Fire extinguishers

[bottle]

This question arises from a post of Johns:

 

'What bugs me is having to replace perfectly good extinguishers again' (paraphrased)

 

Why are are they required on a boat, the Fire Brigade advice is 'in case of fire get out and stay out'.

 

They are not required in a house, perhaps this is another item that could be advisable and not compulsory on a boat. (Thinking BSS)

 

I know they have a shelf life but if they are in good order and in date why did you have to change them John?

 

p.s. I may be the devils advocate here as they are probably a good idea for an aid in escape.

[John Orentas]

My examiner, nice enough chap but very picky. It seems that within most 4 year periods there are subtle changes in the specifications, one year the kite mark, then colour and so on I have always fallen outside somehow.

 

I think it was David S some months ago who made the point that they should be generally located close to the exit doors following the principle that you should fight a fire from outside the boat. I have followed that advice and re-located mine, I also keep an unofficial Co2 one in the engine room.

[Guest]

My examiner, nice enough chap but very picky. It seems that within most 4 year periods there are subtle changes in the specifications, one year the kite mark, then colour and so on I have always fallen outside somehow.

 

I think it was David S some months ago who made the point that they should be generally located close to the exit doors following the principle that you should fight a fire from outside the boat. I have followed that advice and re-located mine, I also keep an unofficial Co2 one in the engine room.

Likewise, if anybody has used a powder type they will know why.

[nigel carton]

This question arises from a post of Johns:

 

'What bugs me is having to replace perfectly good extinguishers again' (paraphrased)

 

Why are are they required on a boat, the Fire Brigade advice is 'in case of fire get out and stay out'.

 

They are not required in a house, perhaps this is another item that could be advisable and not compulsory on a boat. (Thinking BSS)

 

I know they have a shelf life but if they are in good order and in date why did you have to change them John?

 

p.s. I may be the devils advocate here as they are probably a good idea for an aid in escape.

 

So, if you had a small fire on your pride and joy that you could tackle, you would rather step off and let it get out of hand and destroy your boat before the fire service turned up? Just a thought.

[Guest]

So, if you had a small fire on your pride and joy that you could tackle, you would rather step off and let it get out of hand and destroy your boat before the fire service turned up? Just a thought.

If I thought it was small enough to tackle I'd give it a sniff of CO2. If I thought it was too big to tackle I'd run-boats can be replaced. Powder extinguishers are to appease the BSC man on my boat.

[tony collins]

This question arises from a post of Johns:

 

'What bugs me is having to replace perfectly good extinguishers again' (paraphrased)

 

:

 

Am I the only one who has their powder extinguishers service every couple of years?

This has been perfectly acceptable to two different examiners. I have the required number of extinguishers for my boat, situated just inside the cabins doors at both bow and stern, but also a kite marked unit in the middle (near the galley) This is the wrong colour (i.e. blue) but this serviced alongside the others every time. It only costs about £15 to service the lot.

 

Is there any member of this forum connected with the fire brigade who can tell me why the apparently sensible colour coding was abandoned a few years ago? It was so easy! Red was a water type NOT to be used on electrical or oil fires, Blue was a dry powder which could be used (almost) anywhere, but didn't have the temperature reducing capacity of ther water type, and so on...

Now you have to spend time reading the label because they are ALL red - seems stupid to me.

 

 

tony

[bottle]

Likewise, if anybody has used a powder type they will know why.

 

I have, almost more trouble than their worth

 

 

So, if you had a small fire on your pride and joy that you could tackle, you would rather step off and let it get out of hand and destroy your boat before the fire service turned up? Just a thought.

 

No but of course it would be insured

 

If I thought it was small enough to tackle I'd give it a sniff of CO2. If I thought it was too big to tackle I'd run-boats can be replaced. Powder extinguishers are to appease the BSC man on my boat.

 

Agree

 

 

I do not think that boat fires are that common but because they are rare get reported more readily

 

Of course the 'towpath telegraph' being very efficient helps in this .

[Bones]

 

Is there any member of this forum connected with the fire brigade who can tell me why the apparently sensible colour coding was abandoned a few years ago? It was so easy! Red was a water type NOT to be used on electrical or oil fires, Blue was a dry powder which could be used (almost) anywhere, but didn't have the temperature reducing capacity of ther water type, and so on...

Now you have to spend time reading the label because they are ALL red - seems stupid to me.

tony

 

 

quite!! The last thing I will want to do when there is a possibility of extinguishing a small fire is to read the labels!!! Panic is enough without having the uncertainty of deciding where you are, what the fire extinguisher in that room is etc etc....

