W-G Crew

Thank you all, I suspect the wiring is correct in that we have not made any alterations at all and the system has worked well until now. The Phoenix Multiplus software and electronics does have odd moments. For example using the carpet cleaner can either trip the Dometic travelpower generator or set the state of charge to 100%. Whilst I accept in theory the load comes from the alternator (not the charger) or batteries when the DC alternator is working. This is never the case in practice . If we were to unplug the shorepower and cruise straight out of a marina the BMV would show a minimum of 4 amps most likely a lot more for the first 20 mins of cruising. Over the years I have tested the loads from most of our appliances and the fridge and freezer take around six amps if on together. As mentioned the BMV shows +/- loads the alternators show up to +120 ah. I cannot confirm that current is going out, I did do all the tests you (nicknorman) suggested yesterday there did not seem to be any significant load being registered in either direction by the BMV. I suspect the shunt, wiring and PCB attached may have suffered from damp/cold weather. Also there is supposedly a fuse in the system which I shall have to trace and check. Which I will do when i have borrowed a clamp meter on our return to the boat. Thank you all again Malcolm

Thank You Robbo and nicknorman, The problem is that the BMV should read a considerable number of Amp Hours when the DC alternator is running, even when batteries are fully charged as there is always a load from a fridge freezer lights etc. When the batteries are full 6 amps is usual normally after 12 hours or overnight the alternator will put in 80 plus amps. So after a months inactivity over Christmas with a very light drain the BMV should show the alternator input. i will test the batteries with a meter on my next visit I have not changed the battery capacity in the BMV I have had the Inverter on in charger only mode and this keeps the batteries topped up but uses quite a lot of electricity to do so and is not good for the batteries left too long so I alternate the practice. Nicknorman your second paragrapgh highlights the problem in a nutshell, the BMV doesnt show amps going into the batteries from either alternator in circumstances you describe I am aware of the tail current and the effect this has on the Victron electronics and the BMV. Hope this clarifies my initial post somewhat Malcolm

We have a Victron Phoenix Multiplus 12v/3000 inverter charger, connected to 5 AGM batteries (675ah) monitored by the BMV 602. For the last five years it has worked very well. Normally whilst cruising the domestic bank of batteries is charged up by the large DC alternator (we have a smaller DC alternator for the starter batteries and an AC alternator with a Dometic travelpower). We normaly lose about 18% charge overnight and the DC alternator begins putting in about 80 ah's dropping to about 16 after 4 or 5 hours cruising. It drops lower slowly and if it remains constant for about 15 mins it is considered full (although i know this is not strictly true). I occasionally sync the BMV, once I now the batteries are as charged as they can be, usually when on shorepower and no real load. Occasionaly whilst running AC appliances (washing machine, or carpet sweeper) the Amp/hour rate goes up by 10 to 15 % the multiplus taking the extra energy from the AC alternator. This becomes negligble fairly quickly. Our problem now appears to be that the BMV does not read the output from the alternator. In winter we normally fully charge the batteries and leave some greenhouse heaters in the boat connected to the shorepower. The battery bank has very little load so we visit once a month to run the engine and charge up the batteries amongst other maintenance tasks. On our recent visit the BMV state of charge showed 74% initially but as soon as I started the engine the display changed to 100% in seconds. The rate of charge/discharge showed +3 ah dropping quickly to +1ah not the +80 plus ah as expected and normal. I considered that the alternator wasnt working but it appeared to be doing so, I started up the travelpower and put a load on the AC system and that should have had an impact on the BMV but didnt. I dont think either alternator has failed so my thoughts are that the BMV must have reset itself or shorted out somehow. It later showed a minus value as some of the lights were on in the boat. All indicators show that the BMV is not reading any input. The values held in the memory of the BMV show the same as previously I.E. the total AMP Hours of the battery bank. It seems like the BMV is not reading the input from the alternators. A blown fuse or similar is what we are hoping is the solution but where to look is our problem before we call in a Victron trained engineer This year the boat has seemed colder but we have used the same regime in other marinas. Any thoughts gratefully accepted regards Malcolm & Anne

I would like to wish my fellow candidates well, just not too well! You may notice I don’t contribute to this forum often, I don’t have a blog, I’m not on facebook or twitter but I would like to explain my position to you simply. I am an independent boater, who believes that the Canal & River Trust Council could become a stalking horse for the Trust, in that should things go well the Trust gets the credit, conversely the Council could be blamed for bad advice or guidance. Boating experience is required on the Council insofar as we will represent boaters. The skills required for the Council itself are more to do with, researching facts, analysing options based on accurate information, assessing competing perspectives on behalf of boaters and negotiation. Anecdotal tales and long-winded arguments will not get very far. I was a leader and manager of an intelligence analysis unit with a remit to protect the critical national infrastructure. Whilst I managed my own budget, for national projects and services I had to apply for funds. I also had to negotiate for other resources aimed at protecting the public. I was successful in the majority of cases, mainly due to correct information and its presentation with a thorough review of costs. Persistence also had a lot to do with it. To give an example of how I would translate these skills to the Council. Most of you will have seen the press release from DEFRA Press Release outlining the extra funding for the trust. Many have heralded this as good news and in the current climate maybe it is. However the extra ten million is based upon satisfactory performance measures in three areas. Principal Assets Towpath Conditions River Flood Management “Principal assets” is not defined; irrespective of being a boater’s representative I would have demanded a performance target to include the maintenance of navigable waterways. These measures have been agreed prior to the Council being elected and are what we will have to work with. Nevertheless I will be negotiating for this to be a performance target. Towpath conditions are important but I would have thought “Rivers & Canals” would be the principal concern of The Canal & River Trust. Not to have performance targets in this area cannot be right. One must hope that they are included in the full breakdown of the agreement (under principal assets perhaps) I will be making sure, elected or not. I mentioned I don’t have a blog or contribute to forums. I do however read many of the informative ones. Boater’s opinions are as widespread as their knowledge. Many views are represented by particular organisations; others are boaters whose interests coalesce. This has made the current managements job all too easy in that boaters don’t speak with a unified voice. As we will have four elected boaters representatives on the Council it would be folly not to speak as one, we are in a minority anyhow so to achieve our goals we have to unite, otherwise we will be back to a talking shop. For those who wish to know more about me, visit our website. "Wicked Game" You can contact me on C & RT matters either via the website or the e-mail crew@wicked-game.co.uk

