boatmans hovel

[susanD]

Can any one tell me about a place on the side of the canal called the boatmans hovel? I have found out my4 times gt grandfather was murdered at the 'boatmans' hovel on the Fazely canal in 1847!

[Laurence Hogg]

This could be one of many places, do you have more specific information? There must still be police records to this in existence.

[alan_fincher]

If you have a date, you may be able to find details of an inquest or court proceedings in a local newspaper archive.

 

I have an ancestor who's death certificate showed "killed by the accidental bursting of a gun", and was able to find a lot of (albeit fairly gruesome!) detail in a local paper at the relevant county record office.

[susanD]

Thank-you both for your replies, sorry to have been a long time responding, I had trouble signing in! (thanks to Alnwick for help!)

I have the death cert.,- registed by the coroner. - I am booked into Bham Library on Thursday, will be looking for newspaper, coroners' reports etc. The death occured at 'The boatmans hovel near tindal bridge on the B'ham Fazely canal. Could it have been a pub or some sort of 'doss' house on the side of the canal? Just thought someone on here might know of such a place! This find has confirmed oral family history and work by previous cousins (now dead!)- so all very exciting! William was an agricultural labourer , rather fond of a drink, and at the time of his death lived in Bucknall End Castle Bromwich, and would go once a week to market on his horse, and return home almost senceless in the saddle!

The murderer was convicted of manslaughter and I would think, hanged.

Will let you know if I find more .

SusanD.

[pete harrison]

I have the death cert.,- registed by the coroner. - I am booked into Bham Library on Thursday, will be looking for newspaper, coroners' reports etc. The death occured at 'The boatmans hovel near tindal bridge on the B'ham Fazely canal. Could it have been a pub or some sort of 'doss' house on the side of the canal? Just thought someone on here might know of such a place!

Will let you know if I find more .

SusanD.

 

Whilst visiting Birmingham Library (presumably Birmingham Central Library ?) you may wish to visit Tindal Bridge as it is little more than a stones throw away (10 minutes walk). Although the original Tindal Bridge was replaced with a concrete version about 40 years ago you may get a feel for the area, although like the bridge it has changed considerably over the past few years.

[c c]

Can any one tell me about a place on the side of the canal called the boatmans hovel? I have found out my4 times gt grandfather was murdered at the 'boatmans' hovel on the Fazely canal in 1847!

Many accounts of the building and operating of the canals were written at a time when the description of the home beside the canal for a canal worker and his family as a "hovel", refers to what today might be a sought after bijou residence.

The mere fact that such an author could write suggests that they came from an educated priviliged background who would probably live in a substantial family house and could not resist reflecting in their journalism, their opinion, and those of their readers, of the poor who could not read or write.

[OldGoldy]

Whilst visiting Birmingham Library (presumably Birmingham Central Library ?) you may wish to visit Tindal Bridge as it is little more than a stones throw away (10 minutes walk). Although the original Tindal Bridge was replaced with a concrete version about 40 years ago you may get a feel for the area, although like the bridge it has changed considerably over the past few years.

 

Here, on King Edwards Road, adjacent to the NIA:-

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=king+edwards+road+birmingham+&hl=en&ll=52.479912,-1.913059&spn=0.001833,0.003648&sll=52.480016,-1.912994&sspn=0.003666,0.007296&vpsrc=6&z=18

[susanD]

Thanks, Yes, I did find Tindal bridge on Google maps, and may go to look afer the central library visit! The description of 'the boatmans hovel near Tindal bridge old Birmingham canal sides' is the description of the place the murder took place, reported I presume, by the police to the coroner.

SusanD

Edited September 5, 2011 by susanD

[David Mack]

Many accounts of the building and operating of the canals were written at a time when the description of the home beside the canal for a canal worker and his family as a "hovel", refers to what today might be a sought after bijou residence.

The mere fact that such an author could write suggests that they came from an educated priviliged background who would probably live in a substantial family house and could not resist reflecting in their journalism, their opinion, and those of their readers, of the poor who could not read or write.

 

Could "hovel" refer to a brick or timber hut used as a shelter by a lengthsman or lock keeper?

 

David

[Kez]

I don't know if it helps, but I remember that Samuel Coleridge burnt his shoes in a boatmans hovel at loch katrine; in that context it was a ferrymans hut I beleive, so a lengthsmans hut?

Or maybe something to do with the bridge itself?

[susanD]

Could "hovel" refer to a brick or timber hut used as a shelter by a lengthsman or lock keeper?

