crazy overpriced engine

[onionbargee]

Check out the re-built Lister HRW2 on feabay for £10 GRAND !! this guy is in cloud cuckoo land. I never pay more than 500 for these H listers, and a full rebuild is only a grand's worth of spares, including re-grinds.

Edited April 21, 2011 by onionbargee

[charles123]

It may be on the high side, the price of a fully restored JP 2 or 3 or LW 2 or 3 will be about £12k (or more) inc the gearbox and alternators and they are nicer engines and older too. I dont think it will sell for quite that but most of us have read the boat tests in the mags for trad looking boats with vintage engines that cost well over £100k so if £10k or £12k is spent on the engine, for that kind of boat it is not excessive in the overall spend

 

Charles

[by'eck]

It may be on the high side, the price of a fully restored JP 2 or 3 or LW 2 or 3 will be about £12k (or more) inc the gearbox and alternators and they are nicer engines and older too. I dont think it will sell for quite that but most of us have read the boat tests in the mags for trad looking boats with vintage engines that cost well over £100k so if £10k or £12k is spent on the engine, for that kind of boat it is not excessive in the overall spend

 

Charles

 

Hmm.. have a look here

 

BTW engine mentioned is a company sale - Tony Redshaw Vintage Diesels. His brand new Lister CS2 based engine may be a better buy at £8500 + VAT - see April issue Canal Boat.

Edited April 20, 2011 by richardhula

[Timleech]

Check out the re-built Lister HRW2 on feabay for £10 GRAND !! this guy is in cloud cuckoo land. I never pay more than 500 for these H listers, and a full rebuild is only a grand's worth of spares, including re-grinds. what a swindler !

 

'optimist' might be more accurate than 'swindler'

There is the option to make an offer, it looks from the pics to be a nicely presented engine, and no-one is being forced to buy it!

 

1971 does seem to be stretching 'vintage' quite a lot though

 

Tim

[NB Lola]

Caveat emptor

 

It's a free Market economy so I was told many moons ago

[RichardH]

There was a 2nd hand Lister Canalstar on for £1800 recently which was also 'optimistic'

[steamraiser2]

There seems to be a distinct lack of realism amongst some of the forum members over the rising cost of things these days. The re-manufacturing of any vintage engine is a time consuming and expensive business, especially if done properly with due regard to parts quality and manufacturer's tolerances. It's also true that the sought after types are becoming hard to find these days and dearer as a result.

 

For example to electric start fit a Lister JP from scratch will cost around £1500, mounting and supplying PRM260 is around £2k a go. Setting this against a commercial background it becomes very clear why a properly restored 2LW and box will fetch £10-12k. In a couple of years, once the current supply of South African Gardners dries up, you will see the price soar above £15k maybe up to £20k.

 

The Lister HRWs are not sought after at the moment but look out... £10k will seem cheap in a little while!

 

The days of the ten quid dumper motor are gone it seems.

Edited April 20, 2011 by steamraiser2

[Ally]

Hmm.. have a look here

 

BTW engine mentioned is a company sale - Tony Redshaw Vintage Diesels. His brand new Lister CS2 based engine may be a better buy at £8500 + VAT - see April issue Canal Boat.

 

He's certainly not cheap for anything...just bought all my control gearing etc from him for my Lister....ouch...a little more than I was expecting and he wouldn't consider any trade price reductions either, BUT very nice and will look gorgeous...don't think I'll regret it in the long run!

[Proper Job]

He's certainly not cheap for anything...just bought all my control gearing etc from him for my Lister....ouch...a little more than I was expecting and he wouldn't consider any trade price reductions either, BUT very nice and will look gorgeous...don't think I'll regret it in the long run!

But look at the amount of work that goes in to making such a thing of beauty..

[soldthehouse]

And the supply and fitting of a new prm 260 gearbox. It all tots up, I couldnt justify it or afford it to be honest but you pays your money and.........

[PaddingtonBear]

Compare it to a Beta 'tug' engine but not a National DM3

[Timleech]

There seems to be a distinct lack of realism amongst some of the forum members over the rising cost of things these days. The re-manufacturing of any vintage engine is a time consuming and expensive business, especially if done properly with due regard to parts quality and manufacturer's tolerances. It's also true that the sought after types are becoming hard to find these days and dearer as a result.

 

For example to electric start fit a Lister JP from scratch will cost around £1500, mounting and supplying PRM260 is around £2k a go. Setting this against a commercial background it becomes very clear why a properly restored 2LW and box will fetch £10-12k. In a couple of years, once the current supply of South African Gardners dries up, you will see the price soar above £15k maybe up to £20k.

 

The Lister HRWs are not sought after at the moment but look out... £10k will seem cheap in a little while!

 

The days of the ten quid dumper motor are gone it seems.

 

I think the OP is the only contributor to this thread to have shown a 'lack of realism', and my reading is that he wanted to have a pop at Redshaws for some reason of his own - in fact I'm a bit surprised that the mods let it pass.

Certainly no lack of realism in my case, though I still think that 10K is optimistic for an HRW2 but there's no harm in being optimistic

 

Tim

[MoominPapa]

I'm interested in opinions and experiences of gearboxes for old engines. Do most people who want an old engine also want a matching old gearbox, or is a modern hydraulic PRM (as in this case) seen as an advantage?

 

MP.

[Timleech]

I'm interested in opinions and experiences of gearboxes for old engines. Do most people who want an old engine also want a matching old gearbox, or is a modern hydraulic PRM (as in this case) seen as an advantage?

 

MP.

