chieftiff

I'm guessing this is irony? Good luck in court...

I get the feeling we are only getting a part of the story, this thread seems to have a polarised set of contributors and I'm reminded of the story of two wolves:

No, it's someone on the internet's opinion based on a 'conversation' he had with someone anonymous who allegedly works(ed) for BW.

Not very catchy is it?

No, not quite, a weasel word is an equivocal word used to evade commitment, stakeholder is a noun used to succinctly encapsulate a long list of those with a vested interest. Politicians might use one, whilst someone trying to get things done effectively & efficiently might use the other!

It never does, I was exposed to the same profiteering by private sector charlatans when I was in the navy. I'm not a management consultant I run an R&D department, I need to get people onside because I want to use their experience, pick their brains and get them to look at things objectively so I can develop products that meet their needs. I don't profit from them I want them to profit from good products, the language is merely a way of describing things succinctly although I appreciate the language of business is a little unpopular right now but it's not gobbledegook, now If I had mentioned blue sky thinking or other such meaningless bullshit I would understand your angst.

Quite, we call those words.....

I'm in the private sector but you may have been on one of my working groups, lots of dissent in the public sector

I think that would have been a better (more profitable) option, my job is all about stakeholder management and if I want to get people onside I form a working group or task force, membership gives them ownership, people like ownership it generates peer relationships that can quickly stamp on dissent

I assume you have no idea of what chugging involves?

I take your point, I'm not sure there is a true equivalence but many people (me included) are already members of NT and RSPB, we joined because we 'use' their services for want of a better term and wouldn't want to lose access if those services ceased to exist. In some ways C&RT have missed a trick here, they should have used this as a way of engaging stakeholders and getting strong buy in by giving people something tangible as a benefit - a badge, magazine anything, rather than simply making them feel like they are making an uncommitted donation. But, I think you could be surprised how many people feel it a worthy donation given the number of walkers, cyclists, fishermen etc that use the waterways but not necessarily on the water.

"Every penny you give will go directly to keeping the canals and rivers special - restoring, conserving, enhancing and educating people about our 200 year old network of waterways. None of it will be spent on our administration and management overheads. We call it the golden pound." Thanks for putting this up Laurence I think I'll join, it's a great idea especially as we get so much pleasure from the canal system, I think it will allow people to buy in as they do with the National Trust, RSPB etc

Where do you want to start? 1. Greed (and health, education, social responsibility etc) became more important than security, conflict got expensive. 2. Media expansion and 24/7 news coverage exposed the 'innocent' public to the real horrors of war, latent pacifism became more tasteful than overt aggression (or even active defence of legitimate interest) 3. We voted for slimy career politicians with little understanding of military strategy and force development. 4. We came to believe the hype that the good old US of A would police force the world for us. 5. We became convinced that the world was a safer. more civil place, despite millennia of evidence suggesting that is unlikely to be true in the long run. etc etc etc But I suspect history will just record that we became complacent, that's what it generally records when we've made the same mistake in recent history ( 1937 for example when it became obvious Germany were ramping up for something special and we'd all but demolished our military might and 1981 - lets Nott forget the moron who was in charge of defence then and believed the military, especially the RN were superfluous)

She was renamed as 'Sundowner' and sold in 2009, owned by RNAS Yeovilton's welfare fund rather than the FAA, fond memories (not) I spent several unpleasant days in 1994 replacing the burst shit tank for the pump out. She was replaced by Warneford VC named after Sub Lt Warneford.

They were actually built by JL Pinder in 1973 for the Royal Navy as part of a recruitment drive, Cleopatra was F28 - A Leander Class Frigate (of sorts, in miniature), JL Pinder also built 2 Destroyers and a Submarine. Cleopatra became Minerva for a while and was run by Nottingham Sea Cadets. Canaldrifter knew a lot about these and spent some time posting info and photographs on another forum (RN), does he ever pop in anymore? As an aside the RN still have 4 narrowboats running out of various marina's, also several ships have their own for R&R as do several RAF bases, I could tell you most their names (the RN ones anyway) as I've taken most out at one time or another but I think they go to some length to stay fairly anonymous. The one on the K&A had to change it's name a few years ago as it became 'unwelcome' near many pubs due to alcohol induced high spirits. Edited to add the following that Canaldrifter put up on the other forum a couple of years ago, I just found it: I have been working on what was HMS Cleopatra for the last couple of years and was out on the cut with her on Monday. She bears little resemblance to her original , now a very conventional 60ft narrowboat. The hull shape is the same, a rather nice bow shape & transom stern and there are a couple of original heavy fairleads on the stern. The engine is now a (German!) Mercedes- Benz OM616 . The history of her is quite unusual: Built in 1973 by JL Pinder for the RN , along with 2 destroyers and a submarine. Sold to a privateer about 1978 who wrecked her whilst a liveaboard, re- sold in 1981, new owner built new conventional steel superstructure and then had a fit-out done by Warble Boats ( one of their first) at huge expense. Then boat abandoned , unfinished , no engine fitted , no gas locker in bow. Boat floats around unloved from about 1984 to 2004. Me and my mate , Derek ( ex Royal & Merchant Navy) take it on as a project and she's nearly right now. Maiden voyage was last July, first time moved under her own power for 25years. Oddly enough , I find her quite boring, I am used to boating with our 70ft wooden motor or horse-boating with " the UK's oldest wooden narrowboat", both of which are a lifetime passion of mine. Cleopatra was F28 , she is now called "Minerva" (F35) both Leander class frigates as you no doubt know. The Sea Cadets at Nottingham (TS Orion) had one of the others on the Trent in original condition , certainly a few years ago. cheers Robert Holmes