 

David

 

I now have found a newspaper report of the dicovery and apprehension of the murderer of my 4x gt grandad William Brown Apparently he was waiting in the 'hovel' for a lift back to Smethwick with a bargee friend.I quote - 'The hovel in question was built by the canal company as a shelter for boatmen who had to await their turn at the locks, but for several years past had been the skulking-place of a class of men known as 'rodneys,' a set of houseless, reckless fellows, who have no settled employment, who live by means of picking up anything by way of plunder which comes within their reachand when this is not to be had conviently render assistance to the boatmen.' Thanks so much to all who helped answer my queiry. - Carry on barging! Love Susan X

[alan_fincher]

'The hovel in question was built by the canal company as a shelter for boatmen who had to await their turn at the locks, but for several years past had been the skulking-place of a class of men known as 'rodneys,' a set of house-less, reckless fellows, who have no settled employment, who live by means of picking up anything by way of plunder which comes within their reach and when this is not to be had conveniently render assistance to the boatmen.'

 

Brilliant - well done.

 

Family history is just so rewarding when you find something like that elusive newspaper article!...."

 

"Rodneys", hey ? Wonderful !

[susanD]

Brilliant - well done.

 

Family history is just so rewarding when you find something like that elusive newspaper article!...."

 

"Rodneys", hey ? Wonderful !

Thanks Alan!,

Yes I am thrilled to have found this out! I was given the oral history that my 4x gt grandad was murdered 20+ years ago, and at last have proved the story! It took 3hours of searching old newspapers on a worn old film veiwer, but worth the effort! I wonder why these 'reckless houseless fellows' were given the name Rodneys!? - more research! Wonder where my family history will take me next!?

thanks for your interest.

Susan

[alan_fincher]

I wonder why these 'reckless houseless fellows' were given the name Rodneys!? - more research! Wonder where my family history will take me next!?

thanks for your interest.

Susan

 

Oh I'm always interested - although my own research has gone on a back burner for a while now.

 

I'd love to prove a canal connection to myself. My Fincher family are firmly from Tring, Herts, but I can't prove who the parents of my great great great grandfather John Fincher (b. abt 1803 or 1804) are.

 

If his brother is who I think there is a very good chance he was, then quite a few descendants of the putative brother were canal boatmen in the mid to late 19th century, and I would be related to them all.

 

But I can't prove that, sadly, (or at least not so far!).

[jeannette smith harrison]

Oh I'm always interested - although my own research has gone on a back burner for a while now.

 

I'd love to prove a canal connection to myself. My Fincher family are firmly from Tring, Herts, but I can't prove who the parents of my great great great grandfather John Fincher (b. abt 1803 or 1804) are.

 

If his brother is who I think there is a very good chance he was, then quite a few descendants of the putative brother were canal boatmen in the mid to late 19th century, and I would be related to them all.

 

But I can't prove that, sadly, (or at least not so far!).

Keep trying Alan some of mine have taken years to find or make a connection,im sure one day it will all fall into place & you will make that connection,its ov to the fact that you have canal boatmen in your blood.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I also like the term 'skulking-place'. I'm sure we can all recall a few canal bridges that applies to!

[andrewmorley]

Alan. My Mum's family, the Paxtons, are from Blisworth about 30 miles up the Grand Union from Tring. I was doing someresearch a couple of years ago and couldn't find any trace if them in Blisworth before 1801 until I found one who was described in the 1851 census as a canal carrier which got me thinking as to whether the family arrived eighths canal. There has always been a suggestion that we have an Irish connection so maybe they arrived as navvies. I'm not entirely sure what a 'canal carrier' might have been but I'm guessing the ancestor I've found was not a boatman as he would not have been listed on the census living in his own house. Could he have carried goods from the canal to local villages perhaps?

[mayalld]

Alan. My Mum's family, the Paxtons, are from Blisworth about 30 miles up the Grand Union from Tring. I was doing someresearch a couple of years ago and couldn't find any trace if them in Blisworth before 1801 until I found one who was described in the 1851 census as a canal carrier which got me thinking as to whether the family arrived eighths canal. There has always been a suggestion that we have an Irish connection so maybe they arrived as navvies. I'm not entirely sure what a 'canal carrier' might have been but I'm guessing the ancestor I've found was not a boatman as he would not have been listed on the census living in his own house. Could he have carried goods from the canal to local villages perhaps?

 

Your view of where he might live is coloured by views of canal history as homogenous for 200 years from 1761 onwards.

 

In fact, it was no such thing, and most of the stereotypical views of "canal life" are based on the latter part of the 19th century.