Well this what we did! My wife and I considered buying a boat for 10 years or so, hiring many and visiting boatyards and shows. Four years ago we made the decision and put a deposit on a boat in January 2009. Our visits to look at boats (an excellent pastime for myself) eventually solidified into three frontrunners :- Braidibar, Graham Edgson of Norton Canes Jim Sparkes of Alexander Boats with a Kingsground fit out. On the way we had looked at Barnowl, Stoke Boats, Wharfhouse Narrowboats, RLL, Barry Hawkins, Liverpool Boats and a few others. We believed that the essence of a good boat is the shell for without a good shell even the best fit-out will leave you with a poor boat. Our needs are like most couples and fitted nicely into a standard 60 foot boat, we did want quality and reliability. We don't need our builder to fit an Aga or some other fashionable unique selling point which we could discuss with other boaters at length. We wanted a fully equipped well founded boat. We have noted to our despair that many of the best in show boats do have fixtures that stand out but not necessarily useful. To begin with we looked at shells by many of the builders, examined the build quality, welding, symmetry and ripples in the sides as well as the experience, care and most of all pride in the workmanship. I can weld but not to any professional standard however it does not take too much skill to spot a good weld. The best advice is to view shells alongside each other from different builders. Not an easy task most experienced boaters would suggest. Over time however we saw an Alexander shell alongside an RLL, a Reeves, a Lambon a Bluewater and a nondescript Polish boat. Without a shadow of doubt anyone looking at the boats in this way would choose the Alexander every time. Whilst we also looked at other shells including the very good Tim Tyler and excellent Norton Canes we decided upon an Alexander Shell and at the time Jim was working alongside Kingsground so we decided that as the KG fit out was excellent we would go for them. The only downside was the cost, most folks we spoke to said KG made good boats but expensive. We didn't want a boatman's cabin or a Gardner engine or a fancy pot bellied stove and the layout was fairly traditional so we didn't give KG so many problems and as such we think we paid a fair price. Sandhills and Fernwood are good boat fitters and Jim provides shells for both. The set up at KG did however persuade us although Fernwood probably (and I really mean probably) have the slight edge to KG in the fitted furniture and fixings but lift the covers and the engineering is not as well organised. It was really difficult to separate the last three on the shortlist the price was fairly similar. Graham at the time did not have the complete team in place and we thought that it might become too complicated. Braidibar are really great boats and they deliver on time (massive plus point which nearly made them our choice) but they use Tim Tyler shells and we had set our heart on an Alexander, They are even two hours closer to us than KG in Oxford. They also build in the water. So choice over we set up a payment schedule after which payment the boat at whatever stage is ours (how we would have recovered it is a moot point). Sixteen weeks was the build time from KG but it was more like 30. We stayed in many of the hotels in and around Oxford (cheap rates only) whilst the build was underway. Its crucial to visit regularly to both seek and give advice. A good boat builder will listen and take notice of your thoughts but if you're intent on putting all the heavy items along one side or to the bows or stern they may suggest that you revise your thoughts. it would be a bad owner who didn't think to ask why. So to get the best out of the boat building experience it is up to the prospective owner to research as much as he or she can in order to challenge the builder and keep him or her on their toes. Doing this remotely is not a good idea, neither is living in the workshop. Remember at all times although its a narrowboat most are bespoke so its not off the shelf therefore expect some difficulties. All in all remember to enjoy it, its a tremendous experience. Lessons learned:- We were lucky to complete our build in troubled times even KG felt the pinch Do your research, then do it again We missed some good builders notably Colecraft (see point two) Visit often and make sure they understand what you want draw pictures if necessary Set up a payment schedule the BMF has one but escrow sounds a good idea Don't use companies like Ben Harp we did contact them but glad it went no further Malcolm & Anne nb Wicked-Game

Hello There, I agree with those that support the view a good shell makes for a good boat. No matter how well your fit out is and however unique your fittings. Its a boat and the hull is the most important aspect to get right. I have had the opportunity to see boats being fitted out alongside each other. These include several Alexander shells, Bluewater, RLL, Reeves and Lambon. On another occasion an Alexander and a Liverpool Boat and Aqualine. IMHO the Alexander is by far the better built shell, great welding, no ripples, just a pride in the work for 30+ years. Thats why I bought one. Buying a shell is costly, therefore well worth a visit to Stourport and check out Jim,s Shells. I think it was worth it. Mal