[iteldoo4me]

Having worked for a national fire extinguisher company for a number of years up to a couple of years ago,I can catergoracly state that a powder extinguisher,despite its highly travelled after mess effects,is not I consider something I would be too concerned about if I was attempting to put out a fire on my beloved boat,secondly,a fire extinguisher needs to be serviced annually to ensure its correct functioning when its needed,and although a business might need to have this expensive course carried out annually on their highly populated by under paid staff buildings,I dont personally feel the expense is required for a boat,when,by the simple moving of the head and eyes,one can see if the little arrow is in the green and fully charged area.A fire extinguisher will normally survive for about 15 years,and providing the pressure inside is maintained it will do its duty and work.As regards the change of colour of extinguishers to an all red I can only assume it was the work of some stuffy politician in his cigar polluted office in whitehall deciding on another tactic to confuse us all.

Edited February 28, 2006 by iteldoo4me

[bottle]

Every person on the boat should know where the extinguishers are and also which type.

[John Orentas]

The point is, if your inspector insists that your extinguishers are not compliant and gives you a semi logical reason why, you must buy another set.

 

There is an old expression in sea boat circles. 'The most efficient pump in the world is a frightened man with a bucket'.

 

A similar thing could be said of fire extinguishers.

[Hairy-Neil]

So, if you had a small fire on your pride and joy that you could tackle, you would rather step off and let it get out of hand and destroy your boat before the fire service turned up? Just a thought.

 

The difference between your house and your boat is that the house is static. The day your boat catches fire it might well be a mile or more into a tunnel. Fighting the fire could be the only means of staying alive.

 

I have first hand experience of a boat fire, a hire boat I was on a couple of years ago had a major electrical fault and the boat was filled with acrid smoke. Luckily boats also require another safety feature, a battery master switch and turning this off averted a major disaster on this occasion. The incident occured on the Trent & Mersey canal and our holiday ended there. A couple of hours later and we could well have been half way through Harecastle. You cannot have too many safety features.

[Bones]

Every person on the boat should know where the extinguishers are and also which type.

 

 

Absolutely! I frequently remind myself which are where and what they are for! I'm also in the process of sorting out a sheet for my crew members to get the hang of whenever they are around.

[nigel carton]

The difference between your house and your boat is that the house is static. The day your boat catches fire it might well be a mile or more into a tunnel. Fighting the fire could be the only means of staying alive.

 

I have first hand experience of a boat fire, a hire boat I was on a couple of years ago had a major electrical fault and the boat was filled with acrid smoke. Luckily boats also require another safety feature, a battery master switch and turning this off averted a major disaster on this occasion. The incident occured on the Trent & Mersey canal and our holiday ended there. A couple of hours later and we could well have been half way through Harecastle. You cannot have too many safety features.

Well there you go then, dam good reason for having a good set of fire extinguishers on board.

[Glennbrown]

The best fire estinguisher is in my opinion a CO2 estinguisher or better still a Halon estinguisher.(illegal except in aircraft (damages ozone)).

Dry powder compared to above is well down on my list!.

 

I use to work as volunteer fire crew which often involved putting out

simulated aircraft fires .One squirt of halon and anything burning is out.

 

Not easy to get hold of but seeing in action I would not be without-even

though illegal

 

Glenn

[Richard Bustens]

Is that ths same or simular stuff to the old carbon tetrocloride ones we used in the 60s

 

They were good and they cleanes the grease of the carpets as well.

 

I think they are now classed as carsonagenic

[Sir Nibble]

You cannot have too many safety features.

Quite agree, so long as they are safety features, carried as a well thought out precaution against sensibly assessed risk, not carried simply because it is safety equipment and must not be argued against.

How long before we cannot navigate a tunnel without hard hats, and are required to carry a life raft. What will happen when the health & safety fascists spot a lock in use, no railings! and a boater trotting across the gate with no safety line! Surely the people on the boat should have hard hats in case he drops that windlass!

[alan_fincher]

Quite agree, so long as they are safety features, carried as a well thought out precaution against sensibly assessed risk, not carried simply because it is safety equipment and must not be argued against.

How long before we cannot navigate a tunnel without hard hats, and are required to carry a life raft. What will happen when the health & safety fascists spot a lock in use, no railings! and a boater trotting across the gate with no safety line! Surely the people on the boat should have hard hats in case he drops that windlass!

And not forgetting that my mother-in-law considered the counter of the boat dangerous because there's no "fence" around the back to stop you falling overboard, whilst underway......

 

...... Ooops ! - There she goes

[Hairy-Neil]

Quite agree, so long as they are safety features, carried as a well thought out precaution against sensibly assessed risk, not carried simply because it is safety equipment and must not be argued against.

How long before we cannot navigate a tunnel without hard hats, and are required to carry a life raft. What will happen when the health & safety fascists spot a lock in use, no railings! and a boater trotting across the gate with no safety line! Surely the people on the boat should have hard hats in case he drops that windlass!

