Obtaining a TV licence as a ccer

[larkshall]

The OP asked a perfectly simple question, has anyone actually answered it without discussing the merits or de-merits of TV?

[nbfiresprite]

(as you can tell, I have been through this, and I HATE them with a passion!!!)

 

(and yes, I know that Road Tax is known in this PC state as a "Road fund license", but it is a tax at the end of the day).

 

Point of Order Mr Chairman.

 

There is no such thing as a 'Road Fund License', It was replaced in the Financial Act of 1936 and replaced with the 'Vehicle Excise Duty' that year (VED has never been officially known as "road tax"), The Road Fund itself was finally wound up in the Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act of 1955.

 

Firesprite

 

On the Train home

Edited July 22, 2010 by nbfiresprite

[Derek R.]

Blackrose: Your observations regarding your TV watching in-law do not apply to all of those who watch TV, I'm sure you will agree.

 

I certainly do agree.

 

Ymu, if we were all alike, all agreed on the same thing, all lived in identical boxes, eating identical food, listening to identical music - how would it be better? Thoughts of a world filled with clones springs to mind - like opening a box of tin soldiers all marching to the same tune, jumping to the same orders. Vive la difference! Colour, changes, differences - all make the world a fascinating and diverse place in which to exist. It's when those seeking commonalities and who are in positions of power that cause most of the worlds troubles - greed for ultimate power over all.

 

Derek

[carlt]

The OP asked a perfectly simple question, has anyone actually answered it without discussing the merits or de-merits of TV?

Have you read the thread?

 

I answered the question in post #2.

 

Are we not allowed to continue a discussion, once the question is answered?

[timetraveller]

They scrapped the radio licence years ao.

 

 

yes they COMBINED IT with the TV licence

[Derek R.]

Vehicle Excise Duty it is, but the DVLA speak of TAX, go online to re-tax you vehicle etc. Have you paid your road tax? etc. Google for Road Tax and the gov website is top of the list. We know it's VED, but it's generally known as a Tax to keep your vehicle on the road.

 

And how much of the £50B collected in the various forms of tax applied in keeping vehicles on the roads, is used on the roads?

 

Oops!

 

yes they COMBINED IT with the TV licence

 

http://www.radiolicence.org.uk/licencetoday.html

 

Well, depends how you read it. The BBC radio broadcasts are said to be paid out of the TV licence fee. But I can hear a great many more stations than the BBC, and many of them foreign. Should I also be seeking the licencing authorities from within radio range and applying for a licence to listen? No chance.

 

Derek

[mayalld]

Point of Order Mr Chairman.

 

There is no such thing as a 'Road Fund License', It was replaced in the Financial Act of 1936 and replaced with the 'Vehicle Excise Duty' that year (VED has never been officially known as "road tax"), The Road Fund itself was finally wound up in the Miscellaneous Financial Provisions Act of 1955.

 

Firesprite

 

On the Train home

 

OI!!! Points of order relating to obscure points of the law are strictly MY domain.

 

(section 927(a)(iii) of the Mindnumbingly Trivial Information Act 1845)

[RLWP]

OI!!! Points of order relating to obscure points of the law are strictly MY domain.

 

(section 927(a)(iii) of the Mindnumbingly Trivial Information Act 1845)

 

He's right you know

 

Richard

[Speedwheel]

You do not require a TV licence to listen to a radio. I believe that a couple of years ago it was also ruled that you did not need to have a TV licence if you have a device capable of receiving digial TV but only use it to receive digital radio. (How do you prove it one way or the other?)

[Laurie Booth]

The BBC World Service is paid for by the Foreign Office.

[Derek R.]

Does that mean the FCO get a say in what you are told?

 

This was TV:

 

I well remember Kate Adie broadcasting from a rooftop (IIRC) bar seated at a table with a background view of Baghdad supping a cool glass, and saying how different the City was after Saddam had been depose. People were walking the streets in comparative clam, doing their shopping as we would in any other town, and sitting outside drinking their coffee. (She said).

 

Derek

[carlt]

Does that mean the FCO get a say in what you are told?

No, the funds are supplied as "Grant-in-aid" with no strings attached.

