illness

[stevesouthwest]

Please can anyone give me advise on my boat stove.I have recently bought a narrow boat with a wood, coal stove fitted.

It warms the boat beautifully,i have fitted a new smoke alarm, and a carbon monoxide alarm.

on two occasions i have woken in the morning with with a headache and general feeling of unwellness.

On a white sheet in the boat there appears to be small particales of a sooty black deposit.

The flue is clean, and the fire is cleaned before each use, the seals appear to be in good condition and dose not emitt smoke, althogh the bottom is left slightly ajar to enable the fire to draw, if closed completley the fire will go out.There is adequate ventelation,as it has been tested for its BSC and i have also left a small window open above the sleeping bunk.

Can anyone give me any advice on the matter,as i do like the stove as it warms the boat well and is handy for cooking and boiling water,or should i remove it and install a gas heating system.

[Guest]

You don't mention what your CO alarm is doing...

 

and where is it in relation to where the stove is and where you sleep.

[steelaway]

Please can anyone give me advise on my boat stove.I have recently bought a narrow boat with a wood, coal stove fitted.

It warms the boat beautifully,i have fitted a new smoke alarm, and a carbon monoxide alarm.

on two occasions i have woken in the morning with with a headache and general feeling of unwellness.

On a white sheet in the boat there appears to be small particales of a sooty black deposit.

The flue is clean, and the fire is cleaned before each use, the seals appear to be in good condition and dose not emitt smoke, althogh the bottom is left slightly ajar to enable the fire to draw, if closed completley the fire will go out.There is adequate ventelation,as it has been tested for its BSC and i have also left a small window open above the sleeping bunk.

Can anyone give me any advice on the matter,as i do like the stove as it warms the boat well and is handy for cooking and boiling water,or should i remove it and install a gas heating system.

 

 

 

 

Couple of things

 

Are you sleeping with your head lower than your feet.?

As any one spilt any diesel that could be in the bilges?

 

Alex

[alan_fincher]

Hello,

 

And Welcome!

 

It could be helpful if you gave some information about stove type, (make/model if known), flue size and length, etc.

 

Some pictures of the installation would be best.

 

From your description there is nothing one can obviously pick out that you are doing wrong, but if it may be making you feel unwell, you are of course quite correct to treat the situation seriously.

 

BTW: All solid fuel stoves will need some air going in at the bottom, or, as you say, they will go out. Because air should be being drawn in, by a gentle upward draught, no significant combustion fumes should be coming out the bootom/

[mrsmelly]

Please can anyone give me advise on my boat stove.I have recently bought a narrow boat with a wood, coal stove fitted.

It warms the boat beautifully,i have fitted a new smoke alarm, and a carbon monoxide alarm.

on two occasions i have woken in the morning with with a headache and general feeling of unwellness.

On a white sheet in the boat there appears to be small particales of a sooty black deposit.

The flue is clean, and the fire is cleaned before each use, the seals appear to be in good condition and dose not emitt smoke, althogh the bottom is left slightly ajar to enable the fire to draw, if closed completley the fire will go out.There is adequate ventelation,as it has been tested for its BSC and i have also left a small window open above the sleeping bunk.

Can anyone give me any advice on the matter,as i do like the stove as it warms the boat well and is handy for cooking and boiling water,or should i remove it and install a gas heating system.

 

It could be a number of reasons and nothing to do with the fire but i advise DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the stove until you have found out what your problem is YOU COULD EASILY DIE. Enough said I think.

[stevesouthwest]

The carbon dioxide alarm is flashing green every two minuates as per instructions in manual, it is fitted 300mm below the ceiling in sleeping bunk and away from mushroom vents,the boat is a cruiser stern so the engine is not inside the boat.

[14skipper]

It could be a number of reasons and nothing to do with the fire but i advise DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the stove until you have found out what your problem is YOU COULD EASILY DIE. Enough said I think.

Got to agree with this advise.

Also is there enough ventilation? l know its getting colder and the stove is for warmth but the stove needs to draw air from somewhere,are all the vents in boat uncovered ?

You could have a problem with not enough fresh air coming in to boat and stove is burning up the oxygen .

14Skipper

Edited November 6, 2011 by 14skipper

[mickspangle]

If the stove is the only thing that is going to potentially emit CO while you're asleep could you put it nearer to the stove? I'd be tempted to try it in different positions close to the stove if I suspected It was emitting CO

 

I'm guessing you've tested the CO alarm via the test button?

 

Not nagging...just want you to be safe!

[Guest]

The carbon dioxide alarm is flashing green every two minuates as per instructions in manual, it is fitted 300mm below the ceiling in sleeping bunk and away from mushroom vents,the boat is a cruiser stern so the engine is not inside the boat.

