We will remember them ... (BW)

[carlt]

The trick is to make non-boaters CARE enough about the inland waterways to contribute to, what is after all, a pretty nice experience.

Non-boaters do contribute to the inland waterways, though.

 

The boat and mooring tax is not the only source of income, for BW. The waterways are centrally funded, too.

 

Perhaps if the canals came under the control of the Department of Transport (or whatever it is called, this week), the Tow paths became formal ROWs, they bring back the right of navigation and those rights are enforced, in the same way as all the other public right of way are, there may be some more equitable distribution of funding.

 

The Canals are a huge transport network, for boats, pedestrians and cyclists, yet do not afford anything like the same respect and protection of our other transport systems.

[cotswoldsman]

Will the reply be - we don't pay to go into a park or walk in the country, why should we pay to use the towpath?

Sue

 

I don't know what the reply would be but I do know that in cities such as London and Birmingham cyclists and walkers use the towpath as it is easier and safer than the roads. Under present funding these people pay to use the towpath but maybe going forward local councils could contribute towards upkeep, and yea I know some already do but mainly only for upgrading towpaths. Ah just remembered the councils will have no money soon, back to The Big Society!!

[magpie patrick]

I notice some people are getting all gloomy and forecasting that canals will close, just a question, how bad do you think a canal has to get to close? As a kid in the 1970's we cruised much of the closed K and A, although admittedly not the locks which were way too far gone.

 

The L and L closed this summer due to a lack of water, BW may have many things in their gift but making it rain isn't one of them, and from memory closures due to water shortage are a lot less common now than they were in the 1970's mainly due to technology such as SCADA and widespread use of back pumping. The main problem on the K and A is lock gates, but individual pairs of lock gates are not that expensive and i really don't believe that any navigation will close for want of lock gates, and I also recall boaters going sround with planks and nails to fix lock gates themselves...

 

What I think is far more likely is that we will see some long term closures as we did in the 1980s when things go badly wrong at one location and BW simply don't have the money to put it right, for example, if Crick Tunnel collapses or one of those big embankments on the shroppie fails and needs £5 million to repair it, and the money isn't forthcoming for three years.

[carlt]

I notice some people are getting all gloomy and forecasting that canals will close, just a question, how bad do you think a canal has to get to close? As a kid in the 1970's we cruised much of the closed K and A, although admittedly not the locks which were way too far gone.

I agree and, though many won't like it, I loved the challenge of actually having to do on the spot maintenance, to carry on the way.

 

If it means the cut goes back to being a bit more "back to nature" rather than metalled towpaths with bowling green verges then I think it could be a good thing.

 

A charity (or any other type of organisation) dedicated to preserving the heritage, and keeping the pounds full of water can only be an improvement and, if it means the money is more focussed, on the core responsibilities, then I don't mind taking a strimmer and bow saw boating, with me, to do my bit.

 

BW has been wasting so much money, for so long, that anything should be an improvement, if the waste stops.

[Neil TNC]

I agree and, though many won't like it, I loved the challenge of actually having to do on the spot maintenance, to carry on the way.

 

If it means the cut goes back to being a bit more "back to nature" rather than metalled towpaths with bowling green verges then I think it could be a good thing.

 

A charity (or any other type of organisation) dedicated to preserving the heritage, and keeping the pounds full of water can only be an improvement and, if it means the money is more focussed, on the core responsibilities, then I don't mind taking a strimmer and bow saw boating, with me, to do my bit.

 

BW has been wasting so much money, for so long, that anything should be an improvement, if the waste stops.

 

I agee with you about self help, boating in the 1960's and 70's was all about that. It was all much more fun. Back then a mooring pin had more use as a lever to get the one rack working.

 

Yes, but will it?...there will be the re-branding excercise, the long drawn out hand over of power...the BWB Residuary Body...just look what happened when Railtrack was created (then destroyed).

[Laurence Hogg]

Go to page 7 of this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/24_09_10_bbcnewsquangos3.pdf

[Guest]

Go to page 7 of this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/24_09_10_bbcnewsquangos3.pdf

 

Civil Society Model - we need a new quango to monitor all this government babble speak.....

[Gunna Do]

The re-branding of a large corporate entity of the size of BW is an exercise that will cost a lot of money.