[WotEver]

You do not require a TV licence to listen to a radio. I believe that a couple of years ago it was also ruled that you did not need to have a TV licence if you have a device capable of receiving digial TV but only use it to receive digital radio. (How do you prove it one way or the other?)

Nope, that's wrong. If you have a device (could be a lappy with tuner card or whatever) capable of receiving broadcast TV programming (digital or analogue) then you need a license even if you never turn it on.

 

Tony

[Speedwheel]

Nope, that's wrong. If you have a device (could be a lappy with tuner card or whatever) capable of receiving broadcast TV programming (digital or analogue) then you need a license even if you never turn it on.

 

Tony

 

Well the TV licensing people seem to disagree with you.

 

They do not state that you need a licence if you have a device capable of receiving , only if you watch or record as it is being broadcast. The second link below seems to state that you do not require a licence if you have a TV but don't use it to receive broadcasts.

 

In the UK you do not require a licence to own a TV.

 

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/

http://www.radiotimes.com/blogs/509-doctor...d-a-tv-licence/

 

The 2003 Communications Act it states under definitions of use that you have to be "using it for receiving television programmes".

So if you are not using it to receive TV programmes as they are broadcast - then you do not require a licence.

[WotEver]

Well the TV licensing people seem to disagree with you.

 

They do not state that you need a licence if you have a device capable of receiving , only if you watch or record as it is being broadcast.

Certainly, it appears that they've changed the law here. I was wrong.

 

However, let's say you go to the shop and buy a new TV. The shop reports the sale to the authorities. The License Man comes to your door and queries why you don't have a license. You tell him that you never watch live TV.

 

Good luck with that one.

 

Tony

Edited July 23, 2010 by WotEver

[Speedwheel]

Certainly, it appears that they've changed the law here. I was wrong.

 

I was just about to say the same thing! I have been reading around on various sites and now think that maybe you are right.

 

I think there is possibly no 'correct' answer.

[Arnot]

Hi

 

 

Might sound like a daft question but how do I obtain a TV licence as a ccer please, being that I am officially "of no fixed abode"?

 

I don't want to end up being fined at some point in the future so I'd rather just do things right. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

Chris

I may just be totally wrong here but seem to remember looking into this topic many years ago when I used to sell car audio and it became possible to receive TV in your car. I don't remember where it came from but at the time there was an exemption for battery powered TV sets...

 

Discuss?

 

Regards

 

Arnot

[Derek R.]

I don't know about 'discuss', surely a check through the regulations as posted in No.64 should do the trick?

 

Derek

[Arnot]

I don't know about 'discuss', surely a check through the regulations as posted in No.64 should do the trick?

 

Derek

 

It probably would but...

 

Wouldn't it just be lovely if regulations were drafted in a way that made their intent and detail transparent!

 

So;

 

From Section 3(1)(a) of the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004

 

A licence (TV licence (including colour) General Form) - [should be obtained]

 

a - to install and use television receivers at the single place specified in the licence or, as the case may be, in the single vehicle, vessel or caravan so specified ("the specified location");

 

b - to install and use television receivers in any vehicle, vessel or caravan being used or occupied by the licensee or by a person normally living with the licensee at the specified location, being installation or use not covered by a licence described in Schedule 5, provided that a receiver may not be used in a caravan, other than a touring caravan, at the same time as a receiver is being used at the specified location; and

 

c - for the use anywhere of any television receiver powered solely by its own internal batteries by the licensee or by a person normally living with the licensee at the specified location.

 

It is difficult to see how "specified location" could reasonably be stretched to include anywhere at any given time as would be the case for a CC'er.

 

Sub section "a" refers to "install" without any defintion of the term in context

 

Sub section "a" refers to a "vessel" without any defintion of the term in context

 

Sub sections "b" and "c" refer to a "licensee" without any defintion of the term in context

 

If sub section "c" were to be taken at face value, everyone with a laptop or mobile phone with internet access would have to carry a licence.

 

So, do we interpret this to mean that if we own any piece of equipment that could possibly be used to watch television anywhere or in any way we have to have a license regardless of intent to actually do this?

 

Or do we take the regulation at face value and assume that because the television is not "install"ed, it is exempt and that because of this we are not "licensee"s and are thus exempt from sections "b" and "c"?

 

It is a can of worms isn't it?

 

Regards

 

Arnot

 

PS if you really want to read it, try this!