 

Unlikely to be CO poisoning assuming it is working correctly.

 

But you have obviously been concerned enough to post you would as already advised be wise to get the stove professionally checked before you use it again.

 

You might want to get one of these, I have just bought one for our boat -

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0030BEM0K

 

It not only warns you of dangerous CO levels but monitors and display maximum levels detected. It shows if levels detected are approaching dangerous levels.

[weeble]

Last year I inadvertanly bought some "normal" coal rather than smokeless, that turned out to be really dirty. One night with a short chimney fitted the boat filled with fumes blown in through an open window by strong winds. Fortunately this was before bedtime so no immediate danger. I gave away the rest of the coal and never had a problem since.

Don't know if any of this matches with your conditions, but might be another line of thought to consider.

[bizzard]

I assume that you don't feel ill when the stoves not alight?.bizzard

[stevesouthwest]

Thanks for all your replies, i shall move the carbon monoxide detector to the bow of the boat closer to the fire and increase the vent size from 40mm/100mm to 100mm/200mm in the bow doors and will now only use smokeless coal instead of the stuff supplied by the local garage.

[bizzard]

Thanks for all your replies, i shall move the carbon monoxide detector to the bow of the boat closer to the fire and increase the vent size from 40mm/100mm to 100mm/200mm in the bow doors and will now only use smokeless coal instead of the stuff supplied by the local garage.

When you open the stove door,do so very slowly as sudden opening sucks any smoke into the boat.

[CV32]

Unlikely to be CO poisoning assuming it is working correctly.

 

But you have obviously been concerned enough to post you would as already advised be wise to get the stove professionally checked before you use it again.

 

You might want to get one of these, I have just bought one for our boat -

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0030BEM0K

 

It not only warns you of dangerous CO levels but monitors and display maximum levels detected. It shows if levels detected are approaching dangerous levels.

 

I have one of those on my boat - a question for the safety experts on here, is a CO detector sufficient or do i also need to invest in a smoke detector as well ?

[Higgs]

I would advise that CO detecters be of the digital readout type. Last year mine went off and I was able to take it around the boat and follow the rising reading; very useful.

 

At the time I was amongst a large group of boats, all well stoked up and fires going. I'd fitted a skin fitting in the engine room and left it open in anticipation of fitting Mikuni. By the time I reached the engine room the CO was reading 150. It appeared that I was taking in the exhaust from other boats and blocking the hole cured the problem. Under some air condition I've noticed that chimney exhaust drops to the water surface and flow along it.

 

Ventilation is also very important.

[blackrose]

If the stove is the only thing that is going to potentially emit CO while you're asleep could you put it nearer to the stove? I'd be tempted to try it in different positions close to the stove if I suspected It was emitting CO

 

I'm guessing you've tested the CO alarm via the test button?

 

Not nagging...just want you to be safe!

 

I think it's probably likely to be a lack of ventilation rather than CO poinsoning. I've got quite a big stove in my quite big boat, but I've also woken up in the night when I haven't closed the stove down enough and let it draw too much with similar symptoms. With me it's a general feeling of groggyness. However, anytime it's happened it's also too hot in the boat so I think it's just a lack of fresh air. The CO alarm on the ceiling about 3m in front of the stove has a digital readout and it stays on zero. I also have another CO alarm in the corridor between the stove and bathroom.

 

Is it also too hot in the boat when this happens to you? (not you mickspangle - I mean the OP.) Make sure you close the stove down a bit more before going to bed. Also, a second CO alarm between the stove and your bed isn't a bad idea.

 

Edit: The BSS guidelines give recommendations for the area of non-closeable ventilation based on the kw consumption of oxygen burning appliances (gas stoves, gas water heaters, solid fuel stoves, etc) and also I think the number of people on board? Anyway, what the guidelines don't really take into account are the grilles, etc, used to cover the vents. These can effectively halve the area of low level vents for example. I think external brass mushrooms may also reduce the effective area of a 4" dia hole, especially if the domes are screwed down too much.

 

Also, next time you're using the vacuum cleaner give the holes in the ceiling under the mushroom vents a vacuum. Dust can build up on the internal grilles.

Edited November 6, 2011 by blackrose

[Guest]

is a CO detector sufficient

 

No

 

do i also need to invest in a smoke detector as well ?

 

Yes

Edited November 6, 2011 by MJG

[Chalky]

How old is the stove? Could you have a problem with paint being burned off the outside? It happened with mine when new and smelled horrible. Also have a look at the local conditions. On our permenent mooring we get a down draft that can stop the fumes rising properly and they end up rolling down the roof and into the mushroom vents. It doesn't happen else where. I also had problems last year where the flue seal on to the stove had deteriorated and this caused a problem. It was easily fixed with fire clay. Have a look round the stove and chimney for any gaps or problems where it looks iffy. If in doubt get someone in to examine it - it's cheaper than the alternative.

