Kelvin

[Heffalump]

Sentinel goes forward quite well too! Interesting you saying about length as the best boat I ever steered in reverse was when I had Usworth. It went exactly where you wanted it to - could almost do figure 8s in the marina (not that I tried of course!). It was only 33ft long but would go backwards as well as it went forwards. It was well ballasted and pivoted nicely in the middle.

 

Funny, I used to work for a hire fleet, reversing 66ft 12 berths down the wharf was a piece of pee, but trying to do the same with the 25 something day trip boats was very frustrating as the nose would always hang out to one side and the momentum would carry the boat round.

[koukouvagia]

 

Maybe we should set up a "Kelvin bottle" supporters group within CWDF for this important subject!

 

 

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I thought Kelvin owners might like to see my attempt at at making my own Kelvin bottle. I found this on ebay for a few quid – no idea what it was used for originally but it made an ideal body for the filler.

 

 

The rest came from bits and pieces I had lying around. It holds enough petrol for three charges of the carburettor and it gurgles re-assuringly.

 

[PhilR]

Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I thought Kelvin owners might like to see my attempt at at making my own Kelvin bottle. I found this on ebay for a few quid – no idea what it was used for originally but it made an ideal body for the filler.

 

The rest came from bits and pieces I had lying around. It holds enough petrol for three charges of the carburettor and it gurgles re-assuringly.

 

 

The Boat that koukouvagia Built has a nice ring to it. I'm sure it would make a great series on TV.

 

Well done. The finished bottle looks excellent.

[NB Alnwick]

The Boat that koukouvagia Built has a nice ring to it. I'm sure it would make a great series on TV.

 

Well done. The finished bottle looks excellent.

 

I agree - nice piece of work!

 

When can you take orders for the main production run?

[koukouvagia]

 

When can you take orders for the main production run?

 

What I need is a supply of brass shell cases - they'd make ideal filler bodies. The ones I've seen on ebay or in junk shops are either v. expensive or engraved with "trench artwork". I'll keep looking!

[RLWP]

What I need is a supply of brass shell cases - they'd make ideal filler bodies. The ones I've seen on ebay or in junk shops are either v. expensive or engraved with "trench artwork". I'll keep looking!

 

Got any contacts in Libya?

 

Richard

[NB Alnwick]

Got any contacts in Libya?

 

Richard

 

Decent undamaged brass shell cases are more difficult to obtain these days - largely due to the way modern firing mechanisms work and the legal restrictions on the sale of armaments.

 

In the days when I was involved with public house refurbishments, I used this firm for decorative brass tube - it is polished and probably lacquered but the lacquer can be removed for soldering:

 

Andy Thornton

[MtB]

I'll say the same as the others. Very nice piece of work. Excellent.

 

I have two shell cases in my shed that I bought for the same reason but they are a bit big, being 4" diameter at the base. I'm guessing the shell case you've used is 3" diameter?

 

The brass screw cap seems the hardest part to source to me. Do you remember where yours came from?

 

Mike

 

 

P.S. changing the subject, what size prop do you have on your K2 please, Jim?

 

P.P.S Is there an informal public register of Kelvin owners anywhere, i.e. a list of who own a Kelvin and what they have? I know Kevin Whittle runs the "Kelvin Register", but although I'm a member there seems to be no way of getting/keeping in touch with the other members. Maybe I'll start a thread on here for Kelvin owners to announce their presence (should they so wish).

[dave moore]

Hi

I'm happy to be part of a Kelvin Club....Resolute has a 1940 J3 fitted, which is a marvellous piece of kit. It was rebuilt in 1999 by Seaward Engineering in Glasgow and has done some 4500 hours since. Originally petrol start, a magneto problem caused conversion to glo-plug starting, which has been fine....just takes a little more cranking than petrol starting. Ticks over like a grandfather clock, plenty of grunt if needed. Lovely!!

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[koukouvagia]

 

I have two shell cases in my shed that I bought for the same reason but they are a bit big, being 4" diameter at the base. I'm guessing the shell case you've used is 3" diameter?

 

Yes. The genuine one I took measurements from was 3.5"

 

 

The brass screw cap seems the hardest part to source to me. Do you remember where yours came from?

 

My first attempt was simply a chopped off fitting and a brass end stop. I reckon it would have looked OK polished up and with the corners filed round. I then remembered I'd got tucked away an old greaser I picked up from some junk stall - can't recall where.

