Another Boat Fire

[Guest]

Very sad to see a persons boat in this state, but I concur with others in that nobody was hurt or killed, which is the main thing.

 

Boats are a higher fire risk than an average house owing to the vast amounts of timber used and other combustible materials. Most houses use plaster or plasterboard which acts as a fire barrier.

 

I do not wish to speculate as to how or why the craft caught fire, but it is important to remember that this is still quite a rare event. How many boats did not catch fire that day?

[jonk]

Very sad to see a persons boat in this state, but I concur with others in that nobody was hurt or killed, which is the main thing.

 

Boats are a higher fire risk than an average house owing to the vast amounts of timber used and other combustible materials. Most houses use plaster or plasterboard which acts as a fire barrier.

 

I do not wish to speculate as to how or why the craft caught fire, but it is important to remember that this is still quite a rare event. How many boats did not catch fire that day?

 

That is an interesting point - percentages, of live-aboard boaters and houseowners, who have had bad fires - wonder how the figures compare. Don't suppose there is any way of finding out?

 

John

[warwickshireman]

There is a British Standard for the installation of stoves on boats. So far as I know it is only recommended practice for new boats at this time but if you need to replace a stove in an older boat you might well consider following the recommendations. They largely refer to air gaps between the stove and the wall and materials used for the wall in the immediate area.

 

A common cause of fires in older boats is that the tiles surrounding the stove are simply stuck onto plywood and if they get hot enough this can ignite. Out of site; out of mind etc etc.

 

The standard is BS8511

[Chris Pink]

 

The standard is BS8511

 

It seems outrageous that a document relating to safe practice is not available free.

[Tim Doran]

library?

[nbfiresprite]

That's a new one on me! AFAIK if you break a gas pipe on a boat all the gas will come rushing out as fast as it can until the bottle is exhausted.

 

There is certainly such a device on household bulk storage tanks that shuts the gas off if the pressure drops below a certain value but these are not generally fitted on boats. They protect against catastrophic failure of a gas pipe but not minor leaks. Their main purpose though is to prevent gas appliances being used at below design pressure and scavenging the remains of the gas from a tank once it has run out of 'gas' in the liquid phase.

 

Mike

Its been a legal requirement on fishing boats over 30ft in length for many years. My own reg shuts off gas if there is excess flow.

 

auto shut

 

Firesprite

 

In the office

Edited April 12, 2011 by nbfiresprite

[larkshall]

Does anyone on here know the boat owner? I think he could do with some moral support.

 

Also presumably there will be some kind of report produced by the fire authority (How long?), if so how do we get one?. I think it would be invaluable if we got this and other reports and posted them somewhere on the forum in a 'library' This could also apply to other boat related disasters..

 

Many a time and oft I have had occassion to peruse the AAIB reports and findings in the past

[Liam]

Are my eyes deceiving me or is the solid fuel chimney still intact?

John

 

If you mean the rear chimney I'm guessing this is part of a back cabin stove setup, with the solid fuel stove being discussed being towards the front end in the forward/main cabin.

[RLWP]

The fire temp must have been around 1300 degrees C, For the steel to bend under its own weight.

 

<snip>

 

Firesprite

 

 

I'm curious, where does that information come from? For instance, most blacksmith work is at lower temperatures

 

Richard

[rjasmith]

It seems outrageous that a document relating to safe practice is not available free.

 

I suppose so but unfortunately this is true for any British Standard, many of which cover aspects of safety.

 

If you decide to build a boat to the RCD there are about 30 of them to comply with and each one has a price tag of around £100-£150.

 

The only alternative is to spend hours in a library (if you still have one) or be lucky enough to live where the local council still pays the licence fee to Brit Stds to let you access them from home via the library website.

 

Richard

[Proper Job]

..................

The poor boat owner may have got on the wrong side of the local 'never do wells' who may have torched the boat for what they see as fun. Most of us have had our mooring lines cut, windows broken and other things at one time or other.

 

 

Firesprite

Blimey!

 

I must consider myself as lucky.

[Ralph Claydon]

Last night i noticed that the boat had been pumped out and re-floated.The squirrel stove complete with Flu and Chimney had been removed,

also i think that the stove from the back cabin was taken out.

[David Mack]

There is a British Standard for the installation of stoves on boats. So far as I know it is only recommended practice for new boats at this time but if you need to replace a stove in an older boat you might well consider following the recommendations. They largely refer to air gaps between the stove and the wall and materials used for the wall in the immediate area.

