Never ending arguments about moorings

[luctor et emergo]

Will you all stop quoting the full OP post............. Over and over again.

 

That pisses me off more, than a bridgehopper on a 24 mooring.....

[Albion]

Well, I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition

 

Richard

 

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Roger

[Torquemada]

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Roger

 

We're always watching.

[Chris Pink]

I am amazed that I am even thinking of making this post, I hope it will be a valuable contribution, but on the other hand, it might equally be the horrible consequence of consuming too much wine.

I can’t, but probably should, stop now.

 

The popcorn thing is all very amusing but being serious for a minute, I came to the conclusion some time ago that these never-ending arguments are more often an inevitable and un-resolvable consequence of participants arguing about different issues rather than from different sides of a single issue and that’s why they keep regurgitating.

 

With a view to trying to make sense of the ‘popcorn’ thread about mooring abuses and find a simple way for posters to identify where they are ‘coming from’, I had a go at trying to simplify the issues (all-be-it after drinking a bottle of wine).

 

The first thing that popped into my mind (no pun intended) was a division between:

 

[1] How one owns and regulates ones ownership of a boat.

 

[2] How one uses the inland waterways.

 

Take issue [1] first, I can identify just 6 ways of owning a boat:

 

[A] Live aboard with legal ‘Residential Mooring’

Live aboard with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[C] Live aboard with ‘No Mooring’

[D] Continuous Cruiser

[E] Leisure owner with ‘Leisure Mooring’

[F] Leisure owner with ‘No Mooring’

 

I can identify (from what I read on this forum) just 7 different points of view.

 

[1] No one should live on the waterways but everyone should have and pay for a mooring.

[2] No one should live on the waterways but don’t care whether or not one has a mooring.

[3] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring or CC.

[4] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a legal Residential mooring.

[5] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type or CC.

[6] It is OK to live on the waterways provided one has a mooring of any type.

[7] If you can get away with it anything goes.

 

The only possible, (reasonable) combinations of these as I see it are:

 

A3, A4, A5, A6 & A7

B5, B6, & B7

C7

D3,D5 & D7

E1, E2, E3, E4, E5, E6 & E7

F2 & F7

 

From this ( by observing how few people one pisses off) I conclude that:

 

A’s only annoy those who think no one should live on the waterways.

B’s in addition annoy those who think live-aboards should have a proper legal residential mooring.

D’s in addition annoy those who think that CCing should not be an exception.

E’s can’t lose, they don’t annoy anyone.

F’s are on thin ice.

C’s are in deep trouble.

 

That just leaves the second of the two main issues, namely how one uses the waterways and that surely, doesn’t matter who you are, everyone can abuse visitor moorings, I doubt anyone would argue its OK to do so (except in special, reasonable circumstances) so on this issue at least, everyone is no doubt in agreement?

 

Joshua ( Prospective D3 )

 

I only did it for you Henk, perhaps we'll all understand his drivel this time.

[RLWP]

I only did it for you Henk, perhaps we'll all understand his drivel this time.

 

I'd have to read it first, and having the attention span of a goldf - ohh look, there's numbers on the side of this keyboard.

 

Richard

[carlt]

[sociable_hermit]

Where?

 

I'd have to read it first, and having the attention span of a goldf - ohh look, there's numbers on the side of this keyboard.

 

Richard

[RLWP]

Where?

 

Just here <Richard points>

 

Richard

 

enough nonsense for tonight, otherwise, in the blink of an eye, we will have people running around with a clipboard gathering BW asset numbers off horses

Edited February 9, 2011 by RLWP

[luctor et emergo]

I only did it for you Henk, perhaps we'll all understand his drivel this time.

 

;-)

[wrigglefingers]

;-)

 

I'm with you, Henk. I started to read, then I started to cough and then washing the kitchen floor seemed soooo much more attractive. I'd only like to say that his drugs are far more powerful than mine and can I have some please?

[PhilR]

 

 

When did their start to be a 'boating season' anyway? (When did BW start doing long peroid over winter stoppages and closures?)

 

In the 1960's there were regular winter stoppages that lasted from mid November to mid March. I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky now?

[Bob Blues]

The very worst thing (for me) is that it divides the boating community at a time when we really should be sticking together.

 

You dont mean the Judian Peoples Front?

 

Just a point as I'm new to all this,

 

If you are a CC and whist moving you get stuck on a stretch between two locks that are being worked on by BW how does the 14 day rule work. You can move a few feet does that count?

 

Also what about if you break down, say Engine goes Pop and you are stuck.

 

If You physically can’t move. ..er ?

 

Bob B

[canaldrifter]

No... the People's Front of Judea.

 

(Always) look on the bright side (of life).

 

As the road tester said in Hell Drivers when Stanley Baker asked what happens if something comes the other way.

 

 

Tone

[Ange]

You dont mean the Judian Peoples Front?

 

Just a point as I'm new to all this,

 

If you are a CC and whist moving you get stuck on a stretch between two locks that are being worked on by BW how does the 14 day rule work. You can move a few feet does that count?

 

Also what about if you break down, say Engine goes Pop and you are stuck.

 

If You physically can’t move. ..er ?

