Q's about Length, Bow Doors, Engine Room

[BazD]

Hi guys (and gals),

 

I'm in the process of doing the intial research before diving into the world of Narrow Boating. I intend on living aboard and have read about the two main routes taken (continuous cruising vs residential mooring). My first question is, I work offshore on ships, which means I spend at least 6 months away at sea. This isn't in one big block, I tend to go away for one or two months at a time, then come back for 1 or 2 months etc. Now, with this sort of a life style, would I still be considered as a full time liveaboard? Being away from the Narrow Boat more time per year than actually on it, would imply to me that it shouldn't be considered as "Residential", but I don't know for sure. Anyone have any experience or suggestions for this?

 

Secondly, the research between the 3 main types (trad, semi-trad and cruiser stern) have left me deciding between a trad and a cruiser. I don't have children or pets, which as far as I can tell is the biggest driving factor for having a semi-trad. For any given length, how much interior space is lost on average due to the external space gained on a cruiser? Whilst I'm aware that trad's tend to be the usual liveaboard choice, I know that's not always the case. I would like some space at the back for a bit of social time, as I'm looking at losing it at front, which leads me to my next question.

 

I've seen a few boats where the front of the cabin does not have doors, usually there is a double bed going across the full width, like in this Springer for sale:

 

 

Is there a particular name or model I have to look for to find those without the front doors? It is something I'd really like on my future boat.

 

 

Next, I've read several threads on maximum length and am aware for the most part that other than a few canals most of the network would be accessible with as longer length as I want. As I will be living on my own, are there any particular suggestions or recommendations for me? I've been looking at 60'-66', does that sound reasonable? Is 70' too much for a first timer? And with these larger boats, how do the canal restrictions actually pan out. Let's say I had a 63' as an average, the canals I can't access, do they then mean I'm stuck from getting to other parts of the network, or can I circumvent them? I'm trying to avoid getting a map of the entire network and the marking out the no go canals to figure out if anywhere is off limits, so anyone who already has this knowledge, your help is appreciated!

 

I'm currently based in Stoke-on-Trent (actually sitting about 60' from the canal in Trentham right now!) and would like to stay fairly local. Does anyone have any experiences with Festival Park Marina? They currently have some long term moorings available. Also looked at Lime Kiln Basin in Stone, but I read they're capped to 60' and the website also indicates no moorings are available, although it says updated November 2009.

 

Finally, I've read that hire boat companies turn over their fleet quite regularly, with them replacing their boats so often and there being plenty of new builds, is the canal network getting busier and busier over time? I don't seem to see or hear of boats being decommissioned nearly as much as I hear of new boats being introduced. I wonder if that will result in congestion in the future.

 

Thanks in advance!

[RLWP]

Hi Baz,

 

It's good to see you are really thinking about what you want and how it will work. When we got stuck in this part of looking for a boat, I found the best thing was to go and see some boats in a brokerage. It totally changed our ideas on what we wanted -length, style, engine, everything

 

Can I suggest you do the same, there's nothing like a real boat rather than the idea of one for firming up your understanding of what you want

 

Richard

[BazD]

I missed the engine room question! Is there anything to search for in order to avoid having a trad type narrow boat but without the engine its own room within the hull? It seems all the space gained from not having a cruiser stern is wasted on an engine room!

[RLWP]

I missed the engine room question! Is there anything to search for in order to avoid having a trad type narrow boat but without the engine its own room within the hull? It seems all the space gained from not having a cruiser stern is wasted on an engine room!

 

There are trads with the engine under the back steps. Some of the ones I've seen mean you have to be a contortionist to get in the boat. I hate them. You'll find all kinds of boats in brokers

 

Richard

[casper ghost]

Richard's right, you've got to look at several different boats to see what suits you, if you ask the folk on here they'll probably all say something different, it just depends what you like.

Casp'

[deletedaccount]

Hi Baz,

 

It's good to see you are really thinking about what you want and how it will work. When we got stuck in this part of looking for a boat, I found the best thing was to go and see some boats in a brokerage. It totally changed our ideas on what we wanted -length, style, engine, everything

 

Can I suggest you do the same, there's nothing like a real boat rather than the idea of one for firming up your understanding of what you want

 

Richard

 

This is the best advice you will get. Go and look at 3 or four trads and 3 or four cruisers and you'll see the difference.

 

You'll also realise than one trad and another can differ massively and the same goes for cruisers. It's not just the stern that affects internal space, it's what's been done with it inside.

 

Also note there's two types of trads. 'Modern' trads where the engine is indie but under a box at the back and 'trad' trads where it's got it's own room.

