Moorings for Working Boats

[antarmike]

It has been over 30 years since I owned a Working Narrowboat, and obviously the Canals have changed a lot in character since then.

 

If I were to buy an Unconverted Motorboat, where would I start to find a mooring. Has anyone got any recommendations of working boat friendly locations where such craft are actually

welcomed or encouraged. When I was last on the canal there were pockets of working boats centred here and there.

 

I would welcome peoples views on where to start a search for a good mooring.

 

Thanks Mike

Edited July 4, 2011 by antarmike

[Laurie Booth]

It has been over 30 years since I owned a Working Narrowboat, and obviously the Canals have changed a lot in character since then.

 

If I ere to buy an Unconverted Motorboat, where would I start to find a mooring. Has anyone got any recommendations of working boat friendly locations where such craft are actually

welcomed or encouraged. When I was last on the canal there were pockets of working boats centred here and there.

 

I would welcome peoples views on where to start a search for a good mooring.

 

Thanks Mike

France, Canal de Midi.

[twbm]

Juat ring round enquiring regarding moorings for a seventy foot two/occasional three berth historic cruiser.

 

What you really want is an affordable mooring I guess, and that's the challenge. Marina's generally aren't particularly altruistic, and not all can accomodate full length boats. There are still locations where historic boats tend to gather, and I would suggest those are the places to start, however many others are moored against offside properties and land all over the system.

[Paul H]

Juat ring round enquiring regarding moorings for a seventy foot two/occasional three berth historic cruiser.

 

What you really want is an affordable mooring I guess, and that's the challenge. Marina's generally aren't particularly altruistic, and not all can accomodate full length boats. There are still locations where historic boats tend to gather, and I would suggest those are the places to start, however many others are moored against offside properties and land all over the system.

 

Whilst there is no reason why ex-working boats need a different kind of mooring than any other boat - apart from needing more depth and length than most, it is good to moor with like minded people. Old boats tend to congregate at yards which specialise in their restoration like Brinklow, Stockton, Norton Canes and Stourbridge - also Alvecote, Langley Mill. Of couse there are also "continuous cruisers" particularly as some boats spend the whole summer going from rally to rally.

 

I think you will find boating costs, and mooring cost in particular, a bit of a shock after 30 years!

 

Paul

[Derek R.]

Yes, definitely advise the fitting of 'shock absorbers'.

 

Things may have changed so much, the desire to 'come back' may be dampened. Very necessary to do some research. You'll meet doomsayers (what me?) but you'll meet huge enthusiasm too - and many faces that are strangers. They'll be the friends you have not yet met. And Waterways people with hand held computers. (occassionally).

[alan_fincher]

Clearly you wouldn't be looking in the South, Mike, but one of the things that put me firmly off the idea of a 70 footer was the sheer paucity of affordable moorings down here.

 

Whilst some 70 foot ones do appear from time to time on the BW auctions list, they often tend to be more popular than the shorter ones.

 

That said, if you wanted to return close to your old haunts, BW have failed on occasions to let full length towpath moorings at Leighton Buzzard at their reserve price of around £1,500 p/a.

 

Almost invariably with BW ones around here, though, we are talking about non-secure tow-path, with few facilities, and no parking associated with the site.

[antarmike]

And presumably finding moorings for a pair would be an even greater problem. Do waterways still insist that a butty moored alongside a motor has to be paid for also, even though no greater frontage is taken up?

[alan_fincher]

I believe that buttys tied alongside motors on BW moorings is one of the old chestnuts, (where is Koukouvagioa, to comment! )

 

Even those who have it as an "evergreen" arrangement seem to have to fight the occasional battle with BW.

 

My understanding is that, if allowed, the butty should be charged at half the rate of the motor, but every so often BW may suffer "amnesia" on such a historic arrangement ?

 

It is not clear to me it would easily be allowed on an auctioned mooring you newly bid for now.

 

At the very least few moorings are advertised to allow a boat of 14 foot width, (on canals I look at), so that alone would presumably preclude it.

 

I'd say the number of 70 foot plus moorings advertised by BW on the GU that would have permitted a 14 foot barge are very few indeed - a couple of sites on the Southern GU, at most - often the restriction on width is 7 foot, or only a very little over.

Edited July 4, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Derek R.]

A 50% discount off the Licence fee is allowed for craft over 50' if the unpowered boat is always accompanied by the powered.

 

But in BW's 'definitions', item 1.7 states:

"'Powered' means that the boat has some form of mechanical propulsion. 'Unpowered Boats' are boats that are propelled by human, wind or animal force. A boat that is normally towed by a powered vessel is defined as powered."

 

Doesn't seem to affect the rate demanded, and of course neither relate to moorings. 'They' will be between the mooring management and boat owner. One hoary 'chestnut' has in the past been why two seventy footers breasted up get charged more than one wide beam the same length. Some will claim that they are two boats, which clearly they are, but the discount (if any) against mooring fees may vary - all down to the h'management.

