Respect for fellow boaters

[Guest User]

Because of problems in the past being pulled off, I rarely use pins these days, except where I know that the bank is sufficientkly stable to take them, which is usually behind concrete edging. I had two heavy duty pins made for me by Brian Greaves when I was on the K&A, they are made of 1" round bar and are 30" long, and I use a sledge hammer to bang them in. Even so They were pulled through the ground on the K&A on several occassions, and one was actually bent under the ground surface by a boat speeding past.

 

My gast is flabbered ! .... Guess I've been extraordinarily lucky to date.

[RLWP]

My gast is flabbered ! .... Guess I've been extraordinarily lucky to date.

 

My experience suggests it depends on which canal you are mooring on. You'll be fine around our way, but need to take extra measures on the Southern Oxford

 

Richard

[furnessvale]

Maybe you need to look at how you are using your pins in that case.

 

 

 

So how do you moor to allow for water level fluctuations if not with slack lines fore aft and springs?

 

Or do you never venture of the muddy ditches as well?

 

If the lines and springs are correctly angled they will absorb considerable amounts of level flutuation without excessive slack.

 

As for rivers, only been on the Thames and Weaver this year (other than bits of the GU and S. Oxford etc) and I always find something more substantial than pins on rivers. Even on "muddy ditches" pins are an absolute last resort and I know one ex working boatman who refuses point blank to use them. When working, the boat was never unattended, apart from an hour or so shopping. Far too busy earning money for such malarky.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[saltysplash]

So how do you moor to allow for water level fluctuations if not with slack lines fore aft and springs?

 

Or do you never venture of the muddy ditches as well?

 

 

Tight lines will prevent snatch. Springs should be as tight as possible to prevent forward and backward motion.

 

If your on a waterway and expect levels to fluctuate then you have no opetion other than to leave some slack in the lines but in that case you wont be getting pulled backwards and forwards like on shallow canals, you will be bobbed up and down by wash so no amount of tight or slack lines will stop movement and and such you ensure that all items on board are secure. two different types of boating. Its no good comparing 1 with the other.

 

If we all follow the correct procedure we would have bow lines, stern lines, fore springs, aft springs and breast ropes fore and aft

[ymu]

Tight lines will prevent snatch. Springs should be as tight as possible to prevent forward and backward motion.

 

If your on a waterway and expect levels to fluctuate then you have no opetion other than to leave some slack in the lines but in that case you wont be getting pulled backwards and forwards like on shallow canals, you will be bobbed up and down by wash so no amount of tight or slack lines will stop movement and and such you ensure that all items on board are secure. two different types of boating. Its no good comparing 1 with the other.

 

If we all follow the correct procedure we would have bow lines, stern lines, fore springs, aft springs and breast ropes fore and aft

Water levels fluctuate on shallow canals as well as deep ones. We've found ourselves beached on the Tame Valley and the Oxford having moored up with no difficulty the night before. We only have a 2' draft.

 

The Oxford fluctuates a lot at the south end because it is fed by a river. It compounds the problem of being on a shallow canal because it's not always safe to tie up tight, and even if you do your lines can gain a lot of slack when the level changes. That and the soft banks is presumably why the South Oxford has such a bad reputation for speeding boaters; what you can get away with elsewhere causes a lot of problems there.

[Tam & Di]

My experience suggests it depends on which canal you are mooring on. You'll be fine around our way, but need to take extra measures on the Southern Oxford

 

Richard

 

It's good to see the thread moving from "blame the passing boater for going too fast", to "let's look at how I am moored, as it is not secure enough when boats go by".

 

Yes there are boaters who do go too fast for the prevailing conditions, but boats do have a right to move along the canal at a reasonable speed, and if you come adrift perhaps the first reaction should be "how can I moor up to prevent that happening again?". The ultimate solution might even be "Perhaps I should find a more suitable place to tie"

 

It is more productive to accept that some (many??) people boat at speeds faster than you want them to, and tie your boat more securely. I think there are people who actually like jumping up and shouting at passing boaters - it's just what they do - makes their day.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Tam & Di

[Scooby]

It's good to see the thread moving from "blame the passing boater for going too fast", to "let's look at how I am moored, as it is not secure enough when boats go by".