[koukouvagia]

Is there a particular name or model I have to look for to find those without the front doors? It is something I'd really like on my future boat.

 

 

My concern with having no doors at the front (apart from the inconvenience for crew getting on and off the boat) would be how easy it would be to get off the boat in case of fire.

 

Neither of our boats, being converted ex-working boats, has a front entrance, but on one there are opening side doors in the bedroom and in the other there is a slide above the bed.

[sueb]

Ex Canaltime boats have no front doors. 58' will go everywhere and is large enough for two to live on. Look at lots of boats and hire something similar to try it out. Good luck

Sue

[Dekazer]

Re. moorings, you could look into getting a 'leisure' mooring. Different providers have different terms and conditions, but many would allow you to live on board for x months per year, provided you were away for the remainder. Leisure moorings are much more plentiful and much cheaper than residential. The downside is that you wouldn't have an 'official' address, so you would probably need to use a family member's address for some things. There are, however, many CCers on this forum who have found work-arounds..

 

The term 'residential' actually refers to the planning/usage permissions attached to the mooring, rather than your actual use of it. A residential mooring would be registered for Counci lTax, electoral roll, etc. A leisure mooring would not, so you could not use it as your official address.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Lucy

 

PS I echo the suggestion of visiting a large broker and nosing round lots of boats - it puts your research into context. We, like others here, changed our minds about things we thought were non-negotiable. You just have to try not to fall in love with any boats before you're ready to buy

[BazD]

Thanks for the advice so far, I do intend on visiting a few Marinas as soon as possible, unfortunately I got shipped out yesterday, but will be on it as soon as I get back. As well as having no front doors, I do intend to have at least one set of side doors, which answers the fire hazard part. Anything to add to the other questions?

[Lady Muck]

The boat fit-out is more important than the length. Some 65 foot boats can seem to have less internal space than some boats 10 feet shorter. As other posters have said, go and look at some boats to see what we mean, they really are as individual as people are!

 

I learnt to steer on a 71'6'' boat and now own a 56.5 foot boat. I can't really tell any difference. Aside from where you can cruise, the main thing is with length is convenience. I can wind (turn) my boat at its mooring, but anything longer than 60 foot, no way. The longer the boat (unless you are on a wide river), the further you may have to go before you can wind it.

[DeanS]

I missed the engine room question! Is there anything to search for in order to avoid having a trad type narrow boat but without the engine its own room within the hull? It seems all the space gained from not having a cruiser stern is wasted on an engine room!

 

Hi Baz. We have an engine room on our boat. It would normally seem to be a waste of space, but it's all about functionality. We use the room for:

 

1. hanging washing when it's raining outside.

2. I squeezed a desk and chair down one side to use as a work space if moored up and not needing to use the engine.

3. I installed a spare casette toilet down the one side.

4. It's a place to store things like the vacuum cleaner.

5. It's a place for putting inverters etc.

 

but...there are many downsides too...so it comes down to personal preference.

[sociable_hermit]

It's a myth that modern trad sterns have more storage space. They don't, because you have to keep moving everything out of the engine bay whenever you need to steer the boat or get to the engine or stern gland. In the long run this becomes such a nuisance that you learn not to store anything much in there in the first place.

 

The main benefit of a trad is an engine bay protected from rainwater ingress. While you may still get some water in the bilge from the stern gland this only happens when the boat is on the move, and it shouldn't amount to much. Moored up, the stern gland shouldn't be letting in any water, but cruiser sterns often let in lots of rainwater from the top, through the boards. However a 'pram hood' can be used to prevent this. A pram hood will also give you a nice entrance hall / conservatory area.

 

The other advantage of a trad is the ability to close the back doors so that you're at least 50% sheltered when steering in the rain. A pram hood might be considered the better solution, offering 100% weather protection, but in practice they don't fit through a lot of bridges and locks and most people run with them down.

[Chertsey]

I missed the engine room question! Is there anything to search for in order to avoid having a trad type narrow boat but without the engine its own room within the hull? It seems all the space gained from not having a cruiser stern is wasted on an engine room!

Don't think of a separate engine room as wasted space; it's very useful space for storage, drying etc and it makes the engine easily accessible to work on.

[Mac of Cygnet]

From what you imply about your usage of the boat (you presumably make sure you're out of the country for at least 6 months each year for tax purposes, and it sounds as if you'll also be taking it out cruising too), any marina would accept you as a non-residential moorer, which as Dekazer says is much cheaper and easier to find (like four figures cheaper, and ten times easier to find).

 

But two extra things to consider: 1. You will be bitten by the bug, and want to explore the whole system. This implies a sub-57ft narrowboat, which is easily big enough for two, IMO. let alone one.

