Solid fuel in smokeless areas

[Neil2]

I was reading a thread on the liveaboard forum re the relative merits of different types of heating. I am particularly interested as I am considering the purchase of a boat which has one of those Kabola Old English diesel heaters. Our last boat had SF stove. One subject which wasn't discussed was the "anti social" aspect of solid fuel, and it occurred to me that there must be many parts of the network which are smokeless zones, or is there some exemption for canal boats? As we're spending some time this year going much further afield than our normal cruising ground (basically Leeds Liverpool) I just wondered whether this is a consideration and whether you need to keep smokeless fuel on board?

Also, I have spoken to a few marina owners who take a very dim view of SF stoves because of the effect on white GRP. I realise this isn't an issue for serious cruisers, but it made me feel a little more self conscious about using SF.

 

Is this a non issue?

[matty40s]

I was reading a thread on the liveaboard forum re the relative merits of different types of heating. I am particularly interested as I am considering the purchase of a boat which has one of those Kabola Old English diesel heaters. Our last boat had SF stove. One subject which wasn't discussed was the "anti social" aspect of solid fuel, and it occurred to me that there must be many parts of the network which are smokeless zones, or is there some exemption for canal boats? As we're spending some time this year going much further afield than our normal cruising ground (basically Leeds Liverpool) I just wondered whether this is a consideration and whether you need to keep smokeless fuel on board?

Also, I have spoken to a few marina owners who take a very dim view of SF stoves because of the effect on white GRP. I realise this isn't an issue for serious cruisers, but it made me feel a little more self conscious about using SF.

 

Is this a non issue?

 

In some areas you can burn smokeless with the wind going away from fixed habitations and they will still complain.

I always keep Taybrite in store for some city areas, but burn a mixture of Taybrite/Coal/seasoned wood when in more open moorings to ensure stove stays in longer and provides a more even heat.

[ditchcrawler]

I think you will find that as a boat that moves you are exempt, not sure about a house boat that does not move.

[Timleech]

I think you will find that as a boat that moves you are exempt, not sure about a house boat that does not move.

 

My understanding is that with a 'portable' appliance you might be exempt from having to use smokeless fuel, but not from rules about making excessive smoke. It makes sense anyway to do what you can to avoid antagonising the natives, though there are some people who are always looking for excuses to complain.

 

Tim

[Chalky]

I thought that the clean air act had a specific exemption for canal boats.

[nb Innisfree]

Anyway the number of boats using SF is insignificant compared to the number of homes with open fires when the clean air act was introduced.

[alan_fincher]

I thought that the clean air act had a specific exemption for canal boats.

 

Quite possibly not, it seems.....

 

44.—( 1) Section 1 (prohibition of emissions of dark smoke) shall apply Vessels.

in relation to vessels in waters to which this section applies as it applies in

relation to buildings.

(2) In the application of section 1 to a vessel—

(a) for the reference in subsection (1) of that section to the occupier

of the building there shall be substituted a reference to the owner

of, and to the master or other officer or person iii charge of, the

vessel;

( references to a furnace shall be read as including references to an

engine of the vessel; and

© subsection (5) of that section shall be omitted;

and a person guilty of an offence under that section in relation to a vessel

shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on

the standard scale.

(3) For the purposes of this Act a vessel in any waters to which this

section applies which are not within the district of any local authority

shall be deemed to be within the district of the local authority whose

district includes that point on land which is nearest to the spot where the

vessel is.

(4) The waters to which this section applies are—

(a) all waters not navigable by sea-going ships; and

( all waters navigable by sea-going ships which are within the

seaward limits of the territorial waters of the United Kingdom

and are contained within any port, harbour, river, estuary,

haven, dock, canal or other place so long as a person or body of

persons is empowered by or under any Act to make charges in

respect of vessels entering it or using facilities in it.

(5) In subsection (4) "charges" means any charges with the exception

of light dues, local light dues and any other charges payable in respect of

lighthouses, buoys or beacons and of charges in respect of pilotage.

(6) Except as provided in this section, nothing in Parts Ito III applies

to smoke, grit or dust from any vessel.

[Keeping Up]

Alan that applies specifically to dark smoke which is the sort of smoke you get from burning old tyres, etc. The ordinary smoke that you get from burning coal or wood is specifically permitted for canal boats, unless (AIUI) they are on an official residential mooring in a smokeless zone, in which case smokeless fuel must be used.

[koukouvagia]

Quite possibly not, it seems.....

 

 

Hmm. I don't think my epping stove qualifies as a "furnace" and my engine certainly doesn't emit "dark smoke". Mind you I reckon I may have fallen foul of these regulations if I'd still got the Seffle.

[Neil2]

Thanks everyone, it seems I haven't really got enough of an excuse to replace the diesel stove...