 

Yes there are boaters who do go too fast for the prevailing conditions, but boats do have a right to move along the canal at a reasonable speed, and if you come adrift perhaps the first reaction should be "how can I moor up to prevent that happening again?". The ultimate solution might even be "Perhaps I should find a more suitable place to tie"

 

Or have the boat lifted onto a hardstanding..

[Tam & Di]

Or have the boat lifted onto a hardstanding..

 

[Doorman]

It's good to see the thread moving from "blame the passing boater for going too fast", to "let's look at how I am moored, as it is not secure enough when boats go by".

 

Yes there are boaters who do go too fast for the prevailing conditions, but boats do have a right to move along the canal at a reasonable speed, and if you come adrift perhaps the first reaction should be "how can I moor up to prevent that happening again?". The ultimate solution might even be "Perhaps I should find a more suitable place to tie"

 

It is more productive to accept that some (many??) people boat at speeds faster than you want them to, and tie your boat more securely. I think there are people who actually like jumping up and shouting at passing boaters - it's just what they do - makes their day.

 

Surely, the OP's point was that the passing boater was not moving along the canal at a reasonable speed? Otherwise, he wouldn't have had the problems he encountered in the first place!

 

The ultimate solution might even be, to somehow teach these disrespectful selfish boaters, a little consideration for others on the canals or rivers.

[Tam & Di]

Surely, the OP's point was that the passing boater was not moving along the canal at a reasonable speed? Otherwise, he wouldn't have had the problems he encountered in the first place!

 

The ultimate solution might even be, to somehow teach these disrespectful selfish boaters, a little consideration for others on the canals or rivers.

 

I guess that reasonable speed is rather subjective - speed is not necessarily the major factor anyway, as some boats make more disturbance than others. Try looking at it from the other end - "The ultimate solution might even be, to somehow teach these disrespectful selfish boaters who are inadequately moored and like shouting at people, a little consideration for others on the canals or rivers. "

 

I agree that is not quite the OP's point, but the topic moved on from there rather.

[Doorman]

I guess that reasonable speed is rather subjective - speed is not necessarily the major factor anyway, as some boats make more disturbance than others. Try looking at it from the other end - "The ultimate solution might even be, to somehow teach these disrespectful selfish boaters who are inadequately moored and like shouting at people, a little consideration for others on the canals or rivers. "

 

I agree that is not quite the OP's point, but the topic moved on from there rather.

 

Yes it did and I was simply trying to bring it back to the OP's initial concern.

 

We too have encountered the type of boaters that you describe, leaving their boats loosely tethered, then when you pass at a reasonable speed, the bloody things bob back and forth like a fiddler's elbow. I wouldn't describe them as you do, but due to site moderation, I'll have to temper my temper!

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

Could this have been part of your problem?

 

Mooring up too tight causes the boat to snatch when other boats pass by.

 

 

It's good to see the thread moving from "blame the passing boater for going too fast", to "let's look at how I am moored, as it is not secure enough when boats go by".

 

Yes there are boaters who do go too fast for the prevailing conditions, but boats do have a right to move along the canal at a reasonable speed, and if you come adrift perhaps the first reaction should be "how can I moor up to prevent that happening again?". The ultimate solution might even be "Perhaps I should find a more suitable place to tie"

 

It is more productive to accept that some (many??) people boat at speeds faster than you want them to, and tie your boat more securely. I think there are people who actually like jumping up and shouting at passing boaters - it's just what they do - makes their day.

 

Why is it that when someone has a bit if a rant, probably to help let off steam cos they've just had a bad experience, and maybe would have liked a bit of sympathy, they are always assumed to be the ones in the wrong.