 

P.P.S Is there an informal public register of Kelvin owners anywhere, i.e. a list of who own a Kelvin and what they have? I know Kevin Whittle runs the "Kelvin Register", but although I'm a member there seems to be no way of getting/keeping in touch with other members. Maybe I'll start a thread on here for Kelvin owners to announce their presence (should they so wish).

I don't think there is. Good idea about starting a Kelvin Owners' thread.

 

What size prop do you have on your K2 please

The prop size on my K2 is 28 x 20.

[NB Alnwick]

 

>snip<

 

Good idea about starting a Kelvin Owners' thread.

 

We can do it on here as soon as Dan gets back to me with the OK

 

Unfortunately there will be no way of preventing the usual culprits from posting their inane comments or expressing surprise that anyone would be attracted to vintage engines but I reckon we are grown-up enough to live with that!

 

The prop size on my K2 is 28 x 20.

 

Can you please remind me how it performs? What speed do make through the water at tick-over? What size pulley do you use to drive the alternator?

[koukouvagia]

 

Can you please remind me how it performs? What speed do make through the water at tick-over? What size pulley do you use to drive the alternator?

 

I can't remember the diameter of the pulley, but you can probably work it out from this:

 

 

As for speed. Well, I'm not going to admit here how fast it is – but it's fast. On the Severn I've had the water lapping over the rear deck and I was giving some of the Phylis-type boats a run for their money.

 

However, in normal canal use it ticks along happily at about 150 rpm and doesn't disturb anyone.

I presume the thought behind your question was that with that size, going slow might be a bit of a problem. Here's a clip of Owl going slowly at Sutton's Stop:

 

 

(I've never had the nerve to round there at full tilt!)

The real benefit of this sized prop is that it stops the boat in a remarkably short distance.

[rjasmith]

And congratulations on your splendid "gurgle can" from me too KK!

 

I think I was among the earlier protagonists of doing one of these but as usual have dithered alarmingly in the wings and not done anything yet! (Apart from making a very nasty trial prototype out of old junk which does work but is only meant for principle proving).

 

I do like your much longer pouring tube. Did you do that for technical reasons or just because it pleased you aesthetically? What diameter tube did you use for the pourer and the "air break"?

 

Also did you get problems with the recharging of the bottom chamber when the can is returned to upright? My prototype used to airlock a bit when the top part neared empty. You may remember I found an additional air break tube inside seemed to help sort this but I don't remember the genuine can having this in it.

 

Did you take any photos of your early construction stages or perhaps have a sketch of your design you could share?

 

I managed to get a 3" dia shell case which is ready to do when I get one of those round tuits.

 

I have one or two very tatty old 2 gal petrol cans that are not worth restoring so my lid will be made from the brass cap assembly that I've already unsoldered from the worst condition can.

 

These petrol cans come up on eBay quite a lot and only for a few quid for the rough/common ones.

 

It took me a while to find a cheap 3" shell case on eBay. In the end I got one for under £10 which had been cut down in length so it's only about 6" tall now. Perhaps it was a piece of trench art once but the art went wrong!

 

Richard

[koukouvagia]

I do like your much longer pouring tube. Did you do that for technical reasons or just because it pleased you aesthetically?

I found the longer pouring tube worked much better than the rather spluttery smaller one I tried at first.

 

What diameter tube did you use for the pourer and the "air break"?

The tubes were all 8mm. It's just what I had handy.

 

Also did you get problems with the recharging of the bottom chamber when the can is returned to upright? My prototype used to airlock a bit when the top part neared empty. You may remember I found an additional air break tube inside seemed to help sort this but I don't remember the genuine can having this in it.

It's true that petrol won't flow into the lower chamber to recharge the bottle until the screw top is released. I think this is probably an intentional safety feature. If the bottle is knocked over after filling the carburettor, no petrol will escape because no petrol has been able to enter the lower discharge chamber. So I've not incorporated your "air break" idea.

 

Here's how the bottle was constructed:

 

 

You can see that after soldering the separator plate in position I went round all the joints with JB Weld to ensure an air tight fit.

[NB Alnwick]

I can't remember the diameter of the pulley, but you can probably work it out from this:

 

 

As for speed. Well, I'm not going to admit here how fast it is – but it's fast. On the Severn I've had the water lapping over the rear deck and I was giving some of the Phylis-type boats a run for their money.