Edited July 24, 2010 by Arnot

[Bobbybass]

I have previously posted as I had a recent conversation with customer realtions...whe told me I don't need a home address for a license...I can just buy one by email and have it registered to a PO box or a friends house and they will make a note that is not the actual address.

I told them that when I winter the boat...around October....I go to Spain until springtime...and asked if I need a licenses for just 'owning' receivers...which will be on the boat...and not used.

THey said 'no'.....and I could pay for my license ( a one year one) on a quarterly plan by direct debit. They said that when I go to Spain... i can cancel this..although I have to pay to the end of the quarter...and do not then have to pay for a license while away . I can restart it upon my return.

 

Dealt with by James Morgan...Customer realtions dept.....Bristol... 0300-790-6030

 

Very helpful.

 

Bob

Edited July 24, 2010 by Bobbybass

[Derek R.]

Arnot wrote: It probably would but...

 

Wouldn't it just be lovely if regulations were drafted in a way that made their intent and detail transparent!

 

It certainly would. But such Acts are deliberately written in 'legaleze' to give reason for lawyers and courts to exist in translating into megabucks for the legal establishment our alleged misdemeanours.

 

Someone thought internally battery powered sets were exempt. They are not.

 

The "specified location" may be a place, caravan, or vessel. In the case of the latter two, it does not (as I read it) mean an actual geographic spot at any specific time. So whilst a "specified location" may be 'NB Jobsworth', the address for communication by snail mail can be a PO. The licence does not apply to the PO, but to the resident - 'licensee' - on 'NB Jobsworth'.

 

"Vessel" is most likely taken as that defined by a standard dictionary. The need to elaborate on what kind of vessel would lead into reams of paper describing all sorts of craft from coracles to aircraft carriers. Vessel does the job.

 

The "licensee" will be the person signing the application form, black red green or blue, six arms or multi tentacled, if it has signed - gotchya.

 

I would draw the attention to the Statutory Instrument Part 3, S.11 :

 

Meaning of "television set"

11. - (1) In Part 1 of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1967, "television set" means any apparatus which (either alone or in association with other apparatus) is capable of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service but is not computer apparatus.

 

(2) In this regulation, "computer apparatus" means apparatus which -

 

(a) is designed or adapted to be used (either alone or in association with other apparatus) for storing or processing data, but not for doing so in connection with the reception by means of wireless telegraphy of television programme services; and

 

[i cannot get rid of this smiley!!! It is typed as a letter b in brackets - honest]

 

( is not offered for sale or letting as apparatus for use (either alone or in association with other apparatus) primarily for or in connection with the reception (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) of such services;

 

and "processing" includes displaying."

 

'Computer apparatus' are not receivers of Broadcasts, but are able to receive data previously broadcast having been stored such as from websites like BBCi player, and are then displaying or storing said data. My emphasis and translation. Warning - I am no Legal Eagle, may contain nuts, contains small parts, could cause choking. Terms and conditions apply - No licence required, though it does appear ambiguous in its wording.

 

What I cannot fathom out, is where in all that diatribe of legaleze it states that if a licence is held at a place of residence - say a house - that no further licence is required for the house residents caravan or vessel. It doesn't say you don't - and it doesn't say you do. And if it doesn't say you do - then by default - you don't. Correct? Just the same as if a public road does not show 'No Entry', it is perfectly within the law to proceed along it.

 

A can of worms for the legal leeches.

 

Derek

 

Edit to remove rogue smiley and typo!

Edited July 24, 2010 by Derek R.

[WotEver]

[i cannot get rid of this smiley!!! It is typed as a letter b in brackets - honest]

 

( is not offered...

Leave a space after the B - like so:

(B ) is not offered...

 

Tony

 

What I cannot fathom out, is where in all that diatribe of legaleze it states that if a licence is held at a place of residence - say a house - that no further licence is required for the house residents caravan or vessel. It doesn't say you don't - and it doesn't say you do.

Actually, it does say you don't - somewhere - I read it recently. The proviso is that the two receivers must never be used at the same time. So if you leave your kids at home and they watch the telly while you're on the boat/in a caravan/motorhome/whatever then strictly speaking you're breaking the law.

 

Tony

Edited July 26, 2010 by WotEver