 

The OP said that they had been passed by numerous boats with no problem, both where they are currently moored, and in other places over the last year, because they had tied up as well as they could.

 

He complained that a single boat had gone past so fast it caused the contents of his boat to be re-distributed. No other boat had caused any problems at all, but this still seems to be his fault. Just maybe it was the passing boat in this case.

 

If he'd said "I keep having to pick up stuff off the floor every time a boat goes past", then I would think it's his fault.

 

I had resisted this thread after the first few posts, because I could see that it was going back to the usual "if your boat gets moved you tied it up wrong, or if you don't like movement get a house" unhelpful comments. Wish I'd kept off it now, I'm now feeling cross that some people couldn't take it at face value and just agree that there are occasional inconsiderate people out there, rather than turn on the OP.

 

Sue

 

BTW I got fed up so didn't read right to the end, so if others have said this before I haven't ignored you

[soldthehouse]

Why is it that when someone has a bit if a rant, probably to help let off steam cos they've just had a bad experience, and maybe would have liked a bit of sympathy, they are always assumed to be the ones in the wrong.

 

The OP said that they had been passed by numerous boats with no problem, both where they are currently moored, and in other places over the last year, because they had tied up as well as they could.

 

He complained that a single boat had gone past so fast it caused the contents of his boat to be re-distributed. No other boat had caused any problems at all, but this still seems to be his fault. Just maybe it was the passing boat in this case.

 

If he'd said "I keep having to pick up stuff off the floor every time a boat goes past", then I would think it's his fault.

 

I had resisted this thread after the first few posts, because I could see that it was going back to the usual "if your boat gets moved you tied it up wrong, or if you don't like movement get a house" unhelpful comments. Wish I'd kept off it now, I'm now feeling cross that some people couldn't take it at face value and just agree that there are occasional inconsiderate people out there, rather than turn on the OP.

 

Sue

 

BTW I got fed up so didn't read right to the end, so if others have said this before I haven't ignored you

This is a good and level reply, puts some perspective back into the post, well done for not "keeping off it"

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

This is a good and level reply, puts some perspective back into the post, well done for not "keeping off it"

 

 

Thanks that makes me feel better

 

Sue

[Doorman]

Why is it that when someone has a bit if a rant, probably to help let off steam cos they've just had a bad experience, and maybe would have liked a bit of sympathy, they are always assumed to be the ones in the wrong.

 

 

For a minute, I thought that I was isolated in that view!

Edited October 23, 2010 by Doorman

[jenlyn]

Why is it that when someone has a bit if a rant, probably to help let off steam cos they've just had a bad experience, and maybe would have liked a bit of sympathy, they are always assumed to be the ones in the wrong.

 

The OP said that they had been passed by numerous boats with no problem, both where they are currently moored, and in other places over the last year, because they had tied up as well as they could.

 

He complained that a single boat had gone past so fast it caused the contents of his boat to be re-distributed. No other boat had caused any problems at all, but this still seems to be his fault. Just maybe it was the passing boat in this case.

 

If he'd said "I keep having to pick up stuff off the floor every time a boat goes past", then I would think it's his fault.

 

I had resisted this thread after the first few posts, because I could see that it was going back to the usual "if your boat gets moved you tied it up wrong, or if you don't like movement get a house" unhelpful comments. Wish I'd kept off it now, I'm now feeling cross that some people couldn't take it at face value and just agree that there are occasional inconsiderate people out there, rather than turn on the OP.

 

Sue

 

BTW I got fed up so didn't read right to the end, so if others have said this before I haven't ignored you

 

well said!!! a good reply to a pompous remark . .

[ymu]

It's good to see the thread moving from "blame the passing boater for going too fast", to "let's look at how I am moored, as it is not secure enough when boats go by".