 

Workboats already have these issues as come under the HSE. Risk assessments and method statements are now a way of life for the likes of Friends of President, Narrowboat Trust and the Working Boats Project. There's talk of minimum crew numbers being compulsory too.

[Liverpool Boat Co Ltd]

On our fully fit boats, we normally fit a Fire Blanket in addition to the 3 extinguishers. This means that should you suffer a small kitchen fire you can use the blanket- causing a lot less mess and damage than an extinguisher.

[dor]

I thought a fire blanket was mandatory.

 

On my BSS last year, I had to get a new one as the one I had no longer had the right numbers on it. So I had to buy a new, identical, blanket, just to get the right numbers on the box.

[alan_fincher]

I thought a fire blanket was mandatory.

 

On my BSS last year, I had to get a new one as the one I had no longer had the right numbers on it. So I had to buy a new, identical, blanket, just to get the right numbers on the box.

It still is, (unless you don't have permanent cooking facilities)

 

"If permanent cooking facilities are present a fire blanket marked to indicate conformity to BS EN 1869, or to the ‘light duty’ requirementsof BS 6575, must be provided."

 

Alan

[DaveR]

Hi folks just catching up after a couple of days away.

 

The colour scheme on extinguishers was changed because of an EU directive. Our multi colour scheme, as was said earlier- easy to recognise, had to give way to the Euro norm of red extiguishers, where you had to have the presence of mind to read the lable. Now why do I thing our friends across the Channel were involved in that? The UK suggestion that Europe adopt the better standards we had were dismissed.

 

Servicing of fire extinguishers, I work with and around extinguishers on a daily basis. We have them serviced onboard once in two years by an independant company, who issue a certificate. At the other annual service we perform that ourselves. The only way to know if a fire extinguisher is going to work - is when you use it. Service it and you do not know it will work. Modern extinguishers with a pre-set nitrogen charge are good for 10 years under EU rules, they don't need servicing just checking that the charge is still in the marked sector. However the most important thing with these and any powder extinguisher, is to invert them and give them a bit of a beating with the palm of your hand to 'fluff' up the powder inside. Should be done at maximum 3 month intervals. The vibration from machinery (narrow boat engine etc.) compacts the powder in the bottom of the extinguisher and it can turn into a rock like substance, rather than the baking powder it usually is.

 

Have to agree with the folks who say "fire out first, clean up afterwards". In most cases it is knowing how to tackle the fire being the most important thing. I too have a CO2 for the engine room on the Bensham. It is piped under the boards from the firing position by the stern door. The fatal (sometimes literally) thing to do with a fire in the engine room will be to lift the boards. The flames will head for the fresh air and oxygen right where you are. Same with opening the bonnet of your car should there be a bonfire underneath.

 

Keeping the fuel shut off to hand is the important thing. Starve a fire of its fuel and the job is half done. Things like battery isolations should not be hidden away but on the surface. Isolation for the gas, yes there are the bottle valves but consider putting a stop tap closer to the oven or 'fridge. Diesel isolation, a valve at the tank is great until the engine is on fire and you cant get your arm in to turn it off. A simple trip valve with a remote activation close to the controls is an excellent addition.

 

Yes, thank goodness fires are rare. But I do consider the cost of extra protection or quality units is realy not worth deliberating about when it comes to safety.

[DHutch]

Good post there dave, i never knew about the power fire extiguishers needing shaking.

 

And i think your right about the isolation valves. We have a gas isolation valve in the galley area, which we turn off every night and another one for just the paloma (which stays off all duing summer)

 

 

Daniel

[Allie]

I witnessed first-hand how devastating a boat fire can be. A friend and I were in a very remote area on Lake Powell in Utah, more than 50 miles from the nearest marina. (The lake is over 100 miles long.)

 

A family from France had rented a huge houseboat for a two-week holiday. They were given brief instructions (in English) on how to operate the boat, but no lessons on what to do in the event of a fire. Well, one of them started a fire in the galley. Because the stove was on, the propane gas tank kept feeding the fire. They had no idea how to cut off the fuel supply. They were able to move the boat toward a cove and jump off as the entire boat was engulfed in flames.

 

We came around a bend and saw a huge plume of smoke, then we saw flames leaping into the sky. It was absolutely unbelievable how enormous the fire was. Being the only boat in the area, we immediately went to lend assistance. The family of 4, two adults and two children, were standing on a small beach in only their bathing suits. They barely escaped with their lives. They had no clothing, no shoes, no money, no passports. Everything went up in flames!

 

We called the police and once they arrived we took the family back to the marina. The marina owners gave them clothing and called their insurance company.

 

Not only should every boat have up-to-date fire extinguishers, but each passenger should be instructed how to turn off any fuel lines, especially propane-type gas used for cooking and heating.

 

Allie