biodegradable products

[carlt]

And it smells nicer than chemical stuff.

Ecover contains chemicals, including known carcinogens and irritants.

[ditchcrawler]

Ecover contains chemicals, including known carcinogens and irritants.

But obviously not the same smells

[mayalld]

Me neither, Ecover works a treat. And it doesn't paintstripper my hands. And it smells nicer than chemical stuff.

 

Look up the thread.

 

Ecover is just as much "Chemical Stuff" as Fairy.

 

The main detergent ingredient in both is Sodium Laureth Sulfate [and before anybody comments, I KNOW that it should be Sulphate, but for some reason detergents are aways labelled in USA-ish]

 

One of the reasons that people think that Ecover WUL doesn't work is beacause it doesn't have surfactants

 

Check the ingredient list.

 

Ecover WUL contains Sodium Laureth Sulfate, which is a Surfactant.

 

The whole environmentally friendly detergents thing is nothing more than a marketing con.

[chieftiff]

Ecover washing up liquid ingredients;

• Aqua
• Sodium Laureth Sulfate
• Lauryl Polyglucose
• Sodium Chloride
• Whey
• Citric Acid
• Parfum
• Limonene
• 2-bromo-2-nitropropane-1,3-diol
• Calendula Officinalis Extract
• Chamomilla Recutita Extract

Fairy Liquid ingredients;

• Aqua

• Sodium laureth sulphate

• Alcohol denat

• Lauramine oxide

• C9-11 pareth-8

• Sodium chloride

• 1,3-Cyclohexanedimethanamine

• PPG (polypropylene glycols)

• Dimethyl aminoethyl methecrylate/hydroxyproply acrylate copolymer cirate

• Parfum

• Geraniol

• Limonene

• Colourant

 

Now, which of the ingredients in Fairy Liquid make it non-environmentally friendly?

 

The blunt truth is that Eco detergents are all about marketing.

 

Ecover and Fairy are neither better nor worse than each other, but one company chooses to market to people who want their WUL to say "good for the environment" and the other markets to people who want their WUL to say "cleans dishes well".

 

Fairy don't say "eco friendly", because they know that their target demographic would think that meant "doesn't wash as well as the eco-nasty stuff".

 

Ecover doesn't say "gets dishes sparkling clean", because they know that their target demographic associates such claims with eco nasty stuff.

 

The trouble is that 90% of people don't actually look further than the "ECO" label.

 

Bit of an eye opener for me this, a long time ago I was involved in a mathematical modelling project which centred on the role of phosphates in water pollution, fish populations etc but also factored in nitrate and oestrogen pollution of water courses. I always assumed that the "eco" tag was associated with nil or reduced phosphates, nitrates and oestrogen (you'd be surprised where oestrogen crops up and the bizarre affects it can have on fish populations - ultimately the whole food chain)

 

After reading your post I did a quick search on google and found this information: Bad stuff for the environment I particularly like this sentence that seems to sum it all up "There really isn’t any reliable way for you as a consumer to evaluate the biodegradability of a product. Surfactants made from vegetable oil are not necessarily more biodegradable than those made from petroleum. However, there is one type of petroleum-based surfactant sometimes used in cleaning products that has rather poor biodegradability. It is called nonylphenol ethoxylate. You will rarely see this ingredient listed on cleaners, even if it is present."

 

What did I say about oestrogen, I seem to remember that all phenols are classed as oestrogen mimmicking

Edited August 13, 2011 by chieftiff

[Bobbybass]

So.....

 

There is no standard for calling something Eco then...?

 

If buy a very low budget washing up liquid from the 'cheap shops'....and put my own label on it...

Call it maybe...ECO-BOBS washing up liquid....

That is...totally legal...?

 

That brings me to my next question...

Is the proper Eco range...just stuff from cheap shops that doesn't have much ingredients...and nobody would buy it unless you labled it...Eco ?

Do they make it themselves....or repackage...c**p

 

bob

[carlt]

Do they make it themselves....or repackage...c**p

 

 

Who knows?

 

I have always been suspicious of those suppliers who suggest you bring your own bottles and they'l refill them for you.

[Chertsey]

I'm the one who uses Ecover washing up liquid for everything, but that is mostly because it smells nice and contrary to what others have said, does everythng well. It is a better shampoo than many products actually sold as shampoos. There is also the advamtage of not having to store and replenish numerous bottles.

With regard to environmental concerns about putting stuff in the water I would have thought that the most significant thing you can do is avoid phosphates, which encourage weed growth, but as they're mostly found in laundry products it might not be an issue for a holiday.

[mayalld]

I'm the one who uses Ecover washing up liquid for everything, but that is mostly because it smells nice and contrary to what others have said, does everythng well. It is a better shampoo than many products actually sold as shampoos. There is also the advamtage of not having to store and replenish numerous bottles.