 

Yes there are boaters who do go too fast for the prevailing conditions, but boats do have a right to move along the canal at a reasonable speed, and if you come adrift perhaps the first reaction should be "how can I moor up to prevent that happening again?". The ultimate solution might even be "Perhaps I should find a more suitable place to tie"

 

It is more productive to accept that some (many??) people boat at speeds faster than you want them to, and tie your boat more securely. I think there are people who actually like jumping up and shouting at passing boaters - it's just what they do - makes their day.

That's an amazingly twisted interpretation of this thread.

 

Well said Mrs Owl.

[Phil Ambrose]

Why is it that when someone has a bit if a rant, probably to help let off steam cos they've just had a bad experience, and maybe would have liked a bit of sympathy, they are always assumed to be the ones in the wrong.

 

The OP said that they had been passed by numerous boats with no problem, both where they are currently moored, and in other places over the last year, because they had tied up as well as they could.

 

He complained that a single boat had gone past so fast it caused the contents of his boat to be re-distributed. No other boat had caused any problems at all, but this still seems to be his fault. Just maybe it was the passing boat in this case.

 

If he'd said "I keep having to pick up stuff off the floor every time a boat goes past", then I would think it's his fault.

 

I had resisted this thread after the first few posts, because I could see that it was going back to the usual "if your boat gets moved you tied it up wrong, or if you don't like movement get a house" unhelpful comments. Wish I'd kept off it now, I'm now feeling cross that some people couldn't take it at face value and just agree that there are occasional inconsiderate people out there, rather than turn on the OP.

 

Sue

 

BTW I got fed up so didn't read right to the end, so if others have said this before I haven't ignored you

 

 

Exactly!! yes what you said Sue.

 

Phil

[cotswoldsman]

I guess that reasonable speed is rather subjective - speed is not necessarily the major factor anyway, as some boats make more disturbance than others. Try looking at it from the other end - "The ultimate solution might even be, to somehow teach these disrespectful selfish boaters who are inadequately moored and like shouting at people, a little consideration for others on the canals or rivers. "

 

I agree that is not quite the OP's point, but the topic moved on from there rather.

 

I think shouting at speeding boaters is pointless as it achieves very little. I do however think having respect for fellow boaters is important and slowing right down is simply part of the theory of "treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself" So I presume you are happy to have your boat rocked all over the place.

[Jim Batty]

Not quite uprooted, because I put them back in.

 

"were the pins all the way in ?" Yes, I always do that

 

"some areas I've yet to visit are made of mud ?" Some of the Southern Oxford is pretty soft

 

And the boats there pass moored boats quicker than they do where we are on the GU. Mostly the privately owned ones from observation

 

Richard

 

That's interesting. We had some clown rip by us on the far end of a layby to a lock on the Southern Oxford a couple of weeks ago and pull our fully driven bow stake right out. Never had that happen before. It was a lunch stop so had only bow and stern stakes in though.

 

What amazes me is the imagination some people bring to such situations. When I suggested he could slow down a bit when passing moored craft, he told us it was our fault for mooring on the inside of a curve. And we were on a perfectly straight stretch! And, of course, he claimed he wasn't travelling too fast - and then attacked the lock's narrow bridged entrance at 30-degrees at something like 1800 revs, wash a-churning. Nice one.

[Guest User]

That's interesting. We had some clown rip by us on the far end of a layby to a lock on the Southern Oxford a couple of weeks ago and pull our fully driven bow stake right out. Never had that happen before. It was a lunch stop so had only bow and stern stakes in though.

 

What amazes me is the imagination some people bring to such situations. When I suggested he could slow down a bit when passing moored craft, he told us it was our fault for mooring on the inside of a curve. And we were on a perfectly straight stretch! And, of course, he claimed he wasn't travelling too fast - and then attacked the lock's narrow bridged entrance at 30-degrees at something like 1800 revs, wash a-churning. Nice one.

 

As I mentioned before, I've not had it happen to me, but given the speeds and bloody-mindedness required to achieve both this and the OP's experiences, if it did happened to me, I'm pretty sure I'd be at the hatch remonstrating too.