 

However, in normal canal use it ticks along happily at about 150 rpm and doesn't disturb anyone.

I presume the thought behind your question was that with that size, going slow might be a bit of a problem. Here's a clip of Owl going slowly at Sutton's Stop:

 

 

(I've never had the nerve to round there at full tilt!)

The real benefit of this sized prop is that it stops the boat in a remarkably short distance.

 

Super video and a very nice boat! I think we will havbe to go for a bigger prop - and raw water cooling!

[rjasmith]

KK, Thanks for publishing your constuctional photo + info. I think I'll do it the same way then ie without my extra air break tube inside. I think BEngo was of the same opinion about this as a good safety feature.

 

Richard

[Martin Brooks]

I've got one but I don't use it. Reason being you fill it with petrol, use it, put it away in a hot engine room. The vapour then expands and pushes petrol out of the spout and all over the floor!

[MtB]

I've got one but I don't use it. Reason being you fill it with petrol, use it, put it away in a hot engine room. The vapour then expands and pushes petrol out of the spout and all over the floor!

 

 

This is an interesting point and, I think, a terminal problem.

 

I have been vaguely worrying about this too under the surface but had not yet crystallised it into a conscious thought.

 

Petrol containers, I observe, need either to have a vapour breather hole or to be vapourtight and physically strong. I arrived at the boat on a cool but not freezing day at the end of the long frosty period to find my green plastic one gallon petrol can puffed up like a balloon. This set me thinking I was glad I'd put it in the gas locker as I nearly didn't, thinking there was little risk in leaving it inside the boat in cold weather.

 

I think any petrol container needs to be vapourtight in order to prevent the highest and most volatile cuts in the petrol from evaporating away (causing starting problems), so therefore petrol containers need to be sealed, including gurgle cans. Either that or we decant the petrol back into the main container at after use. Hardly seems any point in having a gurgle can in that case does there? Might as well stick to my current procedure of decanting just the right amount of starting petrol using a nice vintage 1/2 pint Esso oil-pouring can.

 

Annoyingly photobucket seem to be having problems so I cant see my cross sectional diagram earlier in this thread of how I think a gurgle can is designed. Maybe screwed caps on the spout and air vent tubes would do the trick. easy to lose though!

 

(Edited to correct speeling mistakes and missing words.)

Edited April 14, 2011 by Mike the Boilerman

[Derek R.]

Primus stoves using paraffin all have a screw cap with a vent screw incorporated, might something like that be of use? Certainly expanding air will cause pressurisation, and any escaping vapours must be contained in a safe place. Leave the bleed screw closed on a Primus, and expect a real mess on return!

[koukouvagia]

I've got one but I don't use it. Reason being you fill it with petrol, use it, put it away in a hot engine room. The vapour then expands and pushes petrol out of the spout and all over the floor!

 

I think you're right to raise questions about the gurgle bottle. I suspect it was never intended to be used to store petrol because of the dangers mentioned. However, the Kelvin manual does talk about having to use more than one charge of petrol when starting in very cold weather. A gurgle bottle would be perfect for this purpose. There is nothing more frustrating than having to faff about with decanting some more petrol into a container (in my case a small sweet corn tin) - outside the boat to avoid spills in order to get the start on petrol a second time. I suspect next winter the gurgle bottle will come into its own.

 

 

I’ve just bought a couple of cheap brass shell cases on eBay so I’m going to make some more!

[LEO]

I think you're right to raise questions about the gurgle bottle. I suspect it was never intended to be used to store petrol because of the dangers mentioned. However, the Kelvin manual does talk about having to use more than one charge of petrol when starting in very cold weather. A gurgle bottle would be perfect for this purpose. There is nothing more frustrating than having to faff about with decanting some more petrol into a container (in my case a small sweet corn tin) - outside the boat to avoid spills in order to get the start on petrol a second time. I suspect next winter the gurgle bottle will come into its own.

 

 

I’ve just bought a couple of cheap brass shell cases on eBay so I’m going to make some more!

 

You Kelvin chappies make life difficult for yourselves. I have just been reading about the development of 'Champion' spark plugs. One type of these incorporated a small cup which, when charged with petrol allowed a slow discharge of petrol into the combustion chamber increasing the chance of easy starting.

 

Availabilty could be a problem as they were designed for WW1 engines. I will pass the publication (Stationary Engines) onto KK next time our towpath's cross.

 

Leo.