With regard to environmental concerns about putting stuff in the water I would have thought that the most significant thing you can do is avoid phosphates, which encourage weed growth, but as they're mostly found in laundry products it might not be an issue for a holiday.

 

If you've found that it works, well done.

 

However, I have found many other products that work as well or better for less money, and I have yet to see a shred of evidence that (on a per load washed basis) any of them are any worse for the environment than Ecover.

 

So.....

 

There is no standard for calling something Eco then...?

 

If buy a very low budget washing up liquid from the 'cheap shops'....and put my own label on it...

Call it maybe...ECO-BOBS washing up liquid....

That is...totally legal...?

 

Yes.

 

I see a bright future for you in the snake oil business youn Bob.

[soldthehouse]

A Classic example of ECO deception Low twenties to the gallon the 3.2litre Vauxhall vectra labelled ecotec

[ditchcrawler]

I'm the one who uses Ecover washing up liquid for everything, but that is mostly because it smells nice and contrary to what others have said, does everythng well. It is a better shampoo than many products actually sold as shampoos. There is also the advamtage of not having to store and replenish numerous bottles.

With regard to environmental concerns about putting stuff in the water I would have thought that the most significant thing you can do is avoid phosphates, which encourage weed growth, but as they're mostly found in laundry products it might not be an issue for a holiday.

We use to use "Teepol"for everything.

[Bobbybass]

Hey..

 

ECO-BOBs washing up liquid for sale...

"We Have ..researched...and investigated ...for at least a week...and can confirm...that we the best darn ECO washing up liquid that you can ever imagine."

It doesn't contain any nasty c*** that you will normally find in other washing liquids..mainly..because we buy cheap rubbish that wouldn't have it in the first place...as its too expensive...

We can even reuse your old bottles....and be good for the environment...and also...stitch you up for containers...and make even more money...

 

ALSO...don't ever meet my boat coming under a bridge...as I will be the most unpleasnat b****d you will ever meet and ...and just mow you down and not even say thanks...

 

ECo-Bobs

 

You know...it makes sense...

 

bob

[ditchcrawler]

Hey..

 

ECO-BOBs washing up liquid for sale...

"We Have ..researched...and investigated ...for at least a week...and can confirm...that we the best darn ECO washing up liquid that you can ever imagine."

It doesn't contain any nasty c*** that you will normally find in other washing liquids..mainly..because we buy cheap rubbish that wouldn't have it in the first place...as its too expensive...

We can even reuse your old bottles....and be good for the environment...and also...stitch you up for containers...and make even more money...

 

ALSO...don't ever meet my boat coming under a bridge...as I will be the most unpleasnat b****d you will ever meet and ...and just mow you down and not even say thanks...

 

ECo-Bobs

 

You know...it makes sense...

 

bob

That is a bit like Dell Boy with his Peckham bottled water.

[carlt]

I will be the most unpleasnat b****d you will ever meet and ...and just mow you down and not even say thanks...

Sounds like another Eco-boat owner I know.

[sueb]

We use to use "Teepol"for everything.

Is that like T-Cut?

Sue

[Bobbybass]

That is a bit like Dell Boy with his Peckham bottled water.

 

True...and as you have pointed out....Eco c*** IS Peckam bottled water...

 

There is money...in Eco..

There is NO regulation...there is just....MONEY....

 

 

bob

Edited August 14, 2011 by Bobbybass

[headjog]

There was a programme on TV last week (wish I could remember what it was) I'm sure it was Gaby Roslin fronting it. She was investigating Certain 'miracle' products in various items. Sodium Laureth Sulphate was the main one (I'm almost sure she said it was processed from Sulphuric acid)- anyroad up,it turns up in virtually all your toothpaste,shampoo,cleansers,shaving creme, and laundry products & cleaners.

It's primary use is as an industrial grade degreaser or detergent.(garages use it to clean engine oil from the floor!)

It's corrosive, hence warnings to keep products away from the eyes (it attacks the proteins in the eyes causing cataracts-in a foetus it prevents eye development)

Unlike Sodium Lauryl Sulphate-a related product which has bigger molecules, it is considered to be 'less' harmful, but due to the smaller molecules, it passes easily through the skin. where it builds up in soft tissues of internal organs, brain, kidneys & liver. (although she failed to point that out- but then she wasn't doing an eco-friendly slot)

You will find SLS in a number of own brand goods from well known health food store AND in a certain eco-friendly wanna be high st store.

Just read the labels, & become informed about what you use on yourself & your family.

(SLS has about 60 different synonyms - you'll need to check - I know one is Gardenol)

[carlt]

There was a programme on TV last week (wish I could remember what it was) I'm sure it was Gaby Roslin fronting it. She was investigating Certain 'miracle' products in various items. Sodium Laureth Sulphate was the main one (I'm almost sure she said it was processed from Sulphuric acid)- anyroad up,it turns up in virtually all your toothpaste,shampoo,cleansers,shaving creme, and laundry products & cleaners.

including Ecover.