[ymu]

Anyone who doesn't believe it happens is welcome to go and moor up on pins on the Southern Oxford and experience it for themselves (they're welcome to try and find a free spot with pilings too). We've not had it happen elsewhere either.

 

If it's too much trouble to take your boat down there, have a day trip walking the towpath between Duke's Lock and Heyford and rescuing the boats that have been set adrift.

 

Wait until next season though. It doesn't seem to happen when the only boats on the move are liveaboards who don't have a schedule to stick to.

[Tam & Di]

I think shouting at speeding boaters is pointless as it achieves very little. I do however think having respect for fellow boaters is important and slowing right down is simply part of the theory of "treat other people as you would like to be treated yourself" So I presume you are happy to have your boat rocked all over the place.

 

Basically "yes", because I would expect to be moored in such a way that even the yob who rushes by at a zillion miles an hour will maybe cause annoyance, but not do any damage or cast me loose. There are various alternatives to a little stake and a bit of parcel twine in a gravel or mud bank, but they do take a bit of effort. My basic point was that the owner of the moored craft needs to think of boats which wish to cruise that bit of canal, and the blame is not uniquely apportioned to the boat that cruises.

[Doorman]

Anyone who doesn't believe it happens is welcome to go and moor up on pins on the Southern Oxford and experience it for themselves (they're welcome to try and find a free spot with pilings too). We've not had it happen elsewhere either.

 

If it's too much trouble to take your boat down there, have a day trip walking the towpath between Duke's Lock and Heyford and rescuing the boats that have been set adrift.

 

Wait until next season though. It doesn't seem to happen when the only boats on the move are liveaboards who don't have a schedule to stick to.

 

We were going to venture down that way next year and possibly moor up to see the sights. Instead, I think we'll just rip through and moor up elsewhere

[ymu]

Basically "yes", because I would expect to be moored in such a way that even the yob who rushes by at a zillion miles an hour will maybe cause annoyance, but not do any damage or cast me loose. There are various alternatives to a little stake and a bit of parcel twine in a gravel or mud bank, but they do take a bit of effort. My basic point was that the owner of the moored craft needs to think of boats which wish to cruise that bit of canal, and the blame is not uniquely apportioned to the boat that cruises.

We use pins with loops (to avoid losing them when they get pulled out), hammered in until the loop is pressing into the mud, with a second pin hammered in at an angle through the loop to provide extra support. We don't use a third pin on the centre-line because we once tried to rescue a boat that had done this but come adrift anyway - we could not get it back in because we couldn't untangle the centre line safely whilst balanced on the gunnel in unsuitable shoes.

 

The more securely we place the pins, the more likely it is that a bit of the bank follows the pins into the water. This happens a lot on the Southern Oxford, as has already been stated. The ground is soft, the bank is largely unprotected. Some spots have become unusable for mooring because so much of it has been pulled into the canal by passing boats the towpath is right on the edge. Other spots are still usable, but don't have enough space between the bank and towpath to prevent a speeding boater from pulling the remaining bank into the cut.

 

We were going to venture down that way next year and possibly moor up to see the sights. Instead, I think we'll just rip through and moor up elsewhere

There are pilings at Heyford, and usually a spot on the 48 hour moorings free - the 14 day ones are usually full. There are some pilings at Cleves, but you can't get a chain through them. There are some bits where people have left chains attached, and some holes that are usable - we usually try to attach one end securely so the boat can't travel even if one end is pulled free. Lots of pilings at Pigeon's Lock and often spaces. Some pilings at Emslow, but rarely free. Nice pilings outside the Jolly Boatman, and usually a spot available on the 48 hours if not the 14 days. Next pilings from there are on the approach to Roundham lock, but again, you can't get a hook or chain through them. There's a nice pole been planted there which we try to attach one end to. Next pilings are Duke's Lock, where there are never any spaces.

 

Go all the way into Oxford and there are vast stretches of good quality empty visitor moorings, mostly 48 hours, one 7 days.

Edited October 23, 2010 by ymu