 

To be honest I hadn't given this a thought until these comments from the "smoke free marina" owners. Where I live solid fuel is making a big comeback, especially wood burners because of the "carbon neutral" argument, but I suspect city folk take a different view.

[Robbo]

To be honest I hadn't given this a thought until these comments from the "smoke free marina" owners. Where I live solid fuel is making a big comeback, especially wood burners because of the "carbon neutral" argument, but I suspect city folk take a different view.

 

Smoke free zones doesn't mean soild fuel free, just use smokeless fuel. Burning wood is different, you need the correct appliance for it to be "exempt". http://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/index.php

[bottle]

Smoke - less does not mean smoke -free.

[Guest]

I think you will find that as a boat that moves you are exempt, not sure about a house boat that does not move.

 

On the Trent after Beeston lock going North there are BW signs along the cut saying....

 

'Boaters - please note you are a in smokeless zone area' or similar words - first time I've ever seen them - if boaters are exempt why the need for these signs....

[Timleech]

On the Trent after Beeston lock going North there are BW signs along the cut saying....

 

'Boaters - please note you are a in smokeless zone area' or similar words - first time I've ever seen them - if boaters are exempt why the need for these signs....

 

Probably because some show no regard for others, with an 'I'm on a boat and exempt, so I don't care' attitude?

 

 

Tim

[Guest]

Probably because some show no regard for others, with an 'I'm on a boat and exempt, so I don't care' attitude?

 

 

Tim

 

But if boaters are exempt and you need to heat your boat what do you do??

[Timleech]

But if boaters are exempt and you need to heat your boat what do you do??

 

Use smokeless fuel, or seasoned wood, or at least fire your stove little and often rather than chucking a load of bituminous coal or old socks on in one go.

 

Tim

[Guest]

old socks on in one go.

 

Tim

 

My old socks would clear a neighbourhood without being burnt on a stove......

[Minos]

Our chimney sweep also does the chimney in the home of the man responsible for enforcing our local smokeless zone. He burns logs, too.

[Pete of Ebor]

Our chimney sweep also does the chimney in the home of the man responsible for enforcing our local smokeless zone. He burns logs, too.

 

It does depend to some extent on the stove itself. Certain stoves are permitted to be used in smokeless areas for burning wood, but the stove design has to have been tested and passsed by DEFRA for the purpose. I have a Morso Badger (next size up from the Squirrel) which is passed for burning wood in a smokeless zone. It can also burn smokeless solid fuel, [though I have never tried] but the instructions strongly advise against using "housecoal" - whatever that is.. I can only assume that this is because of the expectation that these stoves are designed be used in smokeless zones and it's the companies get-out clause just in case anyone gets caught burning coal in a smokeless zone.

[mayalld]

On the Trent after Beeston lock going North there are BW signs along the cut saying....

 

'Boaters - please note you are a in smokeless zone area' or similar words - first time I've ever seen them - if boaters are exempt why the need for these signs....

 

They are a bit like the signs asking you to show consideration by not running engines etc.

 

Basically, there isn't a damn thing anybody can do to stop you burning coal, but somebody has whinged to BW about boats burning coal, and BW has put a sign up that falls short of prohibiting something, but is worded so as to give an impression that something isn't allowed.

[TimD]

Even in houses in cities you can smell wood fires around the place, and I bet they are all open chimney fires. As I see it the smokeless laws were introduced in the fifties to counter the horrendous smog problems, but since the huge take up of gas/oil/electric central heating, coal/wood heating is no longer a smog issue. Modern smog is caused by the internal combustion engine. The laws are still in place top make sure that no individual takes the piss and that if wood fires do suddenly catch on the councils can quickly do something about it.

 

It seems odd to me that people are worried about wood stoves in NBs but not about the diesel engines/generators that they all use.

[nb Innisfree]

They are a bit like the signs asking you to show consideration by not running engines etc.

 

Basically, there isn't a damn thing anybody can do to stop you burning coal, but somebody has whinged to BW about boats burning coal, and BW has put a sign up that falls short of prohibiting something, but is worded so as to give an impression that something isn't allowed.

 

A bit like POLITE NOTICE outside some driveways.

[mayalld]

A bit like POLITE NOTICE outside some driveways.

 

Indeed so.

 

I always chuckle at them, thinking that if you have to headline it as polite, it clearly isn't sufficiently polite to be obvious.

[sebrof]

This last winter, which I spent in London, I was told that it was permissible to use ordinary household coal on the boat. Previously I had used only smokeless coal.

 

Never again. Household coal is nasty, dirty stuff, which creates far more mess than smokeless, and is of much worse quality. The premium you pay for smokeless is well worthwhile, in my experience.