 

money? what whose money?

When a large company 're-brands' it usually throws out all the paperwork and forms relating to the old company name and spends a considerable amount of money in printing new. I would have thought that a simple sticker with the new details would suffice until the old stock was used up, thus releasing capital for more pressing needs. The same idea could be applied to vans, boats, dredgers, tugs, etc etc although of course it would need a woven badge for fleeces, overalls and the like. The savings could be enormous! I wonder if they will bother?

[Guest]

When a large company 're-brands' it usually throws out all the paperwork and forms relating to the old company name and spends a considerable amount of money in printing new. I would have thought that a simple sticker with the new details would suffice until the old stock was used up, thus releasing capital for more pressing needs. The same idea could be applied to vans, boats, dredgers, tugs, etc etc although of course it would need a woven badge for fleeces, overalls and the like. The savings could be enormous! I wonder if they will bother?

 

and I quite like the current BW logo too...

 

and of course the corporate black and white will have to go too..

 

Fluffy pink and blue perhaps...?

[luckyjack]

When a large company 're-brands' it usually throws out all the paperwork and forms relating to the old company name and spends a considerable amount of money in printing new. I would have thought that a simple sticker with the new details would suffice until the old stock was used up, thus releasing capital for more pressing needs. The same idea could be applied to vans, boats, dredgers, tugs, etc etc although of course it would need a woven badge for fleeces, overalls and the like. The savings could be enormous! I wonder if they will bother?

 

Re-branding why bother ? if we a are serious about sorting this mess out why not "british waterways" ladys and gentalmen its now a "charity" !!! da dar job done we have just saved millions right there no new logo,no new paperwork,no new signs & lots of much needed work on the ground

get rid of the fools at the top thow ! and think about who u make a trusty PLZ ow god PLZ lol

 

think about it "british waterways" kinda says it all realy like "national trust".

[mayalld]

When a large company 're-brands' it usually throws out all the paperwork and forms relating to the old company name and spends a considerable amount of money in printing new. I would have thought that a simple sticker with the new details would suffice until the old stock was used up, thus releasing capital for more pressing needs.

 

I suspect that the cost of purchasing and applying stickers is rather MORE than new paperwork.

 

Donations to registered charities can be claimed against tax paid.

 

Yes, DONATIONS can be so claimed.

 

A Licence fee is NOT a donation, and would be outwith the scope of Gift Aid.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Yes, DONATIONS can be so claimed.

 

A Licence fee is NOT a donation, and would be outwith the scope of Gift Aid.

 

There do seem to be ways around this. For instance The Eden Project seemed to have a way of claiming back the tax on the entrance fee.

 

Richard

[mayalld]

There do seem to be ways around this. For instance The Eden Project seemed to have a way of claiming back the tax on the entrance fee.

 

Richard

 

Yes, there are ways around it, but none that would apply here.

[Neil TNC]

There do seem to be ways around this. For instance The Eden Project seemed to have a way of claiming back the tax on the entrance fee.

 

Richard

 

With the Eden Project you are having an "educational experience", which fits in with the charitable aims of the Eden Project.

Of course we could try to argue that boating is an "educational experience". The NT do offer a 10% discount (on visitor licences) for NT members on the River Wey...but the NT is a law unto themselves and does not fit the standard charity model.

[Nightwatch]

Re-branding why bother ? if we a are serious about sorting this mess out why not "british waterways" ladys and gentalmen its now a "charity" !!! da dar job done we have just saved millions right there :)snip...

Do they have to re-brand. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Is it worth starting a thread 'suggesting' no re-brand require, as a sort of petition thing to send to BW?

 

Change the lot at the top or drastically reduce their financial reward. Presently this seems obscene.

 

Martyn

edit to add the peoples pay is obscene

Edited September 29, 2010 by Nightwatch1

[Tim Lewis]

With the Eden Project you are having an "educational experience", which fits in with the charitable aims of the Eden Project.

Of course we could try to argue that boating is an "educational experience". The NT do offer a 10% discount (on visitor licences) for NT members on the River Wey...but the NT is a law unto themselves and does not fit the standard charity model.

 

Visits to Historic Houses etc. were classed as Educational in an Act many years ago which allows the NT members to get free entry as a membership benefit which other charities cannot by law even begin to match.