[Wiggins]

When camping, and therefore needing to tip the washing up water on the ground, my parents use a bar of plain, old fashioned, just cleans without anything else soap in one of those giant tea-strainer things...

[Ally]

have to admit I never looked at the contents of MPD. I have emailed the agent about it though, will be interesting to hear the response.

Well, after a bit of a wait, the responses I got from the agent were thus:

firstly:

 

"The only way I can answer this is with some information given to me by H/O in America:

The Material Safety Data Sheet, which is not available to Distributors but is kept at Head Office, states that this product is ‘intended for wide dispersive use and is compatible with down the drain disposal route, not considered harmful to aquatic organisms or to have long-term effects on the environment. The surfactants contained in this preparation comply with the biodegradability criteria as laid down for detergents.’ I hope this is helpful."

 

to which we said, actually, that's not so helpful...why won't they provide a data sheet, and actually, most of that could be said about any detergent.....

second response:

 

"Actually both parties are right. The MPD does not contain much Aloe Vera Gel, but the product is intended to clean and you can’t clean with Aloe Vera. The product is tested on biodegradability and meets the OECD criteria for “Readily Biodegradable” which is the most stringent category for aerobic biodegradability. Hope this is more helpful,"

 

Well, I am still not feeling I know the ins and outs of the product, and so will no longer use the product. Had they been happy to send a data sheet, that might have helped....I know we can request a data sheet for every 'chemical' we use at work...why is this so secretive?

[mayalld]

Well, after a bit of a wait, the responses I got from the agent were thus:

firstly:

 

"The only way I can answer this is with some information given to me by H/O in America:

The Material Safety Data Sheet, which is not available to Distributors but is kept at Head Office, states that this product is 'intended for wide dispersive use and is compatible with down the drain disposal route, not considered harmful to aquatic organisms or to have long-term effects on the environment. The surfactants contained in this preparation comply with the biodegradability criteria as laid down for detergents.' I hope this is helpful."

 

to which we said, actually, that's not so helpful...why won't they provide a data sheet, and actually, most of that could be said about any detergent.....

second response:

 

"Actually both parties are right. The MPD does not contain much Aloe Vera Gel, but the product is intended to clean and you can't clean with Aloe Vera. The product is tested on biodegradability and meets the OECD criteria for "Readily Biodegradable" which is the most stringent category for aerobic biodegradability. Hope this is more helpful,"

 

Well, I am still not feeling I know the ins and outs of the product, and so will no longer use the product. Had they been happy to send a data sheet, that might have helped....I know we can request a data sheet for every 'chemical' we use at work...why is this so secretive?

 

 

It is all a bit "rabbit in the headlights" isn't it.

 

Basically, yes their detergent probably does meet biodegradability guidelines, but so do all the other products on the market.

[ditchcrawler]

Well, after a bit of a wait, the responses I got from the agent were thus:

firstly:

 

"The only way I can answer this is with some information given to me by H/O in America:

The Material Safety Data Sheet, which is not available to Distributors but is kept at Head Office, states that this product is ‘intended for wide dispersive use and is compatible with down the drain disposal route, not considered harmful to aquatic organisms or to have long-term effects on the environment. The surfactants contained in this preparation comply with the biodegradability criteria as laid down for detergents.’ I hope this is helpful."

 

to which we said, actually, that's not so helpful...why won't they provide a data sheet, and actually, most of that could be said about any detergent.....

second response:

 

"Actually both parties are right. The MPD does not contain much Aloe Vera Gel, but the product is intended to clean and you can’t clean with Aloe Vera. The product is tested on biodegradability and meets the OECD criteria for “Readily Biodegradable” which is the most stringent category for aerobic biodegradability. Hope this is more helpful,"

 

Well, I am still not feeling I know the ins and outs of the product, and so will no longer use the product. Had they been happy to send a data sheet, that might have helped....I know we can request a data sheet for every 'chemical' we use at work...why is this so secretive?

As an end user you have a right to the safety data, its COSHH requirements. http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/basics/datasheets.htm

[David Mack]

Is it too cynical of me to expect them to argue that a product that is supplied for domestic use is not a dangerous substance, and therefore falls outside the requirement to supply a copy of the data sheet?

[ditchcrawler]

Is it too cynical of me to expect them to argue that a product that is supplied for domestic use is not a dangerous substance, and therefore falls outside the requirement to supply a copy of the data sheet?

If I was to employ you and your company to clean my house I would expect your staff to have copies of data sheets for all the products you were using.

[Ally]

most things can cause harm if swallowed in enough quantity i would imagine....there's bound to be a scenario!