 

EDITED to add: Need input from those directly in the 'know'.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Derek R.

[Steilsteven]

Since seeing how things are done in The Netherlands, where they really value their historic vessels, this subject annoys me a great deal.

Many towns have a historic basin or inland harbour, that is available for historic craft to moor for free provided they are maintained to a certain standard.Dordrecht has at least one of these and it was a pleasure to see. Some of the surrounding buildings are original but although they've been converted to other uses, they still maintain the flavour of days gone by. It is not a museum but just part of the town where you can walk around as you would anywhere else.

 

This sort of thing should have happened here, I can't see a reason why it still couldn't.

 

Keith

[Paul H]

Since seeing how things are done in The Netherlands, where they really value their historic vessels, this subject annoys me a great deal.

Many towns have a historic basin or inland harbour, that is available for historic craft to moor for free provided they are maintained to a certain standard.Dordrecht has at least one of these and it was a pleasure to see. Some of the surrounding buildings are original but although they've been converted to other uses, they still maintain the flavour of days gone by. It is not a museum but just part of the town where you can walk around as you would anywhere else.

 

This sort of thing should have happened here, I can't see a reason why it still couldn't.

 

Keith

It was certainly suggested at one time. When the Historic Boat Discount was introduced for BW licences there was a suggestion that "historic harbours" could be set up but it never happened. Obvious places would be at Stoke Bruerne, Camden Lock, Little Venice but there is so much pressure on moorings from continous cruisers in particular that I can't see this going down very well these days. Also the whole "historic" thing has got a bit debased as nobody in BW really has a clue what historic should mean in the context of boats.

 

Paul

[alan_fincher]

Doesn't seem to affect the rate demanded, and of course neither relate to moorings. 'They' will be between the mooring management and boat owner. One hoary 'chestnut' has in the past been why two seventy footers breasted up get charged more than one wide beam the same length. Some will claim that they are two boats, which clearly they are, but the discount (if any) against mooring fees may vary - all down to the h'management.

Actually I have found the text of the BW policy on "double breasted boats", which includes specific detail on a motor/butty pair, and places some tight requirements.

 

For some reason I can't actually find on Waterscape, only on 3rd party sites, so it seems to be something they didn't wish to publish too loudly.....

 

 

LONG TERM MOORING PRICING:

POLICY FOR DOUBLE BREASTED BOATS

 

1. There should be a presumption against double breasting of boats on long-term linear moorings

on environmental grounds.

 

2. Double breasted mooring on linear sites will however be permitted in the following

circumstances

a) There are established/historic arrangements covered by an existing agreement

A customer makes a special request to be breasted against a family or friend’s boat and

both parties are agreeable to the arrangement.

c) Historic narrow boat pairs

d) Temporary arrangements are necessary to accommodate boats moved temporarily from

other moorings for BW operational requirements

 

3. The price of a mooring permit for each of the breasted boats will be 100% of the normal fee for

the site. This principle reflects:

a) that both boats have equal access to facilities. There are advantages and

disadvantages of inner and outer positions which we believe balance each other, so

overall amenity is not diminished.

BW’s costs are the same for the breasted boat as for other boats moored at the site.

Cost of servicing is primarily related to the number of people using the mooring, not

to size of boat. The number of boats is our proxy measure for number of people.

For this reason, two narrow boats will attract two fees, while a single wide beam

craft will pay the normal single boat fee.

 

4. Exceptions:

a) An historic narrow boat pair (i.e. motor boat and unpowered butty) that qualifies for

the historic boat licence discount will be subject to a single fee, providing that:

i. Both boats are licensed by the same customer, and

ii. The boats to have concurrent mooring permits with same start and expiry

dates.

Two boats that just both happen to enjoy historic boat discounts is not sufficient

qualification for the single payment .

If temporary double breasting is required by BW for operational reasons, there may

be a reduction on the fee payable at the customer’s normal home mooring to

compensate for inconvenience.

 

5. Transition from existing arrangements

Fees will be levied as above for new customers from 1 April 2005, and for existing customers

from 1st June 2005. Where existing customers face a resulting single year increase of more

than £250, the increase will be phased using the same scheme as for mooring price increases

generally (these are explained in the pricing guideline document).

 

1st issued: 14/3/05

Revised: 26/7/06

 

EDITED TO ADD: Struggling to remember how you get things that happen to have brackets after them not apperaring as emoticons - can anyone remind me, please ?

Edited July 5, 2011 by alan_fincher

[koukouvagia]

I believe that buttys tied alongside motors on BW moorings is one of the old chestnuts, (where is Koukouvagia, to comment! )

 

 

Here I am.

The rules say: "50% discount for a butty boat more than 50ft long that never travels separately from its motor boat. The motor boat must be licensed and licences for motor and butty must be concurrent with the same start and end date. To claim this discount, you must declare the name and index number of the motor boat."