 

Tim

[Lady Muck]

Do they have to re-brand. Doesn't make sense to me.

 

They will rebrand and waste a fortune doing it. Makes me so mad how our money gets wasted in this way.......

[Laurence Hogg]

And even if BW is abolished and something rises from the ashes, what will remain??

British Rail was sold off, yet today still exists!! Its chairman also earns 190K, -- err but it was sold off??????? Take a look at this and in particular the annual report: http://www.brbr.co.uk/

Is the real future for BWB? Retention of fat cats guarenteed even if they make a loss of 9 million.

[Neil TNC]

Visits to Historic Houses etc. were classed as Educational in an Act many years ago which allows the NT members to get free entry as a membership benefit which other charities cannot by law even begin to match.

 

Tim

 

AFAIK this was around the time of the National Trust (formed 1874) was fromed into a charity by the National Trust Act 1907? (Intersting to note that this Act sets the NT up as being able to be a navigation authority)

As you say, other charites can never hope to match NT benefits.

[landroversforever]

Make BW part of the National Trust?

 

<snip>

Perhaps if the canals came under the control of the Department of Transport (or whatever it is called, this week), the Tow paths became formal ROWs, they bring back the right of navigation and those rights are enforced, in the same way as all the other public right of way are, there may be some more equitable distribution of funding.

</snip>

 

Just look at all our byways. The number available is steadily decreasing. Slightest moan about something stupid, and the lane is closed. I could see this happening so easily to the canals.

[luckyjack]

Make BW part of the National Trust?

 

 

 

Just look at all our byways. The number available is steadily decreasing. Slightest moan about something stupid, and the lane is closed. I could see this happening so easily to the canals.

 

i think this is the most likely outcome those navigations with issues will be "closed until further notice" as the new BW strugle to maintain the core system and wilst i hate (no I realy hate) to say this any further canal retsoration work should halt as from now and those resources should be redirected back to the maintaince backlog of the core system ( i cant belive i just said that but i see no other option)

[carlt]

Just look at all our byways. The number available is steadily decreasing. Slightest moan about something stupid, and the lane is closed. I could see this happening so easily to the canals.

As a land-rover enthusiast and a former civil engineer, for a highway authority, I sat on both sides of that particular fence and I can tell you that, especially during the reclassification of RUPPs and BOATs, under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act the green-laning organisations were doing a convincing imitation of a flock of ostriches whilst the walkers, riders and cyclists were flexing their muscles.

 

I pleaded with my local clubs' ROW reps to gather evidence, to retain vehicular access, on RUPPs but the attitude was "Oh it will never happen."

 

Apathy, and irresponsible mud-plugging, has closed far more green lanes than over-enthusiastic council officials.

 

 

Edited to say: Possibly food for thought, for the waterways (in)action groups?

Edited September 29, 2010 by carlt

[Josher]

Make BW part of the National Trust?

 

Just look at all our byways. The number available is steadily decreasing. Slightest moan about something stupid, and the lane is closed. I could see this happening so easily to the canals.

 

Perhaps you will just have to combine your hobbies one day?

 

[seaandland]

Mr Evans sent out a memo a few days ago saying he hopes to raise about 5 million after 5 years and up to 17 million pounds after ten years in donations, if the govenment let B/W keep their property and still hand over about 50 million a year, then things will be ONLY getting worse,, slower

[magpie patrick]

This whole thing needs to be tackled very carefully, and the government and BW need to get it right. First off, the enabling legislation for this needs to tackle the powers the new agency, whatever it's name, has. Other charitable bodies with what amount to statutory duties have real power, the RSPCA for example can instigate prosecutions. It's obvious from many debates on here that BW actual powers are something of a grey area for most things, and this DOES affect both funding and their ability to manage the waterways effectively.

 

If they get this right a new body with real teeth can manage the waterways effectively and they will not go into decline, if the enabling legislation is the kind of Dogs Dinner that the more recent BW acts have been then it's ashes and sack cloth time for many waterways.

 

BTW, the National Trust had the Stratford Canal until, I think, 1981. While we must be grateful that they stepped in and saved that canal, we should also remember that they struggled to maintain it and breathed a huge sigh of relief when they were able to offload it.