 

Bob B

 

Now from what I understand it depends how much notice you've been given. If BW have advertised the stoppage way in advance then you have deliberately placed yourself in the way of the stoppage and therefore have to pay winter moorings (ie sit on the towpath with no facilities and no security and pay the same rate as those with those amemities). If, however, it's an emergency stoppage that you couldn't possibly have predicted you're allowed to wait free of charge.

 

I'm not sure how much notice the purists will allow us though, and they seem to overlook the fact the BW never seem to stick to their own schedules.

 

Honestly, truthfully Bob - ignore the BS that is spouted on here. The cut is a very different place to this forum - thankfully

[David Schweizer]

In the 1960's there were regular winter stoppages that lasted from mid November to mid March. I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky now?

I was helping to operate a Narrowboat on the Southern GU in those days, and I cannot remember any stoppages of more than a few days in the 1960's. There would have been others, but the longest stoppage I can recall was Uxbridge lock when they closed the canal for about four days to change the top gates.

 

There were more than 20 pairs regularly working between London and the Midlands in the 1960's, and a six month stoppage would have killed that trade off immediately.

[deletedaccount]

Lady muck wins th thread. Please do a mega merge

[alan_fincher]

In the 1960's there were regular winter stoppages that lasted from mid November to mid March. I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky now?

That just doesn't sound right to me.

 

Certainly not my memory around where I live.

 

I would say quite the opposite - stoppages were timed to not last very long at all.

 

The idea that it takes maybe 2 weeks to regate a lock is surely a new thing - not how it used to operate.

[Strads]

Its a bit simpler than the OP suggests.

 

The majority who obey the rules (read them when they bought the boat and licence) resent the minority who think its OK not to be compliant (Pay licence fees to up keep the system the are using, Insurance etc ) and have having to pay for others who should pay, and if they did might reduce their licence fees ( in the land of uptopia)

 

As for moorings - CC-ing should be just that so that "others" when they arrive can find a mooring.

( as an occasional user I can "predict" what boats I will see where, even if i go towards Little venice twice a year ..

as they clearly make little effort to play the game, so to speak.

 

Oh and to keep the mood light.

 

Nobody expects a Spanish inquisition, and a comfy chair and a cushion.....

[weeble]

I prefer double D's

 

Have I got the wrong end of this thread?

 

 

Oh No! not another bl**dy thread about breasting up

[Strads]

Nudge nudge, wink wink...

[Naughty Cal]

Its a bit simpler than the OP suggests.

 

The majority who obey the rules (read them when they bought the boat and licence) resent the minority who think its OK not to be compliant (Pay licence fees to up keep the system the are using, Insurance etc ) and have having to pay for others who should pay, and if they did might reduce their licence fees ( in the land of uptopia)

 

As for moorings - CC-ing should be just that so that "others" when they arrive can find a mooring.

( as an occasional user I can "predict" what boats I will see where, even if i go towards Little venice twice a year ..

as they clearly make little effort to play the game, so to speak.

 

Oh and to keep the mood light.

 

Nobody expects a Spanish inquisition, and a comfy chair and a cushion.....

 

What if the mooring when you arrive is full of leisure users? Is that somehow different?

[Strads]

Phylis - no not at all. when you arrive you can normally difereniate the boats (but not every time),

 

but i'm making reference to the run into London and you get to recognise boats..

so you know that they are frequently on the same set of visitor moorings, and whilst I dont check them daily for 14 days, it appears that some are clearly staying there more frequently than that..

 

I am happy to breast up ( and generally have to in Little venice) and dont mind others doing the same.

 

but the point is that certain moorings that are 14 days or less get hogged.. and those that do it seem to be oblivious to the rules or that they might actually also apply to them.. a case of a small minority .. as in all circles of life, not just a boaty thing,

[PhilR]

That just doesn't sound right to me.

 

Certainly not my memory around where I live.

 

I would say quite the opposite - stoppages were timed to not last very long at all.

 

The idea that it takes maybe 2 weeks to regate a lock is surely a new thing - not how it used to operate.

 

I was thinking of the north west and Bosley locks in particular.

[jenlyn]

You know what? I think we ought to have just one CCers /continuous moorers mega thread, rather than constantly starting new ones.

 

Then everyone who wants to bicker and moan can do it in one place and leave the rest of us in peace.

 

looks a bit like sudoku to me . . . . dont understand that either

[Naughty Cal]

Phylis - no not at all. when you arrive you can normally difereniate the boats (but not every time),

 

but i'm making reference to the run into London and you get to recognise boats..

so you know that they are frequently on the same set of visitor moorings, and whilst I dont check them daily for 14 days, it appears that some are clearly staying there more frequently than that..

 

I am happy to breast up ( and generally have to in Little venice) and dont mind others doing the same.

 

but the point is that certain moorings that are 14 days or less get hogged.. and those that do it seem to be oblivious to the rules or that they might actually also apply to them.. a case of a small minority .. as in all circles of life, not just a boaty thing,

 

At the risk of repeating the whole circle again. What difference does it make if the mooring is full of leisure moorers or those who have overstayed? Either way it is full and there is no room at the Inn and you will have to go elsewhere.