[blackrose]

How old is the stove? Could you have a problem with paint being burned off the outside? It happened with mine when new and smelled horrible.

 

Yes, that's true. I remember the blue haze inside the boat.

Edited November 6, 2011 by blackrose

[Ally]

we had soot on our bed a few times...we have a side hatch with top opener also at the side of the bed. We traced it eventually down to next doors stove when he used real coal, and it was finding it's way in through our top hatch gaps (not lined yet)

If you have a 'fire angel' co detector, they will send another out to you on loan to test yours against. They can also be put into 'sniffer' mode to sniff around your stove, but if it's not alarming, assuming it is functioning properly, then it's not co. I agree if your head is towards the stern, it could be that as your head may well be lower than your feet.....sleep the other way. Or, paint fumes if the stove is new. If you are new to boating it could just be you getting your 'sea legs' but first be sure the co detector works correctly. I doubt the soot is from your stove, and you did say you have the top of the window open, so i'll bet it's someone else's stove leaving the soot!

[Guest]

and will now only use smokeless coal instead of the stuff supplied by the local garage.

 

 

Which will save you a few bob in the process....most expensive place to buy fuel is your local garage.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Please can anyone give me advise on my boat stove.I have recently bought a narrow boat with a wood, coal stove fitted.

It warms the boat beautifully,i have fitted a new smoke alarm, and a carbon monoxide alarm.

on two occasions i have woken in the morning with with a headache and general feeling of unwellness.

On a white sheet in the boat there appears to be small particales of a sooty black deposit.

The flue is clean, and the fire is cleaned before each use, the seals appear to be in good condition and dose not emitt smoke, althogh the bottom is left slightly ajar to enable the fire to draw, if closed completley the fire will go out.There is adequate ventelation,as it has been tested for its BSC and i have also left a small window open above the sleeping bunk.

Can anyone give me any advice on the matter,as i do like the stove as it warms the boat well and is handy for cooking and boiling water,or should i remove it and install a gas heating system.

 

Get a doctor's appointment without any delay if the symptoms continue. Explain your lifestyle and the changes to the immediate environment, i.e. just installed a solid fuel stove

 

Whilst the symptoms are typical of CO and the signs of sooty black deposits are again strong indicators of CO, you would need any problem you may have confirming. It may be that these are nothing to do with CO, but critical for other reasons. There is a clue, but don't rely on it (!!!) do you feel better when you leave the boat. Do the symptoms come back when you return to the boat and use appliances.

 

CO can be identified in the bloodstream if the exposure is recent very easily, so don't hesitate, get to the docs double-quick if the problems persist.

 

IF you are confirmed as having been exposed to CO, you must get competent help to discover the source. The stove could be the source or it could be a red herring that only has a connection by burning more oxygen from available supplies thus exposing and magnifying any weakness in another appliance.

 

If any CO is being caused by the stove, get it fixed immediately. Stoves can and are used safely in 1000's of boats, but you have to manage the potential risks with care and keep a constant eye on things including the stove condition, the fuel condition, the wind conditions, etc. More info here - http://staysafe.boatsafetyscheme.com/solid-fuel-stoves-on-boats

 

Regards and good luck

 

Rob @ BSS Office

[Barry]

I have one of those on my boat - a question for the safety experts on here, is a CO detector sufficient or do i also need to invest in a smoke detector as well ?

 

 

No

 

 

 

Yes

 

Wot he said

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Which will save you a few bob in the process....most expensive place to buy fuel is your local garage.

 

Our Marina (BWML) charges £8.50 for 20kgs of smokeless (which doesnt burn well) whilst our local Petrol Station is £9.99 for 25kgs and burns beautifully.

 

So I'm saving the eqivalent of 63p (per 25kgs) and getting a better fire.

 

Maybe the Garage is subsidising the smokeless fuel by selling Diesel at £1.43 litre !!!!

[Guest]

Our Marina (BWML) charges £8.50 for 20kgs of smokeless (which doesnt burn well) whilst our local Petrol Station is £9.99 for 25kgs and burns beautifully.

 

So I'm saving the eqivalent of 63p (per 25kgs) and getting a better fire.

 

Maybe the Garage is subsidising the smokeless fuel by selling Diesel at £1.43 litre !!!!

 

We are currently getting huge sacks of wood - no idea of the actual weight for £2.50 from a local seller near home. Looking at the bags sold off the local petrol forecourt the equivalent volume would be around four times that.