 

However, I'd had a written agreement going back 15 years before these new rules were formulated with the then SE Waterways Manager, Matthew Routledge. In those days it was left to the discretion of local managers to set the mooring rules. I'd been given permission to moor the butty alongside the motor for a 50% discount. He was happy to have an historic pair on his patch and it never occurred to him to demand the full rate because the butty was motorised. All was well for about ten years. Then out of the blue I was told that the policy on butties had changed and that as a result I would have to pay the full rate. The new waterways manager was unaware of any previous agreement and was determined re-write my mooring agreement.

 

I have learned over the years never to give in to BW's strong arm tactics and so I invoked their complaints procedure. I will say, however, that I was most impressed by the swift and efficient way my complaint was dealt with.

 

At the first level, the local moorings officer had not been properly briefed to explain BW's new breasted-up boats policy to me but unfortunately the local manager upheld the decision of the local office and I was asked to pay up.

 

At the second level, my complaint was dealt by a director who had no direct responsibility for, or line management of, the local levels. I was further impressed by the fact that he took the trouble to come out to the boats and see for himself the context of my complaint and secondly that he phoned me at home to let me know of his decision. The upshot of a very protracted negotiation was that the director judged that BW had not followed the correct procedures and that as a consequence I was to retain the 50% discount.

 

I then had the immense difficulty of arranging for the licences to be concurrent. It took two years before this simple request, which was completely beyond the capabilities of BW's computing system to resolve, before I got the correct invoice. Each year I received four separate letters with four lots of postage with a separate reminder for the licence and the mooring for each boat.

[twbm]

Alan, Use the square brackets. [Like this]

[mykaskin]

a) Below the post edit window, in the options section, click the plus button - click to configure post options

and untick "Enable emoticons?"

[Derek R.]

Thanks Owl, the administration's biggest weapon is bluff, and legalese. The former needs confronting, the latter understanding (and not standing under!).

 

Derek

[Chertsey]

Some people would prefer to have a historic boat than a modern one on their mooring. Try asking at yards that specialise in historic boats for a start. Moorings are sometimes also advertised in the HNBOC newsletter. There's also no substitute for keeping your ear to the ground and making your wishes known in circles where historic boat owners meet.

[antarmike]

Some people would prefer to have a historic boat than a modern one on their mooring. Try asking at yards that specialise in historic boats for a start. Moorings are sometimes also advertised in the HNBOC newsletter. There's also no substitute for keeping your ear to the ground and making your wishes known in circles where historic boat owners meet.

That is part of my reason for asking the question here!

[Chertsey]

That is part of my reason for asking the question here!

Yes, I know, but I meant as a more long term thing. The chances of one being available right now are smaller than one coming up in the medium term, and you'd want to be in a position to hear about it.

[Mike C]

It has been over 30 years since I owned a Working Narrowboat, and obviously the Canals have changed a lot in character since then.

 

If I were to buy an Unconverted Motorboat, where would I start to find a mooring. Has anyone got any recommendations of working boat friendly locations where such craft are actually

welcomed or encouraged. When I was last on the canal there were pockets of working boats centred here and there.

 

I would welcome peoples views on where to start a search for a good mooring.

 

Thanks Mike

We very much welcome historic boats and as such we offer a FREE mooring to visiting historic boats (Subject to availability) and encourage historic narrowboats as permanent moorers over modern craft in the arm that was part of WJ Yarwood site. www.yarwoodsbasin.co.uk – as I look around today there are 9 historic boats here with 2 that moor here all the time being out and about on the system. We can have up to 17 at anyone time but try to keep 4 moorings available for passing craft, in the last couple of years we have about 45 visiting historic boats for various durations.

To check availability just give me a ring – 07831 184495

Edited July 14, 2011 by Mike C

[David Schweizer]

One going here:- https://www.bwmooringvacancies.com/vacancy/vacancy_details.php?id=3133

But be quick it ends in an hour and a half. Mind you It probably won't be let as it is not a very poular spot immediately above Stockton top lock. I was offered it three years ago when BW closed our moorings, but after trying it, refused it because it is very dark and gets almost no sunlight.

 

As far as I am aware it has been vacant for nearly five years except for the occasional winter moorer. It's advantages are that it is a hard concrete edge and it has rings, and there is limited free parking nearby, If you can wrestle a space from the dog walkers!

 

Edited to add:- I have just noted that the declared depth is 0.5 metre which I am sure must be a mistake, as we were able to moor up there a few years ago, and our boat is 0.85 meter deep.

Edited July 14, 2011 by David Schweizer

[kingofthecut]

Alvecote of course!

 

It has been over 30 years since I owned a Working Narrowboat, and obviously the Canals have changed a lot in character since then.

 

If I were to buy an Unconverted Motorboat, where would I start to find a mooring. Has anyone got any recommendations of working boat friendly locations where such craft are actually

welcomed or encouraged. When I was last on the canal there were pockets of working boats centred here and there.

 

I would welcome peoples views on where to start a search for a good mooring.

 

Thanks Mike