 

The thing with old gearboxes is usually lack of parts if they need repair or overhaul, or such parts as may be available will be expensive. The Gardner UC boxes are an extreme case, great boxes when in good order but hugely expensive to repair (as well as being physically huge by comparison with such as a PRM). Even when they were 'current', spares for the Lister Blackstone mechanical boxes were very pricey compared with parts for the engines to which they were bolted.

 

Tim

[Proper Job]

I'm interested in opinions and experiences of gearboxes for old engines. Do most people who want an old engine also want a matching old gearbox, or is a modern hydraulic PRM (as in this case) seen as an advantage?

 

MP.

The obvious one is that there isn't enough old gearboxes to go around to match up with converted industrial engines. As well as the need (in most cases) to have a 'marine' crankshaft to be able to mate with the gearbox.

 

The modern PRM gives a simple, reliable fix. They also take up a lot less space.

 

Some old gearboxes are 'robust' in their operation and take quite a lot of effort to operate (although I'm not sure how much that is in the setting up of them).

 

My view - I like to see a Brunton or it's like on the end of an old thumper, it looks more 'balanced'. That said, the PRM has been around a long time, can take a lot of abuse and is pretty much a fit and forget (apart from oil changes)

[steamraiser2]

As I'm in the "trade" so to speak I often have conversations with clients about gearbox options. My experience shows a 3 to 1 preference for a modern gearbox. I have recently removed a Blackstone from a JP2 which has been rebuilt with a PRM and done the same thing to a 2LW in preference to its vintage Twin Disc gearbox. On the other hand a client buying an FR2M wanted the Blackstone at all costs. Strangely Dutch customers will not touch a PRM at any price..ZF/Hurth for them or the peculiar Dutch open gear keerkoppelling boxes that resemble a signal box to operate!. No right or wrong of course it's a matter of taste or pocket I suppose. Strangely enough most vintage engine/PRM pairings run at speeds lower than recommended for reliable use by PRM. It's a testament to what a good gearbox they are that we never have any problems with them at all unlike ZFs Verdonk clank technik!

[onionbargee]

I think the OP is the only contributor to this thread to have shown a 'lack of realism', and my reading is that he wanted to have a pop at Redshaws for some reason of his own - in fact I'm a bit surprised that the mods let it pass.

Certainly no lack of realism in my case, though I still think that 10K is optimistic for an HRW2 but there's no harm in being optimistic

 

Tim

I have no beef with Redshaws at all, what do you want a forum were no critism is allowed ? You finished your post by agreeing with me!

[NB Alnwick]

As I'm in the "trade" so to speak I often have conversations with clients about gearbox options. My experience shows a 3 to 1 preference for a modern gearbox. I have recently removed a Blackstone from a JP2 which has been rebuilt with a PRM and done the same thing to a 2LW in preference to its vintage Twin Disc gearbox. On the other hand a client buying an FR2M wanted the Blackstone at all costs. Strangely Dutch customers will not touch a PRM at any price..ZF/Hurth for them or the peculiar Dutch open gear keerkoppelling boxes that resemble a signal box to operate!. No right or wrong of course it's a matter of taste or pocket I suppose. Strangely enough most vintage engine/PRM pairings run at speeds lower than recommended for reliable use by PRM. It's a testament to what a good gearbox they are that we never have any problems with them at all unlike ZFs Verdonk clank technik!

 

Now I think I might like the 'keerkoppeling' set up . . .

[onionbargee]

Hmm.. have a look here

 

BTW engine mentioned is a company sale - Tony Redshaw Vintage Diesels. His brand new Lister CS2 based engine may be a better buy at £8500 + VAT - see April issue Canal Boat.

Good on Redshaws for getting some listeroid cs's, but please remember that these are Indian manufacture and need complete rebuild prior to sale because the quality is shocking as shipped, casting sand in the sump and bearings, out of true gears, ect look at www.listerengine.com for some hair raising pics of the boys casting metal in sandals !

[churchward]

Good on Redshaws for getting some listeroid cs's, but please remember that these are Indian manufacture and need complete rebuild prior to sale because the quality is shocking as shipped, casting sand in the sump and bearings, out of true gears, ect look at www.listerengine.com for some hair raising pics of the boys casting metal in sandals !

That will be why Tony Redshaw does indeed strip and rebuild them to get them up to top spec and why he asks £8500 for one if it was as delivered from India it would be much cheaper.

[Timleech]

I have no beef with Redshaws at all, what do you want a forum were no critism is allowed ? You finished your post by agreeing with me!

 

Absolutely not, you referred to him/them before your edit as 'a swindler'. There's a world of difference between that and being optimistic.

 

Tim

[matty40s]

Redshaws have done some work on mine, it looks and sounds fantastic, gearbox is a velvetdrive, does the business, and now painted in Gardner grey and black, looks like a complete package with the engine. My engine made me buy the boat.....

[c c]

Looking at the proudly published location of the OP,

I wonder why any of us are bothering to respond.

 

Join the RPS (Redshaw Protection Society)

engineers with this knowledge and skill are

a dwindling breed that need tender nurturing.

[onionbargee]

Er, look at Fleabay item no. 110662867835, HRW3, Blackstone gearbox, + a 240 v alternator.....£2500, no further questions your honour.

[paddy r]

I have a hrw2 and 10k seems a strange price, but as someone who ran a landrover garage can i point out that anyfool can work for nothing.rates,elec.water even there bin is paid for by them(rates don't cover this).and if you are sitting on a box full of HRW2 parts ie exhaust manifold,water pump,ect that will be the box you have in the shed next to the one marked Pig flying 4 of,I'm sure Boldock will be only too happy to help you move these on.