually 10 years ago. The boat was true and square making bulkheads easy to make from templates. All roof and side strengtheners were perfectly fitted, making the lineout easy etc etc. I would definitely have it spray lined by a reputable company and have the engine installed though. Finally, they were reasonably priced and stuck to the quote. Incidentally they manufactured their first dutch barge earlier this year, I spoke to the owner when passing it was gorgeous. If he's on here, put some photo's up, it was a looker.

[no connection to colecraft]

 

 

I have to agree with you, stopped by to have a look at a hull that pulled my eyes when I drove by the Colecraft yard, I turned around and could only make 1 photo of this good looking luxemotor hull, as my empty batteries wouldn't let me make more.

 

 

Peter.

[W-G Crew]

Hello There,

 

I agree with those that support the view a good shell makes for a good boat. No matter how well your fit out is and however unique your fittings. Its a boat and the hull is the most important aspect to get right. I have had the opportunity to see boats being fitted out alongside each other. These include several Alexander shells, Bluewater, RLL, Reeves and Lambon. On another occasion an Alexander and a Liverpool Boat and Aqualine.

 

IMHO the Alexander is by far the better built shell, great welding, no ripples, just a pride in the work for 30+ years. Thats why I bought one. Buying a shell is costly, therefore well worth a visit to Stourport and check out Jim,s Shells. I think it was worth it.

 

Mal

[Spacebar]

Many thanks for the replies everyone it really has helped.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the more expensive Josher bow style sailaways sold by Cheshire Narrowboats made by a builder called Mike Christian?

The sales process of this firm appeals to me.

thanks.

[Cosmic]

Many thanks for the replies everyone it really has helped.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the more expensive Josher bow style sailaways sold by Cheshire Narrowboats made by a builder called Mike Christian?

The sales process of this firm appeals to me.

thanks.

That's exactly what I've got.

 

I ordered my boat at the start of 2010, when boat builders seemed to be going under pretty much every week, so the idea of not handing over more than £1000 until the boat was ready was very appealing. I found him very easy to deal with - he seemed quite happy to make minor changes to the standard spec as things went along.

 

The Mike Christian shells are built by Tim Tyler/Jonathan Wilson, who are a well respected firm, and I've had lots of compliments about the look and construction of the hull.

 

Overall, I was extremely happy with my boat. There are only two things I would have changed. The first is that I would have asked for serious locks to be fitted to all the doors/hatches (I was burgled a few months after picking it up, while it still had the tiny hasp and staple he'd fitted). Also, he said it would have "some" diesel in the tank - it might be worth asking for "some more" diesel

[Doorman]

 

That's exactly what I've got.

The Mike Christian shells are built by Tim Tyler/Jonathan Wilson, who are a well respected firm, and I've had lots of compliments about the look and construction of the hull.

 

 

We have a neighbour on our Marina who has recently completed fitting out a sailaway hull (to a very high standard) that was built by Tyler/Wilson. Apparently, the name Mike Christian, with regard to boat builders, is fictional.

 

The only person that I know who's called Mike Christian is me and when we were in the market for a new boat, I used to get some funny remarks from the various boat builders upon enquiry.

 

Mike Christian

Edited November 28, 2011 by Doorman