2. At some point, like almost all sailors, you will want to come shoreside, possibly permanently. Then will come the more difficult decisions.

 

As to cruiser, trad, etc, well I would only have a cruiser stern, but others think different. Why not hire a couple next time you're ashore to see what you prefer? Sounds like it'll be autumn by the time you're back, and you can get some very good last-minute deals. Some firms seem to be wary of hiring to single-handers, but if you explain what you're about, they may be OK with that.

 

Mac

[Chagall]

I had a full width bed at the bow of a 58' trad, its great in winter and I can clamber over to get out of double doors into the bow deck. This summer I had it made 3/4 width with a narrow passage through to the bow doors, and the 1/4 mattress piece can be put back for winter making it full width again. It is gunnel height too so that I have masses of storage under the bed. Works for me.

 

 

edit to add.....I had intended not having doors at all at the bow but the Helmsman's course trainer advised otherwise and the safety aspect of being able to get out in an emergency or in locks was very wise advice. I now can use my bow deck with ease as a lovely summer space to sit first thing in the morning.

 

 

 

full width....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and 3/4......

 

Edited July 24, 2011 by Chagall

[keving]

I can't see the advantages of having a engine room. Surely it's best tucked away under the deck. And the room it would have had put to better use.

Myself I'm torn between a semitrad and a crusier. Mainly for socialising. And I like company.

[sociable_hermit]

I can't see the advantages of having a engine room. Surely it's best tucked away under the deck. And the room it would have had put to better use.

Myself I'm torn between a semitrad and a crusier. Mainly for socialising. And I like company.

Can you see the advantages of a garden shed, or workshop? Well it's like that, but in a boat.

[ditchcrawler]

I can't see the advantages of having a engine room. Surely it's best tucked away under the deck. And the room it would have had put to better use.

Myself I'm torn between a semitrad and a crusier. Mainly for socialising. And I like company.

Somewhere to dry the wet coats, washing, put the tool box, oil, buckets,screws, plumbing fittings, spare rope and anything else you can think of, plus sit and do an oil/filter change in the warm and dry, not forgetting changing the belts and maybe adjusting the tappets.

It also warms the middle of the boat in winter like a storage heater. You can get to the batteries to check the levels. etc.

[BazD]

All taken in and plenty of food for thought, thanks! Mac of Cygnet, being away for at least does tend to be more financially desirable..! You mentioned the point about cruising the entire system needing 57ft at max..Am I right in saying that complete canal networks (rather than single canals) get cut off if you have a 58+ft boat? I.e., the are the canals that are restricted to 57ft the sole access points to other canal networks? I will be back probably early September, failing that early October so will see what the hiring fees are like at that point.

 

Thanks for the pictures Chagall, I'm still set on having no front doors, for more reasons than just the width of the bed.

 

[larkshall]

All taken in and plenty of food for thought, thanks! Mac of Cygnet, being away for at least does tend to be more financially desirable..! You mentioned the point about cruising the entire system needing 57ft at max..Am I right in saying that complete canal networks (rather than single canals) get cut off if you have a 58+ft boat? I.e., the are the canals that are restricted to 57ft the sole access points to other canal networks? I will be back probably early September, failing that early October so will see what the hiring fees are like at that point.

 

Thanks for the pictures Chagall, I'm still set on having no front doors, for more reasons than just the width of the bed.

 

 

If not having front doors, make sure you have either a side door or a Houdini hatch as an escape route in case of fire or other disaster, vital. (I tend to agree with you about doors at the front)

[Chickadee]

It's a myth that modern trad sterns have more storage space. They don't, because you have to keep moving everything out of the engine bay whenever you need to steer the boat or get to the engine or stern gland. In the long run this becomes such a nuisance that you learn not to store anything much in there in the first place.

 

 

With my modern trad stern we only ever have to move stuff to get at the engine. I can steer and get to the stern gland with out moving a thing. On top of the engine we have a shoe rack and then above that a coat rack and we use it for keeping things like wetsuits and toys (frizbees etc)

 

Your toasty and dry when working on the engine and warmer and drier steering in the rain. Our engine still looks brand new and is always dry. I can also use the back step to give me an extra few mm of height to see when steering into locks.

 

I looked at a boat with across boat bed it had front doors but the guy selling the boat said he didn't use them very often. I can see the attraction as long as you have other doors near by. I'd love a nice big bed like that.

[jonk]

Hi,

you might find this thread of interest.

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=31775&st=0&p=560464&hl=jonk&fromsearch=1entry560464

 

Good hunting!

 

John