 

In the early days, and right through the "golden age of canals" (up until the 1830s), living on the boats was rare. Boatmen earned a good living, and slept on board only where the job necessitated it.

 

It was only railway competition forcing down tolls and boatmens wages that compelled them to live on the boats. Whilst boat dwelling families were now common in 1851, there would still have been land based boatmen.

[BuckbyLocks]

I now have found a newspaper report of the dicovery and apprehension of the murderer of my 4x gt grandad William Brown Apparently he was waiting in the 'hovel' for a lift back to Smethwick with a bargee friend.I quote - 'The hovel in question was built by the canal company as a shelter for boatmen who had to await their turn at the locks, but for several years past had been the skulking-place of a class of men known as 'rodneys,' a set of houseless, reckless fellows, who have no settled employment, who live by means of picking up anything by way of plunder which comes within their reachand when this is not to be had conviently render assistance to the boatmen.' Thanks so much to all who helped answer my queiry. - Carry on barging! Love Susan X

Dredging my memory a bit, but I seem to remember such a building where the toilet block now stands, almost under Mr Farmer's Bridge. Had been tidied up and used for storage, and vanished when they started 'improving' the area after Tindal Bridge was rebuilt.

[Hairy-Neil]

Thanks Alan!,

Yes I am thrilled to have found this out! I was given the oral history that my 4x gt grandad was murdered 20+ years ago, and at last have proved the story! It took 3hours of searching old newspapers on a worn old film veiwer, but worth the effort! I wonder why these 'reckless houseless fellows' were given the name Rodneys!? - more research! Wonder where my family history will take me next!?

thanks for your interest.

Susan

 

You'll find the term "Rodney Boaters" is still known to/in use by some Birmingham/Black County boaters. Lawrence? Pete?

[Tam & Di]

You'll find the term "Rodney Boaters" is still known to/in use by some Birmingham/Black County boaters. Lawrence? Pete?

 

I mentioned them in a thread about lock names Dec 2009 (I don't know how to put a link to something like that), as Hunton Change lock was where the Rodneys who acted as lock wheelers changed over. The same name was used for people who helped bow haul barges in the West Country. So it was a very general term for itinerant labourers, but I don't know if it was only in the context of boats or more general.

 

Edited to say I've done a quick search and the Oxford English Dictionary gives Rodney as an old dialect word in English meaning "an idler, or casual worker - a rough fellow".

Edited September 24, 2011 by Tam & Di

[pete harrison]

You'll find the term "Rodney Boaters" is still known to/in use by some Birmingham/Black County boaters. Lawrence? Pete?

 

To be honest I try not to use the 'old' terms such as "Rodney" as so few people nowadays would know what I would be talking about. Likewise I rarely use the 'historical' name for locks or locations, although I do not claim to know them all.

 

I also think it is equally important not to invent 'new' terms although it is sometimes easy to use these, such as "Mk 1 Bantock", "Class" e.t.c..

 

I am sure the only "Rodney" I have ever known was Rod North who worked for Bill Blaik, London (PRINCE), Birmingham & Midland C.C.Co. Ltd., Birmingham (YEOFORD and ARGON) and Threefellows Carrying Ltd., Thurmaston.

Edited September 24, 2011 by pete harrison

[Tam & Di]

To be honest I try not to use the 'old' terms such as "Rodney" as so few people nowadays would know what I would be talking about. Likewise I rarely use the 'historical' name for locks or locations, although I do not claim to know them all.

 

I also think it is equally important not to invent 'new' terms although it is sometimes easy to use these, such as "Mk 1 Bantock", "Class" e.t.c..

 

I am sure the only "Rodney" I have ever known was Rod North who worked for Bill Blaik, London (PRINCE), Birmingham & Midland C.C.Co. Ltd., Birmingham (YEOFORD and ARGON) and Threefellows Carrying Ltd., Thurmaston.

 

There is also Rod Atkin, in the 60s with Nautilus and Fazeley and now in France on and off, but he is a Roderick.

[Chris Pink]

You'll find the term "Rodney Boaters" is still known to/in use by some Birmingham/Black County boaters. Lawrence? Pete?

 

There's a reference in one of the wartime women books to the boaters referring to scruffy boats as "rodneys"

[Laurence Hogg]

You'll find the term "Rodney Boaters" is still known to/in use by some Birmingham/Black County boaters. Lawrence? Pete?

 

Got to say I have never heard the term used around here (Black Country)there are some old terms around although not used now. "Greasy Ockers" was one apparently refering to FMC steamer crews.