 

A common cause of fires in older boats is that the tiles surrounding the stove are simply stuck onto plywood and if they get hot enough this can ignite. Out of site; out of mind etc etc.

 

The standard is BS8511

 

There's an article on the new standard in the May edition of Waterways World, which dropped through the letter box yesterday.

 

David

[rjasmith]

There's an article on the new standard in the May edition of Waterways World, which dropped through the letter box yesterday.

 

David

 

Yes - I thought that was quite a good abridged version of the BS 8511 CoP and gave almost enough detail for people to work to without actually needing to buy/read the whole document. As the CoP was published over a year ago I was surprised that it has taken so long for such an article to come out. I didn't realise that the date of "coming into effect" was as recent as March 2011 though.

 

I wonder if a magazine like WW has to pay some sort of royalty to Brit Stds if they provide as much detail as that.

 

I also wonder how many chandlers will start to stock the new (and expensive!) special insulated collars and chimneys (eg like the fairly horrible looking one Chilli Penguin have come up with).

 

I still can't see why it is necessary to have just 600mm of insulated chimney on top of a single skin flue pipe!

 

Richard

[nbfiresprite]

 

I'm curious, where does that information come from? For instance, most blacksmith work is at lower temperatures

 

Richard

 

The melting point of steel is around 1370 C, Between 1270 C and 1370 C is the point where steel changes state from

soild to Liquid. True blacksmith work is done at round 700 to 800 C, but you are hitting the steel with a large

hammer with great force. That why blacksmiths arms are so thick.

 

If you need more information just google 'Melting points of steel'.

 

Firesprite

[RLWP]

The melting point of steel is around 1370 C, Between 1270 C and 1370 C is the point where steel changes state from

soild to Liquid. True blacksmith work is done at round 700 to 800 C, but you are hitting the steel with a large

hammer with great force. That why blacksmiths arms are so thick.

 

If you need more information just google 'Melting points of steel'.

 

Firesprite

 

You'll find that steel is pretty soft down at the 600 degree end. In fact, it will bend in most peculiar ways on the anvil at a nice yellow heat. Drop by and I'll show you if you want

 

Blacksmithing is about skill, not strength. The muscle size comes from repetition of action, like any muscle building

 

Having said that, this boat must have got pretty hot to have bent the gunnels in. I was really surprised to see that.

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

This is quite the most badly burnt out boat I have ever seen.

 

The roof has simply fallen inwards as if it was cake icing.

 

The temperatures must have been immense.

 

Cath took these, not realising then that it was the boat referred to here.....

 

 

 

[Keeping Up]

I wonder if there were bags of coal on the roof, which would have added heat from the outside as well as plenty of weight ?

[Chalky]

It's interesting that although the roof is bent most ofthe aluminium window frames are intact. Aluminium melts at 659 deg so it must have been less than that.

[RLWP]

Notice also the fire damage to the hull around the front cockpit. I presume that is from the fuel from the petrol generator

 

Richard

[alan_fincher]

It's interesting that although the roof is bent most ofthe aluminium window frames are intact. Aluminium melts at 659 deg so it must have been less than that.

I'm always genuinely surprised in such cases that the steel can distort out of recognition, but still manage to retain painted areas intact.

 

Clearly what actually happens must be very complex.

 

I would not want to make any assumptions about the causes of this fire - usually it is obvious where the main areas affected are, but in this case the damage is so extensive I'd not want to hazard any kind of guess at all.

[Heffalump]

Don't blacksmiths generally work with iron not steel?

[Timleech]

I'm always genuinely surprised in such cases that the steel can distort out of recognition, but still manage to retain painted areas intact.

 

Clearly what actually happens must be very complex.

 

I would not want to make any assumptions about the causes of this fire - usually it is obvious where the main areas affected are, but in this case the damage is so extensive I'd not want to hazard any kind of guess at all.

 

It might have been a 'frameless' cabin, no steel beams but relying on glued timber battens for stiffness? I think that style would collapse more easily in a fire.

 

Tim

[Hairy-Neil]

Don't blacksmiths generally work with iron not steel?

 

Historically yes. Most blacksmiths today have to work with steel, as whilst wrought iron is still produced in limited quantities, the price is restrictive for other than the top dollar work.

[RLWP]

It might have been a 'frameless' cabin, no steel beams but relying on glued timber battens for stiffness? I think that style would collapse more easily in a fire.

 

Tim

 

Tim, seeing that Ace of Clubs painted on the gas locker hatch, is this an ex Clubline boat? Possibly quite old too with thin panels.

 

Richard